[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake. He said an officer taking a Taser out when they believe there could be a person with a gun puts the officer at risk, the Plain Dealer reported.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-boy/19471925/

Ok so he says they weren't told that the gun may be fake, it doesn't say anything about whether or not they were told he was or may be a juvenile though and what you said was "remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got" The fact that he didn't say they weren't told he may be a juvenile but did say it about the gun tells me that maybe they were given this information

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ok so he says they weren't told that the gun may be fake, it doesn't say anything about whether or not they were told he was or may be a juvenile though and what you said was "remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got" The fact that he didn't say they weren't told he may be a juvenile but did say it about the gun tells me that maybe they were given this information

to be fair the call came in from an old man across the street so i would imagine the call to the patrol was vague and loaded with "proceed with caution"


I would imagine the cops have had many "he is a juvenile" calls only to be met with a 240 pound 6 foot 2 adult

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://americangunfacts.com/

interesting graphic

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

to be fair the call came in from an old man across the street so i would imagine the call to the patrol was vague and loaded with "proceed with caution"


I would imagine the cops have had many "he is a juvenile" calls only to be met with a 240 pound 6 foot 2 adult

Doesn't sound much like they proceeded with caution to me, not for that poor kid anyway. Anyhow, we're going round in circles now. RIP to that poor child and I hope his parents get some justice for him.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if you cannot see the distinction then I would suggest you are just trolling this thread

You're focusing on pedantic and, ultimately, irrelevant things because you can't defend that child killer by any other means. Like I said before, If this murderer was competent at his job then there would have been no need for violence. Instead of calming the situation down he aggravated it. A child is dead by his hand because he failed to do his job properly and assess the situation by acting appropriately. This officer saw this black boy with his TOY gun and he racially profiled him and instead of clarifying the situation he went in and shot this kid twice.

His actions are indefensible. If you're going to accuse me of trolling then I'm going to say this. Would you be defending this man if he killed a white child?

[Ammi]

..it seems odd that the old guy who made the call and was across the street could have assessed that the gun could have been a fake but a trained police officer couldn't...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it seems odd that the old guy who made the call and was across the street could have assessed that the gun could have been a fake but a trained police officer couldn't...

Mm very good point, I think I read somewhere that the cop was a rookie, I wonder would a more seasoned cop have been so quick to pull the trigger?

[letmein]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Not to mention how often we hear about kids finding their parents guns. We are constantly being told by the liberal media how often kids take their parents guns, so it's not a stretch to believe a 12 y/o might have a real gun.

The "liberal media"? Oh, gawd.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes
but sadly children with guns
have killed Police
in America

You live in the US?

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Let's just say some poor drugstore worker or liquor store owner is probably now not going to be robbed and violently gunned down somewhere in a few years time.

That's a whole family now not having to go through the worst ordeal of their lives.

Nuff said.





.

There's a lot of sociopathy found in your comments.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're focusing on pedantic and, ultimately, irrelevant things because you can't defend that child killer by any other means. Like I said before, If this murderer was competent at his job then there would have been no need for violence. Instead of calming the situation down he aggravated it. A child is dead by his hand because he failed to do his job properly and assess the situation by acting appropriately. This officer saw this black boy with his TOY gun and he racially profiled him and instead of clarifying the situation he went in and shot this kid twice.

His actions are indefensible. If you're going to accuse me of trolling then I'm going to say this. Would you be defending this man if he killed a white child?

The colour of the youth has no bearing

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Mm very good point, I think I read somewhere that the cop was a rookie, I wonder would a more seasoned cop have been so quick to pull the trigger?

...I mean, surely he would have assessed that this was a very young person, even if he wouldn't know the exact age ...and if it was a very young person that there was a chance that the gun wasn't real or wasn't loaded and he was just messing around with it...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I mean, surely he would have assessed that this was a very young person, even if he wouldn't know the exact age ...and if it was a very young person that there was a chance that the gun wasn't real or wasn't loaded and he was just messing around with it...

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk


He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk


He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

It's amazing the way you'e played the scenario out in your head and the kid never lives and the cop is always justified in shooting him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

It's amazing the way you'e played the scenario out in your head and the kid never lives and the cop is always justified in shooting him.

ideal worlds do not exist

cops are nervous in trigger happy USA, replica guns look like real guns, that is why they are replicas

hindsight is not for sale

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

ideal worlds do not exist

cops are nervous in trigger happy USA, replica guns look like real guns, that is why they are replicas

hindsight is not for sale

Cops are nervous of children carrying fake guns in open carry states? Doesnt look like they are being properly trained. I'd be more nervous of adults.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk


He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

..maybe approach the situation with more caution and care in the first place to avoid loss of life..?..I understand what you're saying that he didn't know whether the gun was real and that a bullet would still kill whether it was being fired by a child or by an adult but there is also the point of view of the boy, he also had a gun pointed at him while a police officer was shouting at him and he had absolutely no doubts or uncertainties that, that gun was real and would be fired and so he maybe panicked..?...he was a child and must have been terrified...I don't think that approaching him/shouting at him and armed was how this should have been approached....

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..maybe approach the situation with more caution and care in the first place to avoid loss of life..?..I understand what you're saying that he didn't know whether the gun was real and that a bullet would still kill whether it was being fired by a child or by an adult but there is also the point of view of the boy, he also had a gun pointed at him while a police officer was shouting at him and he had absolutely no doubts or uncertainties that, that gun was real and would be fired and so he maybe panicked..?...he was a child and must have been terrified...I don't think that approaching him/shouting at him and armed was how this should have been approached....

as i said hindsight is in short supply in the police force

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

as i said hindsight is in short supply in the police force

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

Superbly argued Ammi and all valid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

What should the officer have done when the youth went for the gun and ignored his command?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What should the officer have done when the youth went for the gun and ignored his command?

...is it not more, what should the police officer have done to assess and de-escalate a situation involving a child so as not frighten/panic him by shouting and aiming his gun at him....and maybe that would have resulted in no loss of life ....and parents whose son was still with them....

[Josy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What should the officer have done when the youth went for the gun and ignored his command?

Used a taser or if he felt the need to shoot then NOT shoot to kill, especially a child.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The colour of the youth has no bearing

And neither is the inane debate on whether the gun was a toy or not. Like I've said before, the situation would have been cleared up and wouldn't have escalated if the Officer handled the situation better, now he's a child killer and should face the consequences for his actions.

[Ammi]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...r-rice-n256656

...he was shot within seconds/his body falls, in fact almost before the police car came to a halt...and when they arrived, he didn't have the fake gun in his hands but they approached and stopped right in front of him in a 'confrontational' way, rather than with 'caution' and more from a distance and then attempt to approach him and talk to him...there doesn't appear to be any attempt at 'law and order' ..also, from the distance they stopped and assuming that they have 20/20 vision as they carry firearms...could they not see that this was a very young person ...