[Apple202]

i used to go to sleep in my bed then end up in my parents like every night until i was about 10 or so lol

[Ninastar]

i dont think it's right... i think kids need to sleep in their own rooms, never mind beds. especially at 13, that's just crazy.

[Apple202]

or maybe it was younger than ten hmm icr

[Kazanne]

13 is far too old imo,we have trouble getting our 3 year old in his bed but we keep trying,we really don't want the kids in the bed,not all night anyway.

[Ammi]

..it's surprising that a 13yr old would want to sleep in a parent's bed...I think it was around 10/11 yrs old when bathroom doors started to get locked and the boys began to be self-conscious of their bodies etc...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's surprising that a 13yr old would want to sleep in a parent's bed...I think it was around 10/11 yrs old when bathroom doors started to get locked and the boys began to be self-conscious of their bodies etc...

Well exactly, it's not "normal" and its not just because he's used to it and won't stop, things change as children approach adolescence and it would be normal for them to naturally start to want privacy.

The fact that he hasn't, and especially the wetting + aggression, suggests there's a much deeper issue with this boy than the simple fact that he has been bedsharing. It sounds like he has a serious fear of sleeping alone - and a fear like that isn't borne from "never having slept alone", its much more likely that he HAS slept alone and whilst doing so something has happened that's been traumatic and triggered this fear.

Like any fear really. Most people who are scared of flying for example, it's not because they've never flown. It's because one of the first times they did fly, something happened that terrified them (bad turbulence, scary crosswinds on landing etc).

Like I said, if a young child is scared alone and you just force them to sleep alone anyway, that's not going to solve anything, it's going to make it into a bigger and longer lasting issue.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well exactly, it's not "normal" and its not just because he's used to it and won't stop, things change as children approach adolescence and it would be normal for them to naturally start to want privacy.

The fact that he hasn't, and especially the wetting + aggression, suggests there's a much deeper issue with this boy than the simple fact that he has been bedsharing. It sounds like he has a serious fear of sleeping alone - and a fear like that isn't borne from "never having slept alone", its much more likely that he HAS slept alone and whilst doing so something has happened that's been traumatic and triggered this fear.

Like any fear really. Most people who are scared of flying for example, it's not because they've never flown. It's because one of the first times they did fly, something happened that terrified them (bad turbulence, scary crosswinds on landing etc).

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Toy Soldier,I keep saying this but your posts are really incredible.

I agree there seems like there must some likely serious issues with this 13 year old that as you say has them in no way wanting to sleep on their own.
We haven't got the full story behind this and that is why I would not say it is wrong.

You make a great point as to the flying too, I have a Cousin who will not fly because there was some engine trouble when she flew as a teenager,she has never and has stated she will nver, set foot in a plane again.
To gte her home after the flight that scared her, My Aunt and Uncle had to travel overland and bring her back on Eurostar.

Like I said, if a young child is scared alone and you just force them to sleep alone anyway, that's not going to solve anything, it's going to make it into a bigger and longer lasting issue.

The last part quoted separately above this comment of your post makes another really understanding and very strong point too.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well exactly, it's not "normal" and its not just because he's used to it and won't stop, things change as children approach adolescence and it would be normal for them to naturally start to want privacy.

The fact that he hasn't, and especially the wetting + aggression, suggests there's a much deeper issue with this boy than the simple fact that he has been bedsharing. It sounds like he has a serious fear of sleeping alone - and a fear like that isn't borne from "never having slept alone", its much more likely that he HAS slept alone and whilst doing so something has happened that's been traumatic and triggered this fear.

Like any fear really. Most people who are scared of flying for example, it's not because they've never flown. It's because one of the first times they did fly, something happened that terrified them (bad turbulence, scary crosswinds on landing etc).

Like I said, if a young child is scared alone and you just force them to sleep alone anyway, that's not going to solve anything, it's going to make it into a bigger and longer lasting issue.

...hmmm, I'm not sure whether there would have definitely been an 'incident' involved, obviously it's a possibility but it's also perfectly 'normal' for children to have fears of the dark/night time etc...'imaginary monsters'...?...but as they sleep in their beds, over time they start to realise that they're safe and those 'monsters' in their heads gradually disappear...if they never have had to sleep alone, then they haven't experienced that security of knowing they're safe other than the feeling that it's their parent/mum's presence that is keeping them safe..?..and as they get older and into adolescence, which is a very confusing time anyway, those fears could just increase so it's hard to dispel the 'monster', and that I think could well lead to real anxiety issues in their lives....

[joeysteele]

Toy Soldier, I haven't a clue what has gone on with the post above I just made above.

Clearly somehow it has got mixed up, I tried to bold your first part of the post, then reply with a comment after that for some reason it has come up with saying you said what I said.
I am confused.
It worked fine on the 2nd part of the post where I put in bold your last comment and then replied but for some reason on the upper one it has gone haywire.
I tried to edit it and sort it out but it won't let me for some reason, maybe a mod can sort it out for me.

Anyway,I agree with your whole post and think you made totally valid points in a
really fair, balanced and understanding post all through.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

i dont think it's right... i think kids need to sleep in their own rooms, never mind beds. especially at 13, that's just crazy.

Bang On Right
Ninastar

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmm, I'm not sure whether there would have definitely been an 'incident' involved, obviously it's a possibility but it's also perfectly 'normal' for children to have fears of the dark/night time etc...'imaginary monsters'...?...but as they sleep in their beds, over time they start to realise that they're safe and those 'monsters' in their heads gradually disappear...if they never have had to sleep alone, then they haven't experienced that security of knowing they're safe other than the feeling that it's their parent/mum's presence that is keeping them safe..?..and as they get older and into adolescence, which is a very confusing time anyway, those fears could just increase so it's hard to dispel the 'monster', and that I think could well lead to real anxiety issues in their lives....

It's easy to make that assumption but the opposite is usually the case - if a child is really, truly scared of monsters at night and his parents continue to put him back into that situation while he's anxious, it becomes a bigger and more serious problem. "Face your fear" doesn't really apply to young children, you have to be very careful as a minor fear can escalate into an ongoing phobia at these developmental stages. Phobias are linked to anxiety and adrenaline responses, in other words, they form when you are afraid, especially when that fear isn't quickly soothed. A serious fear of the dark / fear of being alone is very unlikely to arise from "never having to deal with it", it arises from being told to go back to bed to deal with it... being forced to "learn how to handle it alone".

Children who aren't denied emotional dependancy at a young age generally grow up to become more independent and emotionally secure than those who are "tiger parented" into stoicism. It's counter-intuitive, but it's just a fact of developmental psychology.

Forcing it encourages children to learn how to shut down or swallow emotions and fears - not how to understand them and deal with them rationally.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Toy Soldier, I haven't a clue what has gone on with the post above I just made above.

Clearly somehow it has got mixed up, I tried to bold your first part of the post, then reply with a comment after that for some reason it has come up with saying you said what I said.
I am confused.
It worked fine on the 2nd part of the post where I put in bold your last comment and then replied but for some reason on the upper one it has gone haywire.
I tried to edit it and sort it out but it won't let me for some reason, maybe a mod can sort it out for me.

Anyway,I agree with your whole post and think you made totally valid points in a
really fair, balanced and understanding post all through.

You're making me blush now joeysteele

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's easy to make that assumption but the opposite is usually the case - if a child is really, truly scared of monsters at night and his parents continue to put him back into that situation while he's anxious, it becomes a bigger and more serious problem. "Face your fear" doesn't really apply to young children, you have to be very careful as a minor fear can escalate into an ongoing phobia at these developmental stages. Phobias are linked to anxiety and adrenaline responses, in other words, they form when you are afraid, especially when that fear isn't quickly soothed. A serious fear of the dark / fear of being alone is very unlikely to arise from "never having to deal with it", it arises from being told to go back to bed to deal with it... being forced to "learn how to handle it alone".

Children who aren't denied emotional dependancy at a young age generally grow up to become more independent and emotionally secure than those who are "tiger parented" into stoicism. It's counter-intuitive, but it's just a fact of developmental psychology.

Forcing it encourages children to learn how to shut down or swallow emotions and fears - not how to understand them and deal with them rationally.

..no, I agree..'forcing' someone to face their fears and especially children can be very counterproductive but that's not what I meant..sorry if I didn't explain it properly... but usually and what is considered the 'norm' is for much younger children than adolescents to have time to realise that their fears and 'monsters' are imaginary and they can only do that by at some point sleeping on their own and realising that they're completely safe and that's with the guidance of their parents and dependant on the child as well as to how long it takes, it's a gradual process which could be reasonably quick or could take a long time...but if it's left until adolescence then it's going to be a lot harder and could create other anxiety issues as well...but I don't necessarily think there has been an 'incident' which may have caused fears...it is a possibility of course but with my own personal experience...'associations' if it was an association can be a lot more complicated and it might not be directly something that is associated to sleep or night time at all....

[AnnieK]

There's no book on parenting and no hard right and wrongs. You have to do what's right for you and your child. My son doesn't come into my bed unless we are watching a film...if he wants me in the night I go to hm.

[Ammi]

..yeah, I agree Annie, they are completely different..but I would be interested to know in this case ..(of the 13yr old..)..whether the parent has tried to address it or whether it's just been accepted and nothing has been done to understand what the child's fear are...I don't really know much about it...

[Kizzy]

I don't believe that bedtime should be such a traumatic experience,luckily my two enjoyed bedtimes, if you have a 'wind down' from 7ish. Milk and a biscuit, choosing pyjamas, reading a story, snuggling a teddy?
I think a lot of anxiety is projected by parents unnecessarily, personally I feel that kids need peace and quiet to rest correctly and having a parent there will just disturb them.

[Lee.]

Both of my children slept in a Moses basket next to my bed until the night feeds stopped then went into their own cots in their own rooms. I've never encouraged them to sleep in my bed but obviously there's been nights when it's been easier just to let them; bad dreams, illness etc.. I don't see anything wrong with children sleeping with their parents though, it just isn't for me

[Z]

I used to wet the bed every night until I was like 9 years old, my dad had to get up every night in the middle of the night to wake me up and take me to the bathroom so that I learned not to wet myself all the time. Pretty embarrassing now looking back but I had no explanation for it, as far as I know nothing traumatic happened to me in my childhood that would cause such a thing, I just don't have a very strong bladder even now as an adult I'm forever needing to pee, always break the seal really early when I'm drinking alcohol etc... Obviously the aggressive behaviour and seemingly being afraid to sleep alone suggests that the boy Jess knows might have had some kind of traumatic incident in his past that means he's afraid to be alone at night but it could just be that's how he is for no real reason. Either way it sounds like he needs help in getting over this - I don't think it's weird per se but he needs to get over this at some point...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

I used to wet the bed every night until I was like 9 years old, my dad had to get up every night in the middle of the night to wake me up and take me to the bathroom so that I learned not to wet myself all the time. Pretty embarrassing now looking back but I had no explanation for it, as far as I know nothing traumatic happened to me in my childhood that would cause such a thing, I just don't have a very strong bladder even now as an adult I'm forever needing to pee, always break the seal really early when I'm drinking alcohol etc... Obviously the aggressive behaviour and seemingly being afraid to sleep alone suggests that the boy Jess knows might have had some kind of traumatic incident in his past that means he's afraid to be alone at night but it could just be that's how he is for no real reason. Either way it sounds like he needs help in getting over this - I don't think it's weird per se but he needs to get over this at some point...

Read all about it!! Zees oversharing reaches a new high!!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

There's no book on parenting and no hard right and wrongs. You have to do what's right for you and your child. My son doesn't come into my bed unless we are watching a film...if he wants me in the night I go to hm.

Well, there are books on parenting, but unfortunately they're all absolute nonsense . Mainly because literally every child is different. I'm not saying every family should co-sleep, by any means, if a child is content to be on their own then there's obviously no issue. If a child isn't content then I'm not saying ignore the reasons or dont address them, just that forcing the issue will always just make things worse, it has to be a gentle process. It has to be about getting them to rationalise their fears and genuinely stop being afraid, not to get used to them or shut them off. Sadly, many children don't stop being afraid, they just learn to stop talking about it.

I maybe also wasn't clear that I'm not saying its normal for the 13 year old still to be in with his parent... Obviously there's an issue there. Just saying that the issue clearly runs quite deep and needs properly addressing, it's not caused by the fact that he slept there as a child. Something is stopping him from progressing from that point. I'd even be tempted to suggest he should be assessed for an Autistic Spectrum Disorder, but obviously that's hard to say from one snippet of information.

My own situation is that my four year old has no problems sleeping alone OR with someone there. I've been away overnight multiple times with no issues. She reached that stage with no encouragement at all aged around three. my 18m old isn't quite ready to sleep alone / with her sister yet, and the rest is just logistics.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that bedtime should be such a traumatic experience,luckily my two enjoyed bedtimes, if you have a 'wind down' from 7ish. Milk and a biscuit, choosing pyjamas, reading a story, snuggling a teddy?
I think a lot of anxiety is projected by parents unnecessarily, personally I feel that kids need peace and quiet to rest correctly and having a parent there will just disturb them.

I actually agree... they need to learn from a young age. its all about routine really. Getting them used to being alone at night (in their rooms) and if they are scared, have a few night lights or something.

i had a few nights where i genuinely was scared, but my mum and dad never let me in their bed and i turned out fine...

Well, maybe then there was a thunderstorm i'd be allowed, but that was reasonable... the thunderstorms in america were terrifying!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Zee

I used to wet the bed every night until I was like 9 years old, my dad had to get up every night in the middle of the night to wake me up and take me to the bathroom so that I learned not to wet myself all the time. Pretty embarrassing now looking back but I had no explanation for it, as far as I know nothing traumatic happened to me in my childhood that would cause such a thing, I just don't have a very strong bladder even now as an adult I'm forever needing to pee, always break the seal really early when I'm drinking alcohol etc... Obviously the aggressive behaviour and seemingly being afraid to sleep alone suggests that the boy Jess knows might have had some kind of traumatic incident in his past that means he's afraid to be alone at night but it could just be that's how he is for no real reason. Either way it sounds like he needs help in getting over this - I don't think it's weird per se but he needs to get over this at some point...

Bed wetting by itself is an interesting one (if that's the word??) - it's actually a chemical / hormonal thing and not usually a literal "weak bladder". Basically theres a chemical "trigger" that tells your body to wake up if you need to pee and in some people that's absent or takes longer to develop. Possibly useless information but I found it fascinating!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well, there are books on parenting, but unfortunately they're all absolute nonsense . Mainly because literally every child is different. I'm not saying every family should co-sleep, by any means, if a child is content to be on their own then there's obviously no issue. If a child isn't content then I'm not saying ignore the reasons or dont address them, just that forcing the issue will always just make things worse, it has to be a gentle process. It has to be about getting them to rationalise their fears and genuinely stop being afraid, not to get used to them or shut them off. Sadly, many children don't stop being afraid, they just learn to stop talking about it.

I maybe also wasn't clear that I'm not saying its normal for the 13 year old still to be in with his parent... Obviously there's an issue there. Just saying that the issue clearly runs quite deep and needs properly addressing, it's not caused by the fact that he slept there as a child. Something is stopping him from progressing from that point. I'd even be tempted to suggest he should be assessed for an Autistic Spectrum Disorder, but obviously that's hard to say from one snippet of information.

My own situation is that my four year old has no problems sleeping alone OR with someone there. I've been away overnight multiple times with no issues. She reached that stage with no encouragement at all aged around three. my 18m old isn't quite ready to sleep alone / with her sister yet, and the rest is just logistics.

I'm surprised you think they're nonsense as you actually sound like you've written one haha!
Where does co-sleeping end, and how does it begin? One whingy night wouldn't make me think this child and any subsequent children never want to sleep alone.

[Cherie]

People do what is best for them and that is fine. Everyone is different, my boys 15 and 17 r are both skinny and tall with no muscles but has no problem walking from the shower to the bedroom in their bare ass, no issues with self conciousness at all, a 13 year old wetting the bed and being aggressive does suggest there is more to it, but maybe it is something as simple as being afraid of the dark, the Mum needs to try and find the reason for it, rather than ignoring it.

[Kizzy]

Haha, I bet that's a shock if you happen to be walking past my lad keeps his grundies on just in case
Just wait TS you might be welcome in their domain now, but in a few years it will be GERRRRROOOOOOUUUUUUTTTT!!!!!!!! *SLAM*