[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm sure we can discuss this without doing the whole "some Helen haters" bit. I'm well aware that some people liked her. I'm just discussing the circumstances leading up to her winning. They weren't the normal set of circumstances a HM has to get to the point of winning. She didn't make it to the final on her own merits and if she'd not had that pass, she would have been gone a long time before that, I think that's pretty much a definite

Yeah i get that, i don't mean to be personal about yourself being a Helen-hater like that, so i'm sorry if it came across that way. It just feels like a blanket all out dismissal of Helen from lots of people sometimes, so i'm sorry if i put you wrongly in that bracket.

And yeah you are right, she'd probably never have made it to the final were it not for the pass. But still she pulled off the win, something the real villains - Conor/Perez/Farrah would never have managed.

The only other BB villain who came close to the Helen effect was Speidi, who again mixed their villainy with humanity and humour, hence they came a close 2nd to Rylan (who was destined to win from the start).