[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Give me some figures and I'll assess how much of an ACTUAL problem it is. You DID call it a 'problem' the other day didn't you? Show me how much of a problem it is and then I'll answer.

Mediterranean migrant death toll '30 times higher than last year':


More than 1,750 migrants perished in the Mediterranean since the start of the year - more than 30 times higher than during the same period of 2014, says the International Organisation for Migration

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Mediterranean migrant death toll '30 times higher than last year':


More than 1,750 migrants perished in the Mediterranean since the start of the year - more than 30 times higher than during the same period of 2014, says the International Organisation for Migration

How does that affect this country?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Helen 28

I presume that all the readers of the Sun can also be called rotten, vile, and despicable in your view.

You presume totally incorrectly then.

People buy the Sun and never read it, I know loads of epopel who buy it read the TV page, the problem page,then bin it.
They couldn't tell you a thing it says.

I know people who only buy it on a saturday,take out the TV mag bit and then throw it out.
It is the one of the,if not the cheapest of the papers in the main.

So no I do not think that any Sun readers are despicable at all, only the people who edit and print the Sun.
Some of my closest friends buy the Sun, I don't know one of them who takes what it says seriously though,or would act on what it says either.

Most say they buy it because it is a laugh.
However, no, you were wrong to presume as you did about me,and it is never wise really to presume as to how anyone else thinks or behaves either with respect,when you don't know them either.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course it is Kirk, because you would personally be happy living under a right wing regime. What you're talking about is not the "biggest danger to this country" it's "the biggest danger to you personally regarding what you want this country to be".

Very well said, I don't get this far left nonsense at all and the determination of demonisation of same as to them being a danger, it seems the extreme and uncompromising actually come from the far right more than the left.

The left seem to want to stand up for injustice, those who cannot speak for themselves, to be in unity with more organisations of the World than to be separatist.

In the UK which has at present one of the most extreme and heartless right wing govts; for me the sooner the 'left' can take over the better.

You would think it only had to be that those powerful and rich know better and also should be the only ones allowed to run the Country.
Not a one party state but government that 'only' can come from the right and far right.
Hardly democratic.
That the views of the right are totally valid and those on the left should be silent,absolutely pathetic.

[Redway]

Why the hell does anyone still pay attention to this stupid bint.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And what, exactly, do you think people's "real motives" are? Do enlighten us. I'm sure everyone wants to know what their opinions are. It must be very confusing for those of us who don't.

What are you talking about TS? I KNOW people's OPINIONS by what they write on here????

Motives are NOT opinion.

Left Wing members have different MOTIVES for expressing a viewpoint of the same subject or incident as Right Wing members have for expressing polar opposite of the same subject or incident - that's human nature.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy which sees some members seize the 'humanitarian' moral high ground and start lamenting, weeping and wailing when immigrants die in an accident, but do NOT express any of the same 'humanitarian' grief and concern when IS shoots and beheads innocent victims - especially Christians.

I'm talking about the uproar and 'moral' indignation when a ****** attention seeker like Katie Hopkins utters a preposterous anti-immigrant comment whilst those who are wailing loudest in reaction to it are notable by their silence or muted response whenever British-Based Islamic Hate Preachers have consistently spouted far more evil bile and urged Muslims to kill anyone who is NOT a Muslim.

I'm talking about the predictable over-reaction of the 'Lefties'on here in lambasting anyone who DARES to suggest or state that:

1) It is economic suicide for a small island like the UK to continue to allow in unchecked numbers of immigrants at a time when we are in debt, all our services are at breaking point, we have huge numbers of unemployed, and there are already over one million people waiting for a home to live in which does not exist.

2) It is highly dangerous and reckless for a small island like the UK to continue to allow in unchecked numbers of immigrants at a time when Islamic terrorists are decimating half the globe in wars and committing highly orchestrated atrocities in just about every Western Democratic country of the world, and when we have been WARNED by the Leaders of such terrorist organisations that they are secreting their 'Soldiers of Allah' in amongst those incoming immigrants, and when the it is continually emerging that the quick succession of long ensconced immigrants who have left the UK to join up with IS, have - all along - been covert members of terrorist groups.

3) It is banal to continue to be a 'member' of a corrupt, inefficient organisation such as the EU, when the evidence of over 40 years clearly and incontrovertibly proves that our membership has had catastrophic results for us. This includes total decimation of our Farming and Fishing industries, the loss of sovereignty of our Judicial system, control of our borders and a host of other controls. In addition, there has been an annual trade deficit and cost of membership of from Ł15 to 20 BILLION pounds.

4) That there are people in receipt of Benefits who are able to work, not ill, and are claiming fraudulently.

There are dozens of more examples but there is no point elaborating because I think you will get the message.

Whenever anyone has the nerve to suggest any of the above TRUTHS, the Lefties on here POUNCE upon them in numbers and scream in protest, and the MO is ALWAYS the same: What is being protested about is TWISTE

A) A plea for CONTROLLED IMMIGRATION is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted as a call for a TOTAL BAN on immigration, and the usual tripe accusations of 'RACIST', XENOPHOBIC' and/or 'INHUMANE' immediately follow.

B) Any claim that some BENEFIT SCROUNGERS exist is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted as an ATTACK ON THE POOREST AND MOST VULNERABLE ELEMENTS OF SOCIETY.

C) Any call for the UK to quit the EU based upon 40 years of proof of it being a catastrophic failure is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted and those suggesting we quit are called "Little Englanders" and worse.

You and others like you can say what you want - that is a democratic right on a forum in a democracy, but because our views do not align with yours DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT AND US WRONG.

In fact - no matter how much you write as though you have a monopoly on the absolute truth - the FACTS and EVIDENCE supports what WE contend, and should you wish to enter into a REASONED and CIVIL DEBATE on this, I for one will be happy to oblige you.

As a footnote; I see NOTHING in my post here which breeches Tibb rules - no more than any other post preceding it - I hope therefore, that this response, which has been written in answer to a request by ToySoldier himself, will not be removed or lead to me being infracted. It is fair comment and politely couched.

[joeysteele]

In my opinion, the biggest danger to the UK as a whole and its future anywhere, actually comes from the right of politics now.
For me it would be utter madness to leave the EU and all the uncertainties that would create afterwards.

The argument for the Scots was we were better together, for them to go independent would be disastrous for Scotland with all the uncertainties that would entail.

Yet these same parties and people would take the UK out of the EU,regardless.
That is the real danger to the UK, not in any way coming from parties of the left or people who hold left wing views either.
When the left of politics did think that way, they were branded loonys.

Now it is the right wing parties who think that way, well as I have said before, what then does that now say about them.
probably it should say the same as to much of what is thought of Katie Hopkins and her views really,in my opinion.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly Kirk you're as guilty of bias as any number of "lefties" (which is, by the way, an insulting and patronising slur) on here. There is a massive gulf between saying "there is a problem with immigration controls and it needs to be looked at" and stating that people from sub-saharran Africa are "savages who would rape and murder your family in a heartbeat" (reasoned or civil debate went out of the window right about there) . Or, for that matter, the comments of Ms Hopkins herself that they are "cockroaches" who deserve to be blown out of the water. But do you ever pick up on the latter comments and point out how ludicrous they are? No. Never. And yet you lambast others for "refusing to condemn" this, that and the other.

Also kirk... I honestly have to say... I don't see anyone on this forum consistently and determinedly posting as if they have a "monopoly on the truth" other than... Err... You. Even going so far as to state and congratulate how "intelligent" anyone who happens to agree with you must be (thereby inferring that anyone who does not is less intelligent, and presumably therefore more likely to be "wrong"). So I'll just flip it right back at you:

Just because our beliefs do not align with yours, does not make YOU right and US wrong.

This will continue to be the case, no matter how many "really really long posts" full of dubious, one-sided "facts" and supposed "evidence" you bellow at us.

First of all TS - I have never said that; "people from sub-saharran Africa are "savages who would rape and murder your family in a heartbeat"

Secondly, for you to state:

"Or, for that matter, the comments of Ms Hopkins herself that they are "cockroaches" who deserve to be blown out of the water. But do you ever pick up on the latter comments and point out how ludicrous they are? No. Never. And yet you lambast others for "refusing to condemn" this, that and the other."

is utter nonsense and patently untrue:

A) "It is terrible"

B) Originally Posted by joeysteele
JOEY STEELE'S POST: I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.[/B]
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.

I couldn't agree more Joey - but like Lily, I don't buy the Sun or ever listen, watch or read Hopkins, but also as Lily says, as abhorrent and fake as it all is - Hopkins is entitled to her opinions.

C) I have NO time for Katie Hopkins

D) Hopkins comments - though offensive

E)I had already stated several times that Hopkins was wrong and condemned her for it

F) the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants,

G) LIVIA'S POST: "Why does anyone care what Hopkins has to say? She's a gobsh1te. Pre-Internet, d/ckheads like her would have to go to Speakers Corner to get an audience, now, they have the opportunity to spill their bile to a MASSIVE audience many of whom seem to be drinking in her nonsense. Here is another thread discussing what this woman thinks. I don't care... let me know when someone's topped her so I can avoid her "RIP" thread."

My response: "I genuinely applaud what you say Liv"

How many more do you need? Now those condemnations are from just this thread, which is FAR MORE than I have ever witnessed YOU post on threads where innocents have been beheaded by IS, or where Hate Preachers have spouted incitements to violence, so you are WRONG to claim it is .

As for: "Also kirk... I honestly have to say... I don't see anyone on this forum consistently and determinedly posting as if they have a "monopoly on the truth" other than... Err... You. Even going so far as to state and congratulate how "intelligent" anyone who happens to agree with you must be (thereby inferring that anyone who does not is less intelligent, and presumably therefore more likely to be "wrong"). So I'll just flip it right back at you:"

I am one of the few on here who usually actually posts corroborating evidence to support what I write. So your contentions above are totally groundless.

[Niamh.]

I've deleted over half of this thread and am going to reopen it but if it descends into the same sniping, insulting, racist and xenophobic mess that it was again then it's going to be permanently closed

[Livia]

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

I think you're right

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

Doubt it, Hopkins doesn't like censorship

[Crimson Dynamo]

I miss all the racist xenophobia this thread once had

[GiRTh]

The thread doesnt make sense anymore may as well delete it.

[Niamh.]

The thread is reopened for any further developments with the article Girth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jamelia is the new hopkins

[Niamh.]

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

[user104658]

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

Well go on then

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

You do that Kizzy

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

It's a cracker.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

Kizzy - I think it's been FAIRLY deleted, but no one actually DID agree with Hopkins being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' anyway, so that part's not missing.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I miss all the racist xenophobia this thread once had

Nutter.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Kizzy - I think it's been FAIRLY deleted, but no one actually DID agree with Hopkins being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' anyway, so that part's not missing.

I don't agree, due to the sterilisation of the thread there's no point discussing it further and any examples have gone.
So draw a line under it I want the thread to remain open thank you.