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Niamh. · 01-11-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

Yeah, I agree with that 100%

Kizzy · 01-11-2013, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

He was using an example. I dont think he meant us to take his words literally.

Do you think all people are equally valuable?

That was the question, how can you not attach a literal interpretation to that, maybe it needs to be more specific as to in what way can you be considered 'valuable'?

GiRTh · 01-11-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do you think all people are equally valuable?

That was the question, how can you not attach a literal interpretation to that, maybe it needs to be more specific as to in what way can you be considered 'valuable'?

He does prefix the comparison with 'e.g' thus I think he's saying for example but if you want to take his words literally then that's up to you.

01-11-2013, 02:54 PM

All people have the potential to be of equal value. Not everyone chooses to, or is physically able to fulfill that potential.

Kazanne · 01-11-2013, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

no. some people are better than others.

some people are abusive assholes.

and i mean real abusive assholes, not just people who are annoying, i mean seriously abusive assholes who are evil and who hurt other people for fun.

100% this^

GiRTh · 01-11-2013, 03:01 PM

My reading of it was to compare someone who needs a lot of care and attention with someone who provides a lot of care and attention. Not to use the OP's example literally. And, in my post I am directly referring to someone who is able bodied but needs a lot of looking after cuz they are a complete waste of space and they choose to be a complete waste of space..

Kizzy · 01-11-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

He does prefix the comparison with 'e.g' thus I think he's saying for example but if you want to take his words literally then that's up to you.

Yes that was held up literally as an example the 'valuable scale', what other conclusion could be drawn?

Ammi · 01-11-2013, 03:03 PM

..I would like to say, yes everyone is equal..but no, I can't equate the 'value' of someone like a killer/paedophile etc with that of someone who doesn't commit actions to harm other people, let alone someone who strives to help people in any way...

GiRTh · 01-11-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes that was held up literally as an example the 'valuable scale', what other conclusion could be drawn?

Read my other post.

Kazanne · 01-11-2013, 03:11 PM

No,some animals are more equal than some scum.

Ammi · 01-11-2013, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

My reading of it was to compare someone who needs a lot of care and attention with someone who provides a lot of care and attention. Not to use the OP's example literally. And, in my post I am directly referring to someone who is able bodied but needs a lot of looking after cuz they are a complete waste of space and they choose to be a complete waste of space..

..I agree that I don't think the OP meant to cause any offence at all but was using an example...

...we are already 'valued' in that in an emergency/paramedic/medical situation...priority is given to some over others, and I agree with that completely...if there was ever a hypothetical situation when the population had to be 'culled' for any reason, then everyone would have a 'value' to the planet to decide that....

arista · 01-11-2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway

Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

Look at History
The Nazi's and Japan would say No.

And Nowdays a Doctor is more important than a MP

Disabled or Not Disabled that can be Civil or Rude
so its down to each person.

MTVN · 01-11-2013, 03:14 PM

I dont think people are objectively more valuable than others, its something subjective and people will have their own perspectives on how valuable others are based on their actions, their relationship with them etc

Kizzy · 01-11-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Read my other post.

Read my other posts.

Niamh. · 01-11-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

I dont think people are objectively more valuable than others, its something subjective and people will have their own perspectives on how valuable others are based on their actions, their relationship with them etc

Yeah, that's very true Matthew

user104658 · 01-11-2013, 03:17 PM

Who decides what's valuable, though? For example, to some, those in government supporting military action say, a high-ranking and effective military general would be of very high value, possibly irreplaceable. To an anti-war campaigner, he is beyond worthless.

This applies in most situations.

However I do find myself (shockingly?) Agreeing with lost Alex in this thread. A person who is for all intents and purposes "good" - kind, caring, good to their children, not an abusive arsehole - is of more value to the world than the opposite, regardless of what those people do for a living. A heart surgeon who saves hundreds of lives and then goes home and beats his family is worth far less than an economically inactive man who is raising his children in a caring, compassionate way. Because on a grand scale, it's people raising emotionally neglected children (and this sadly applies to a LOT of "high flying career" parents) who are doing the most potential damage to the world and it's future.

Redway · 01-11-2013, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verbal

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

Hence I said 'severely' and I was just using it as an example, hence the 'e.g.', for God's sake.

There are many different forms of disability, such as mental (along with physical). I absolutely was not simply referring to someone in a wheelchair but other forms of disability that do restrict general ability.

Nor is everything I say supposed to be taken literally. I'd expect you to be able to place it into context.

Lord almighty.

Ammi · 01-11-2013, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Who decides what's valuable, though? For example, to some, those in government supporting military action say, a high-ranking and effective military general would be of very high value, possibly irreplaceable. To an anti-war campaigner, he is beyond worthless.

This applies in most situations.

However I do find myself (shockingly?) Agreeing with lost Alex in this thread. A person who is for all intents and purposes "good" - kind, caring, good to their children, not an abusive arsehole - is of more value to the world than the opposite, regardless of what those people do for a living. A heart surgeon who saves hundreds of lives and then goes home and beats his family is worth far less than an economically inactive man who is raising his children in a caring, compassionate way. Because on a grand scale, it's people raising emotionally neglected children (and this sadly applies to a LOT of "high flying career" parents) who are doing the most potential damage to the world and it's future.

..I agree that children are often 'damaged' by their parents and their choices...if 'high flying' means in terms of placing children in residential boarding schools when it's not necessarily right for the child, which it isn't for everyone, then that can have long term damage and certainly contributes a childhood of unhappiness...but children can be damaged by parents, no matter their situation though...none more or less than others...