[DanaC]

I think that's more of an American thing: with people wanting tobe called African American instead of black.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I think that's more of an American thing: with people wanting tobe called African American instead of black.

That's not the case either. In my world and my household it has been black for as long as I can remember

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

That's not the case either. In my world and my household it has been black for as long as I can remember

I don't mean all black people in America. I just mean there was a move that came out of America towards the African American label, rather than black. I don't think it was a massive move, I just think it got a lot of airtime (primarily in the form of people having heated arguments and defending their right to continue to use terminology or defending their right not to have to continue to use terminology...:P

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I don't mean all black people in America. I just mean there was a move that came out of America towards the African American label, rather than black. I don't think it was a massive move, I just think it got a lot of airtime (primarily in the form of people having heated arguments and defending their right to continue to use terminology or defending their right not to have to continue to use terminology...:P

They do that alot though with Irish Americans and Italian Americans, seems to be less to to with colour and more to do with roots and where they originated from

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They do that alot though with Irish Americans and Italian Americans, seems to be less to to with colour and more to do with roots and where they originated from

And yet... by far the largest group to migrate to the USA was the English, according to the resource centre at Ellis Island. And yet no one ever hears someone described as an English American.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

And yet... by far the largest group to migrate to the USA was the English, according to the resource centre at Ellis Island. And yet no one ever hears someone described as an English American.

Yeah, that's true actually, I never even thought of that, I wonder why that is?

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, that's true actually, I never even thought of that, I wonder why that is?

because no one would ever want to admit to something as terrible as that

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

And yet... by far the largest group to migrate to the USA was the English, according to the resource centre at Ellis Island. And yet no one ever hears someone described as an English American.

The term Yankee originated from English settlers in the colonies although now it has lost it's meaning and tends to encompass all people from the states.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I don't get how you don't get it. Racism is a straight up choice between a black person and a white person the white person is picked every time no matter how good the black person is no matter how garbage the white person is. Its clear that Ron doesn't respect this philosophy and back in a time when there would have been little fuss he decided to put prejudices to one side and pick the best person for the job.

...he chose the best person for the job because he was good at his job and passionate about it more than anything else, I do believe that but that still doesn't necessarily indicate that he wasn't/isn't racist necessarily though..just that 'sense' of the better player overruled everything else for him..

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

That and far far worse was more than acceptable 30 years ago.

..but it wasn't acceptable 30 years ago though..maybe words terminology was used 30 years ago but it wasn't 'acceptable' then either...

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...he chose the best person for the job because he was good at his job and passionate about it more than anything else, I do believe that but that still doesn't necessarily indicate that he wasn't/isn't racist necessarily though..just that 'sense' of the better player overruled everything else for him..

To a racist , homophobe, sexist etc. Nothing matters more than their stupid little prejudice. I have an uncle who is a very religious 7th day Adventist fool and as soon as he hears the word gay he almost shuts down. I'm not joking. He such a homophobe that nothing else matters to him. Trust me. If Ron was a true racist he most definitely would NOT have played black players, no matter how good they were and no matter how sh*t the white players were. This happened in Basketball in the 1950's when Red Auerbach became coach of the Celtics and had to endure all the racism that came with him playing black players.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

To a racist , homophobe, sexist etc. Nothing matters more than their stupid little prejudice. I have an uncle who is a very religious 7th day Adventist fool and as soon as he hears the word gay he almost shuts down. I'm not joking. He such a homophobe that nothing else matters to him. Trust me. If Ron was a true racist he most definitely would NOT have played black players, no matter how good they were and no matter how sh*t the white players were. This happened in Basketball in the 1950's when Red Auerbach became coach of the Celtics and had to endure all the racism that came with him playing black players.

Great post. It says it all really.

[HBB1508]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

To a racist , homophobe, sexist etc. Nothing matters more than their stupid little prejudice. I have an uncle who is a very religious 7th day Adventist fool and as soon as he hears the word gay he almost shuts down. I'm not joking. He such a homophobe that nothing else matters to him. Trust me. If Ron was a true racist he most definitely would NOT have played black players, no matter how good they were and no matter how sh*t the white players were. This happened in Basketball in the 1950's when Red Auerbach became coach of the Celtics and had to endure all the racism that came with him playing black players.

Actions speak louder than words.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

To a racist , homophobe, sexist etc. Nothing matters more than their stupid little prejudice. I have an uncle who is a very religious 7th day Adventist fool and as soon as he hears the word gay he almost shuts down. I'm not joking. He such a homophobe that nothing else matters to him. Trust me. If Ron was a true racist he most definitely would NOT have played black players, no matter how good they were and no matter how sh*t the white players were. This happened in Basketball in the 1950's when Red Auerbach became coach of the Celtics and had to endure all the racism that came with him playing black players.

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

[lime]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

Well said Dana

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

Firstly I didn't define racism, I defined racism at its purist and I've used that term a few times. Making a silly comment is not pure/real racism pure/real racism involves some kind of power.

You're talking more about stereotyping in this post. Stereotyping/profiling is not real/pure racism cus there is no power involved and is much more prevalent that pure racism.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Firstly I didn't define racism, I defined racism at its purist and I've used that term a few times. Making a silly comment is not pure/real racism pure/real racism involves some kind of power.

You're talking more about stereotyping in this post. Stereotyping/profiling is not real/pure racism cus there is no power involved and is much more prevalent that pure racism.

The employer in my scenario had power.


Incidentally:

The definition of racism in Collins dictionary—

n
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The employer in my scenario had power.


Incidentally:

The definition of racism in Collins dictionary—

The employer was guilty of profiling.

EDIT: In your example you say an employer might given the job to black employer. No a racist employer would NOT give the job to a black person. So in your example the boss is not racist ion that respect but may well be racist in other ways.