[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Tell me, do you know anything about Maastricht? What about the common fisheries policy? Do you know what happened when Ireland voted no to the Lisbon treaty? Do you know anything about Greece and the austerity imposed on it? What about Spain?

Why do you think the future could be so better? What are the facts that bring you to this conclusion? How do you think an independent Scotland would manage financially? What kind of influence could they have in the EU?

I'll listen to anyone's point of view but a genuine point of view needs to have back up. It has no substance if all someone can say is this is a fact because I said so or give some other evasive response. Hating your own country is pointless and rather childish unless you live in a genuinely oppressive regime, you don't, there are much worse places in the world where you could have been born. At least in the UK you can change things you don't like by participating or protesting.

What makes me proud to be British? I live in a democracy. I live in a country where you aren't arrested and tortured for your beliefs or for speaking and criticising the government. Where there is fair process of law. I live in a country that is generally tolerant with a fantastic welfare system and free health care for all. In the US for instance having a baby in hospital costs around $10000, here you can just go ahead without that financial burden. I live in a country where a couple of musicians and some comedians saw people starving to death thousands of miles away and did, and have done, what they could to help. I live in a country where people put their hands in their pockets and drew out the cash to help. I am from a people who aren't afraid to say no to tyranny. I live in the country who peacefully abolished slavery through process of law because it was wrong. There are thousands of reasons to be very proud of where you come from, how sad that you aren't proud. There is no perfect state, no perfect world but here you have it pretty damn good.

Why on earth are you questioning me on past govt policy and issues relating to other countries, why on earth would that be a prerequisite to having an opinion on the future of Britain?

I feel the new ties we're forging as well as the new laws we are introducing make for a regressive regime rather than a progressive union.
I do not hate this country I said I felt despondent, it is childish to subscribe to the media driven narrative that if you are not for this autocratic so called 'sovereignty' you are against England ..I am not.

The argument that I could live in another country is entirely pointless as it does nothing to address any issue, that would be a hypothetical...I don't live in another country I was born and socialised here. Whatever happened past present or future in other countries is irrelevant in this instance, I wish to focus on the here and now.

It is not my issue to worry about how Scotland will manage financially at the moment, as once again them leaving our union is a hypothetical ..it hasn't happened. I worry how the UK will manage financially now we have left the EU because as you know nobody has the slightest clue as to what 'brexit' will ultimately cost.

What can be changed by protesting? If even our MPs are being kept in the dark about issues relating to the split then what chance have we to protest... the fact that our representatives are being kept in the dark should give an indication as to how well it will be received. If you believe in democracy then be afraid because that is not my idea of it.

At the moment you live in a fair and just society, my worry was for the future.. can I see the same level of justice and public service in the future?
No, no I can't, that's my worry.
Your confusion that not being proud of where we are heading transpires as I am not proud of our generosity as a nation is obvious, I am fiercely proud of our historical successes in regard to civil rights, my issue is can these be retained for future generations?....

I am aware there is no perfect state, again that is no argument for not questioning the state of our nation as it stands here and now, contemplating the decisions being made behind closed doors and pondering on the impact of those for our children and our childrens children.
Have we safeguarded this land of milk and honey for them, left it as we found it...made it better? I genuinely don't think we have.

Also can I say I have the right to my opinion, this is a discussion forum not a facts forum...
whoever feels I do not have the right to speak my mind based on my own observations is fundamentally wrong.
If my views are not shared let it be known I do not care,in this country we have for now free speech, therefore I claim my right to express myself and will continue to do so.