[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So being out of the EU won't change a thing, do you think brexiteers know this?

Probably they do Kizzy but maybe do not want to acknowledge that fact.

We had a nett migration of 334,000 last year of which only 184,000 were from the EU.

If we come out of the EU and firmly refuse to do any deal with the EU that involves the free movement of EU citizens, then we would be able to stop people coming from the EU to the UK.

If that is, and for me it is a mighty big 'if' but also in my view probably impossible we could get any trading deal with the EU,where all the other 27 EU members would give us said deal, without the insistence of free movement of EU citizens.

Hypothetically,If I personally was one of the heads of those other 27 EU Nations we would be leaving behind in the EU.
I would not be looking to give the UK any easy deal whatsoever.

I frankly in that scenario, would not even be bothered likely what happened to the UK, and would hope most or even all the foreign investment there is in the UK would be moved to mainland Europe after the UK left too.

The full and real duty of the EU hierarchy will be to do the best for, and satisfy, the remaining EU member Nations, not run after a Nation 'choosing' to run away.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Probably they do Kizzy but maybe do not want to acknowledge that fact.

We had a nett migration of 334,000 last year of which only 184,000 were from the EU.

If we come out of the EU and firmly refuse to do any deal with the EU that involves the free movement of EU citizens, then we would be able to stop people coming from the EU to the UK.

If that is, and for me it is a mighty big 'if' but also in my view probably impossible we could get any trading deal with the EU,where all the other 27 EU members would give us said deal, without the insistence of free movement of EU citizens.

Hypothetically,If I personally was one of the heads of those other 27 EU Nations we would be leaving behind in the EU.
I would not be looking to give the UK any easy deal whatsoever.

I frankly in that scenario, would not even be bothered likely what happened to the UK, and would hope most or even all the foreign investment there is in the UK would be moved to mainland Europe after the UK left too.

The full and real duty of the EU hierarchy will be to do the best for, and satisfy, the remaining EU member Nations, not run after a Nation 'choosing' to run away.

Then if you were the head of one of those 27 nations you would be massively losing out on a massive market for your country.
Those heads of state want and need a good deal with us and won't cut off their noses to spite their face.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Then if you were the head of one of those 27 nations you would be massively losing out on a massive market for your country.
Those heads of state want and need a good deal with us and won't cut off their noses to spite their face.

This is where you and I differ strongly on this one,I see the UK as the one cutting off its nose to spite its face by leaving.
Which is why I am not taking that risk and will vote to remain.

If however as to your point, I was one of those 27 heads of an EU member remaining, I would take that risk and refuse to ratify any deal for the UK that did not insist on the UK accepting the free movement of EU citizens.
That would then be the UKs choice to make.

Even if we do leave however, I do in fact believe ayway that the UK govt in negotiation for a deal,will accept the free movement of EU citizens, saying that was the only way to get a substantial and good deal for the UK in the end.

There is not going to be any other referendum asking the UK voters again if they want to accept the negotiated deal made by the govt after an exit vote.
That decision will be the govts and the govts alone.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is where you and I differ strongly on this one,I see the UK as the one cutting off its nose to spite its face by leaving.
Which is why I am not taking that risk and will vote to remain.

If however as to your point, I was one of those 27 heads of an EU member remaining, I would take that risk and refuse to ratify any deal for the UK that did not insist on the UK accepting the free movement of EU citizens.
That would then be the UKs choice to make.

Even if we do leave however, I do in fact believe ayway that the UK govt in negotiation for a deal,will accept the free movement of EU citizens, saying that was the only way to get a substantial and good deal for the UK in the end.

There is not going to be any other referendum asking the UK voters again if they want to accept the negotiated deal made by the govt after an exit vote.
That decision will be the govts and the govts alone.

Even if the government in power does'nt think that migration is too high now.At the rate it's coming it's not going to be all that long until we as a country have to put the brakes on or atleast take control of the numbers.This tiny island has its limits.Atleast out of the EU we have the option to do that when the sh1t really does hit the fan and one government will have to do that,It is inevitable.It's going to happen.As an EU member we are impotent to do anything.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Even if the government in power does'nt think that migration is too high now.At the rate it's coming it's not going to be all that long until we as a country have to put the brakes on or atleast take control of the numbers.This tiny island has its limits.Atleast out of the EU we have the option to do that when the sh1t really does hit the fan and one government will have to do that,It is inevitable.It's going to happen.As an EU member we are impotent to do anything.

NM if your reasons for voting to leave the EU hinge on migration levels, I'd humbly (since I'm a humble fellow) suggest that you've been mislead and will be disappointed (in the event of Brexit, when it has little impact on migration). If you have other solid reasons for wanting out of the EU, if you just think that on balance it's the right way to go, then that's one thing... but so many people are letting their thinking regarding the referrendum hinge on migration and it's a complete red herring.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

NM if your reasons for voting to leave the EU hinge on migration levels, I'd humbly (since I'm a humble fellow) suggest that you've been mislead and will be disappointed (in the event of Brexit, when it has little impact on migration). If you have other solid reasons for wanting out of the EU, if you just think that on balance it's the right way to go, then that's one thing... but so many people are letting their thinking regarding the referrendum hinge on migration and it's a complete red herring.

Migration is 'a' reason i'm voting out.Not 'the' reason.
I don't like the whole concept of what it has become since becoming the EU.I think in the beginning the EEC was a good idea but it has become a totally different authoritarian beast.The people who put forward the laws to be pondered over by the EU parliament are not elected they are 'appointed'.They imo don't really like the concept of nations and only want what is good for their organisation and not the member states.You may argue that what is good for the EU is obviously good for its members but i believe that the interests of the member states are only second to the interests of this giant bloated company we know as the European Union.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Migration is 'a' reason i'm voting out.Not 'the' reason.
I don't like the whole concept of what it has become since becoming the EU.I think in the beginning the EEC was a good idea but it has become a totally different authoritarian beast.The people who put forward the laws to be pondered over by the EU parliament are not elected they are 'appointed'.They imo don't really like the concept of nations and only want what is good for their organisation and not the member states.You may argue that what is good for the EU is obviously good for its members but i believe that the interests of the member states are only second to the interests of this giant bloated company we know as the European Union.

I don't necessarily disagree that there are plenty of serious flaws with the EU, however, I personally think there's plenty of scope for drastic reform into something great rather than just cashing in our chips and heading home. My main gripe really is that no one has tried particularly hard to achieve that. A few token gripes here and there but mostly just lumbering along, and then wondering why it isn't quite working.

I could understand the drive to dismantle it if we had been trying for years to find a better solution, failing to do so, and having no other option. As it stands, it all seems to be somewhat knee-jerk, ill thought out, and driven by misplaced economic and security concerns.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Probably they do Kizzy but maybe do not want to acknowledge that fact.

We had a nett migration of 334,000 last year of which only 184,000 were from the EU.

If we come out of the EU and firmly refuse to do any deal with the EU that involves the free movement of EU citizens, then we would be able to stop people coming from the EU to the UK.

If that is, and for me it is a mighty big 'if' but also in my view probably impossible we could get any trading deal with the EU,where all the other 27 EU members would give us said deal, without the insistence of free movement of EU citizens.

Hypothetically,If I personally was one of the heads of those other 27 EU Nations we would be leaving behind in the EU.
I would not be looking to give the UK any easy deal whatsoever.

I frankly in that scenario, would not even be bothered likely what happened to the UK, and would hope most or even all the foreign investment there is in the UK would be moved to mainland Europe after the UK left too.

The full and real duty of the EU hierarchy will be to do the best for, and satisfy, the remaining EU member Nations, not run after a Nation 'choosing' to run away.

That's petty self defeatist self destructive and would bankrupt the eu even more lol
Don't you get it the eu is bust