[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A valid viewpoint Niamh, one which I have examined myself, but according to Stephanie herself, who is very grounded and rational, it was neither hallucination nor illusion. And why Christ? Given that she was Atheist? Why not Richard Dawkins, or Buddha, or Allah?

How could Stephanie know for sure if it was a hallucination or not? Her being a very grounded person in normal circumstances is irrelevant, she was not in a "normal" situation. Richard Dawkins is still alive for a start lol and has never claimed to be a God who was going to save all our souls so why would, when her mind was looking for a saviour an "anti saviour of the world believer" appear to her?

As for why Christ and not Buddha or Allah? I would imagine it's probably a geographical thing(I'm guessing by her name that she wasn't from a country where Muslimism or Buddhism is the most common religion) and the "God" who would be most familiar to her Also, Buddha wasn't even a "God" as far as I know

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How could Stephanie know for sure if it was a hallucination or not? Her being a very grounded person in normal circumstances is irrelevant, she was not in a "normal" situation. Richard Dawkins is still alive for a start lol and has never claimed to be a God who was going to save all our souls so why would, when her mind was looking for a saviour an "anti saviour of the world believer" appear to her?

As for why Christ and not Buddha or Allah? I would imagine it's probably a geographical thing(I'm guessing by her name that she wasn't from a country where Muslimism or Buddhism is the most common religion) and the "God" who would be most familiar to her Also, Buddha wasn't even a "God" as far as I know

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

Why on Earth would anyone, athiest or not find some sort of comfort from conjuring up Richard Dawkins? Besides the fact that he's still alive, he's not someone who your mind would think of to draw any sort of comfort from? My last post was a joke but it does apply here, What would he appear to tell her? "Congratulations Stephanie you were right, there is no God, If there was why would he let this horrible thing happen to you? Well, I'm off to rub salt in some Christian kidnappees wounds now, see ya later!"

"Stephanie" doesn't sound like a very Muslim name, England is a Christian country If she had seen "Allah" would you be sitting here saying why not Jesus, it must be true?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, but I'm referring to her 'vision' as inspirational rather than God due to the fact that she was atheist. Surely, it's highly improbable that an atheist would 'conjure' up Jesus to bring her comfort and strengthen her resolve, when she has never believed in him. She had 'accepted' that she was going to be murdered, and being an atheist, I would think that in her very dire circumstances, she would find solace in an atheist figurehead like Dawkins who represented what she believed in, and certainly not Jesus.

Stephanie hailed from Birmingham which probably has as many Mosques as anywhere else in the country, so being atheist, she was probably just as exposed to the Islamic religion, people, and 'trappings', as Christianity, or any other religion - none of which she believed in.

It is improbable. I don't see other masses of rape victims turning to Jesus. What we have here is a single testimony of a lady under extreme duress may I add as she was kept for many days against her own volition.

Let's not forget 'visions' are not and never will be 'proof' because they are personal and cannot be corroborated. Do you believe Joseph C Smith was visited by Jesus and directed to form the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

It is improbable. I don't see other masses of rape victims turning to Jesus. What we have here is a single testimony of a lady under extreme duress may I add as she was kept for many days against her own volition.

Let's not forget 'visions' are not and never will be 'proof' because they are personal and cannot be corroborated. Do you believe Joseph C Smith was visited by Jesus and directed to form the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints?

No Kyle, I do not believe that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel called Moroni, because - unlike Christ - there is no corroboration for his claim, as with the Muslim Prophet Mohammed.

But in any event I do not offer Stephanie's experience as any kind of 'proof' - a 'vision' can never be - what I'm asking, is given that she was an Atheist, why was her vision of Christ?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No Kyle, I do not believe that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel called Moroni, because - unlike Christ - there is no corroboration for his claim, as with the Muslim Prophet Mohammed.

But in any event I do not offer Stephanie's experience as any kind of 'proof' - a 'vision' can never be - what I'm asking, is given that she was an Atheist, why was her vision of Christ?

He also claimed to see two personages which are assumed to be Jesus Christ and God the father.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

He also claimed to see two personages which are assumed to be Jesus Christ and God the father.

Yes you're right Kyle, I wasn't meaning to 'dilute' your statement's validity, I used his vision of 'Moroni' because I think it's such a contrived B.S. name and it for me underlines why I don't accept his 'visions'. (maybe I shouldn't have got so pissed last night).