[Christmas Dynasnow]

I think if I was going to believe in an almighty power that made the known universe I would want it to perhaps step in a bit before in this scenario, maybe before she was raped?

And i wonder if the 20,000 children that will die today from hunger and preventable disease will see an image of Jesus as they gasp for their last breath?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think if I was going to believe in an almighty power that made the known universe I would want it to perhaps step in a bit before in this scenario, maybe before she was raped?

And i wonder if the 20,000 children that will die today from hunger and preventable disease will see an image of Jesus as they gasp for their last breath?

Yeah exactly.

My own opinion on it is that it was her minds way of coping and getting her through the awful situation she was in. The mind is a very powerful thing, she may not have had hallucinations before but she was probably never in such a traumatic situation before that either

[Kyle]

I've known a few girls who have had themselves forced upon and although they live life again, laugh again and generally are just everyday people the scars are always there and it's a horrible thing to have to know that someone's whole view on life has been forever tainted because one despicable human being decided to put his filthy needs above the rights of another.

My view is like others on here, she conjured it up as a way to deal with the incident at hand and that's all there is to it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah exactly.

My own opinion on it is that it was her minds way of coping and getting her through the awful situation she was in. The mind is a very powerful thing, she may not have had hallucinations before but she was probably never in such a traumatic situation before that either

A valid viewpoint Niamh, one which I have examined myself, but according to Stephanie herself, who is very grounded and rational, it was neither hallucination nor illusion. And why Christ? Given that she was Atheist? Why not Richard Dawkins, or Buddha, or Allah?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A valid viewpoint Niamh, one which I have examined myself, but according to Stephanie herself, who is very grounded and rational, it was neither hallucination nor illusion. And why Christ? Given that she was Atheist? Why not Richard Dawkins, or Buddha, or Allah?

Why would Richard Dawkins turn up in a vision? He's a person like you and me.

And I'm sure it would have been Buddha or Allah, if she lived in a different location in the world where those religions were prevalent.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Why would Richard Dawkins turn up in a vision? He's a person like you and me.

And I'm sure it would have been Buddha or Allah, if she lived in a different location in the world where those religions were prevalent.

She hails from Birmingham Kyle.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

She hails from Birmingham Kyle.

Christian country.

And her name doesn't strike me as very Islamic. It's most likely she has a Christian background.

If this happened in Cairo or Istanbul would it have been Jesus? Doubt it very much.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Christian country.

And her name doesn't strike me as very Islamic. It's most likely she has a Christian background.

If this happened in Cairo or Istanbul would it have been Jesus? Doubt it very much.

Eeeeeeeexactly

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A valid viewpoint Niamh, one which I have examined myself, but according to Stephanie herself, who is very grounded and rational, it was neither hallucination nor illusion. And why Christ? Given that she was Atheist? Why not Richard Dawkins, or Buddha, or Allah?

How could Stephanie know for sure if it was a hallucination or not? Her being a very grounded person in normal circumstances is irrelevant, she was not in a "normal" situation. Richard Dawkins is still alive for a start lol and has never claimed to be a God who was going to save all our souls so why would, when her mind was looking for a saviour an "anti saviour of the world believer" appear to her?

As for why Christ and not Buddha or Allah? I would imagine it's probably a geographical thing(I'm guessing by her name that she wasn't from a country where Muslimism or Buddhism is the most common religion) and the "God" who would be most familiar to her Also, Buddha wasn't even a "God" as far as I know

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How could Stephanie know for sure if it was a hallucination or not? Her being a very grounded person in normal circumstances is irrelevant, she was not in a "normal" situation. Richard Dawkins is still alive for a start lol and has never claimed to be a God who was going to save all our souls so why would, when her mind was looking for a saviour an "anti saviour of the world believer" appear to her?

As for why Christ and not Buddha or Allah? I would imagine it's probably a geographical thing(I'm guessing by her name that she wasn't from a country where Muslimism or Buddhism is the most common religion) and the "God" who would be most familiar to her Also, Buddha wasn't even a "God" as far as I know

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

Why on Earth would anyone, athiest or not find some sort of comfort from conjuring up Richard Dawkins? Besides the fact that he's still alive, he's not someone who your mind would think of to draw any sort of comfort from? My last post was a joke but it does apply here, What would he appear to tell her? "Congratulations Stephanie you were right, there is no God, If there was why would he let this horrible thing happen to you? Well, I'm off to rub salt in some Christian kidnappees wounds now, see ya later!"

"Stephanie" doesn't sound like a very Muslim name, England is a Christian country If she had seen "Allah" would you be sitting here saying why not Jesus, it must be true?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

It is improbable. I don't see other masses of rape victims turning to Jesus. What we have here is a single testimony of a lady under extreme duress may I add as she was kept for many days against her own volition.

Let's not forget 'visions' are not and never will be 'proof' because they are personal and cannot be corroborated. Do you believe Joseph C Smith was visited by Jesus and directed to form the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

It is improbable. I don't see other masses of rape victims turning to Jesus. What we have here is a single testimony of a lady under extreme duress may I add as she was kept for many days against her own volition.

Let's not forget 'visions' are not and never will be 'proof' because they are personal and cannot be corroborated. Do you believe Joseph C Smith was visited by Jesus and directed to form the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints?

No Kyle, I do not believe that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel called Moroni, because - unlike Christ - there is no corroboration for his claim, as with the Muslim Prophet Mohammed.

But in any event I do not offer Stephanie's experience as any kind of 'proof' - a 'vision' can never be - what I'm asking, is given that she was an Atheist, why was her vision of Christ?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah exactly.

My own opinion on it is that it was her minds way of coping and getting her through the awful situation she was in. The mind is a very powerful thing, she may not have had hallucinations before but she was probably never in such a traumatic situation before that either

This is what i was going to say(type) too.This imo is a far more likely scenario than Jesus showing up AFTER she was raped to tell her everything's ok.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

This is what i was going to say(type) too.This imo is a far more likely scenario than Jesus showing up AFTER she was raped to tell her everything's ok.

It didn't happen quite like that Eyeball, Jesus never said anything. It was just a 'vision' of him she saw.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think if I was going to believe in an almighty power that made the known universe I would want it to perhaps step in a bit before in this scenario, maybe before she was raped?

And i wonder if the 20,000 children that will die today from hunger and preventable disease will see an image of Jesus as they gasp for their last breath?

Imo though LT whilst I can appreciate what you are saying it was through the act which caused her to experience. We are so bogged down with our everyday lives and worries that we are kept anchored to the physical plain of thought it is often when we are in trouble that another door opens and a light is allowed to shine in sad but true.

It is hard to say what the dear little souls will be feeling but an understandable point. We can but hope that there is some comfort somewhere for them.