[arista]

Prof Z

if the Americans Arm Ukraine
will it lead to WW3?


My Bunker is fully stocked.

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

Prof Z

if the Americans Arm Ukraine
will it lead to WW3?


My Bunker is fully stocked.

Nah, it's another proxy war like those we saw in the Cold War (Afghanistan, Vietnam...) where as long as there's a thinly veiled sense of "it's not happening in our territory, so it's not really happening", nothing will come of it. Tensions will remain high and frosty but neither Russia nor the USA wants a war, both would rather remain expansionist (NATO expansion vs Russian annexations) and indirectly confrontational than at war. The more likely cause for World War III, if there was to be one, would be the fearless, terrifying rebels in the Middle East. That whole region is one big melting pot of religious, political and class based tensions that no one solution can accommodate. You have Shias vs Sunnis, Christians vs Muslims vs Jews, nepotism in various emirates and kingdoms, downtrodden men and women (especially women), highly Westernised city states vs nomadic desert tribes... the legacy of colonial times is finally coming to bite the west in the ass, in my opinion we should get the **** out of where we don't belong and leave them all to sort it out themselves. People will die, but they're dying anyway. At least if we retreat and let the various factions fight it out and work things out amongst themselves, we can deal with whatever rises out of the ashes instead of the plate spinning exercise that we've got going on at the moment. We can't fight Islamic State effectively because it's not confined to traditional borders, it's not a war that can be fought in traditional terms, in one region we refuse to cooperate with the government and in the other we've got what's essentially a Western-installed puppet government that has absolutely no power or respect among the people it presides over. Tony Blair and George W Bush have a lot to answer for, I think they should be tried as war criminals, personally, and it is a complete ****ing laugh that Tony Blair is now lording it up in the Middle East claiming to be a peace envoy of some sort. Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and Osama bin Laden may have done some terrible things, but they were all once allies to the West. We've ****ed up.

World War III could well be on its way; we've got the rise of extremist parties all over Europe, total anarchy in the Middle East, North Africa (and parts of Western Africa) and the Caucasus; a great deal of hatred towards Muslims and a very poor understanding amongst every day people about what's actually going on around the world; this is all too familiar and echoes the political climate that led to World War II, except this time it's Muslims who are the subjects of scorn and misunderstanding instead of Jews and it's an undefined Islamic State that's acting belligerently in Asia instead of Nazi Germany in Central Europe. I do worry about it because we all assumed that we'd never go to war again, having learned our lessons... but the people in the Middle East didn't learn a lesson from World War II, the only lesson they learned is that the West felt like they could just flippantly draw borders, insert a large population of refugees and take all the oil from the Gulf. There's a lot of resentment towards the West and I'm not sure people really understand why.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Z

Nah, it's another proxy war like those we saw in the Cold War (Afghanistan, Vietnam...) where as long as there's a thinly veiled sense of "it's not happening in our territory, so it's not really happening", nothing will come of it. Tensions will remain high and frosty but neither Russia nor the USA wants a war, both would rather remain expansionist (NATO expansion vs Russian annexations) and indirectly confrontational than at war. The more likely cause for World War III, if there was to be one, would be the fearless, terrifying rebels in the Middle East. That whole region is one big melting pot of religious, political and class based tensions that no one solution can accommodate. You have Shias vs Sunnis, Christians vs Muslims vs Jews, nepotism in various emirates and kingdoms, downtrodden men and women (especially women), highly Westernised city states vs nomadic desert tribes... the legacy of colonial times is finally coming to bite the west in the ass, in my opinion we should get the **** out of where we don't belong and leave them all to sort it out themselves. People will die, but they're dying anyway. At least if we retreat and let the various factions fight it out and work things out amongst themselves, we can deal with whatever rises out of the ashes instead of the plate spinning exercise that we've got going on at the moment. We can't fight Islamic State effectively because it's not confined to traditional borders, it's not a war that can be fought in traditional terms, in one region we refuse to cooperate with the government and in the other we've got what's essentially a Western-installed puppet government that has absolutely no power or respect among the people it presides over. Tony Blair and George W Bush have a lot to answer for, I think they should be tried as war criminals, personally, and it is a complete ****ing laugh that Tony Blair is now lording it up in the Middle East claiming to be a peace envoy of some sort. Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and Osama bin Laden may have done some terrible things, but they were all once allies to the West. We've ****ed up.

World War III could well be on its way; we've got the rise of extremist parties all over Europe, total anarchy in the Middle East, North Africa (and parts of Western Africa) and the Caucasus; a great deal of hatred towards Muslims and a very poor understanding amongst every day people about what's actually going on around the world; this is all too familiar and echoes the political climate that led to World War II, except this time it's Muslims who are the subjects of scorn and misunderstanding instead of Jews and it's an undefined Islamic State that's acting belligerently in Asia instead of Nazi Germany in Central Europe. I do worry about it because we all assumed that we'd never go to war again, having learned our lessons... but the people in the Middle East didn't learn a lesson from World War II, the only lesson they learned is that the West felt like they could just flippantly draw borders, insert a large population of refugees and take all the oil from the Gulf. There's a lot of resentment towards the West and I'm not sure people really understand why.

Excellent Post.........says it all really.







.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Prof Z

if the Americans Arm Ukraine
will it lead to WW3?


My Bunker is fully stocked.

They effectively just have because the international monetary fund have just handed them 17.5 billion dollars. That's seen as a financial transaction and not arming the Ukrainians so we can put our hands up and still say we didn't arm them but that's going to be open to question.

If we get involved then China will come in on Russia's side.

As the ceasefire agreement was being singed this morning, Russia's television broadcasts were saying that they now had enough man power on western borders to take all of Europe and that they could take Germany and Poland in a day.