[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I agree Maru, but though I BELIEVE that some complainants were shouting about their need for choccy woccy, I don't think that the chocolate was ALL they were complaining about when the reports from other sources are read.

I was just being a tad lazy.

That link is very interesting by the way.

I just love devoting hours of research on events that 'Did NOT happen'.

By the way, I came across this by some wag on the internet:

"The gelatin that is used to make gummi bears is made from rendered PORK bones. Yuuuuummmy!"

Oh when I say I don't care... it's to say I don't care if someone becomes disgruntled over something that comes down to wording. We all have differing perspectives on things. I can accept this easily.

Kirk, I wish my husband had more time to post... he would be really enlightening as to the idiotic things that go on where he works. Not really pertaining to those who are mentally ill, but those in housing... he has talk people through some of their own reasoning to get them to change their mind and to go from resistance to compliance... people are just silly.

Other stories are just downright not believable. Most officers say they have been asked some details and when they tell folk, they just can't believe it... Some things are closer to the truth than people actually really realize

As a debater though, I can't really debate something without non-biased sources... I tend to believe the sillier side of things, again... from vast experience and my husband's own stories, I can't immediately discount it. Still, I don't think that it would even change the mind of someone on the opposing side to hear these stories... for most folk, seeing is believing. But good luck with that, some people are too busy playing armchair politician to check what really happens outside their chair... aside from that, most counter arguments on this board are from an emotional standpoint... and you can't argue someone's feeling on matters. That's really personal to them and I've never successfully changed someone's 'feeling' about something... it comes down to their willpower and willingness to leave their comfort zone and look for perspective.

That last bit was a little OT, but I guess it applies to this thread.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

Oh I agree, however it is worded... a silly and ridiculous reason to burn down a building. Again, only knowing what I have heard from people who deal with them first hand... criminals have and will commit crimes for the silliest and often stupidest of reasons. Often there are stories around it that involve details the public often will not accept and are unwilling to believe. We are desensitized to political rhetoric and are sheltered from most of the weird world we co-exist with--it's not only the mundane things fly under the radar, but often times really telling stories that enlighten to as what really goes on in the rest of the world... much less what is happening underneath our noses.

Our neighbors south of the border, imo, don't bring in some of the more colorful headlines that I read on here... many are hardworking folk that come in, but I think in Europe, the experiences/opinions will be more diverse as far as immigration is concerned, complicated by political uprisings and the media spin...that's without even bringing up terrorism. We only have to worry about a secondary language in terms of integrating illegal immigrants, whereas you have to provide support folk from multiple backgrounds, regions as well as the social problems that follow them here. I couldn't begin to dissect all that as my knowledge is limited mostly to the US in that respect. My husband is very knowledgeable in world history, especially military history, various cultural and geographical issues in Europe... so he is the one who usually enlightens me on those subjects.

If your hubby is REALLY your superior in knowledge on ANY subject Maru, I would HATE to be called upon to adjudicate any intellectual argument in your home between hubby and you.

I would not - frankly - be equal to the task. (I shall blame dilapidation due my old age. )

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

Oh when I say I don't care... it's to say I don't care if someone becomes disgruntled over something that comes down to wording. We all have differing perspectives on things. I can accept this easily.

Kirk, I wish my husband had more time to post... he would be really enlightening as to the idiotic things that go on where he works. Not really pertaining to those who are mentally ill, but those in housing... he has talk people through some of their own reasoning to get them to change their mind and to go from resistance to compliance... people are just silly.

Other stories are just downright not believable. Most officers say they have been asked some details and when they tell folk, they just can't believe it... Some things are closer to the truth than people actually really realize

As a debater though, I can't really debate something without non-biased sources... I tend to believe the sillier side of things, again... from vast experience and my husband's own stories, I can't immediately discount it. Still, I don't think that it would even change the mind of someone on the opposing side to hear these stories... for most folk, seeing is believing. But good luck with that, some people are too busy playing armchair politician to check what really happens outside their chair... aside from that, most counter arguments on this board are from an emotional standpoint... and you can't argue someone's feeling on matters. That's really personal to them and I've never successfully changed someone's 'feeling' about something... it comes down to their willpower and willingness to leave their comfort zone and look for perspective.

That last bit was a little OT, but I guess it applies to this thread.

Another great post Maru, and I will plagiarise the emboldened bit to use in one of my off-Tib debates.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If your hubby is REALLY your superior in knowledge on ANY subject Maru, I would HATE to be called upon to adjudicate any intellectual argument in your home between hubby and you.

I would not - frankly - be equal to the task. (I shall blame dilapidation due my old age. )

I've lost plenty of arguments, kirk My current post count is nothing compared to what it used to be in my college/heavily caffeinated years.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Another great post Maru, and I will plagiarise the emboldened bit to use in one of my off-Tib debates.

It's a shame I put up my troll stick from so long ago. I have some wittier ones. Between the hub and I, I've coined "intellectual masturbation"... I really should get a copyright

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The BBC link doesn't work and the Independent article tells quite a different story to the one in the OP, it wasn't about not getting free sweets but about a difference of opinion that the two idiots took too far and will be rightfully punished for their actions. Hardly grounds to damn an entire people.

Breitbart is a biased source as is 'Jihadwatch' (Jesus ****ing Christ....) while the Daily Mail is the Daily Mail.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

It's a shame I put up my troll stick from so long ago. I have some wittier ones. Between the hub and I, I've coined "intellectual masturbation"... I really should get a copyright

I'll pay no royalties - that BIG POND is between us.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'll pay no royalties - that BIG POND is between us.

True!

[Kizzy]

I am seriously thinking of leaving this forum, the 'alt right' is on the rise here!
What on earth is a thread stating 'send the bastards back' doing on serious debates?..... All week it has just been a barrage of attacks against Muslims or immigrants, thread after thread.
It's beyond a joke now.

[Cherie]

Makes a change from the a trump threads I guess?

[Ammi]

...so terrifying when you think of how this could have turned out and many could be dead now, there's just no condoning or justifying what these two men did in starting the fire...looking at some pics from the Daily Mail and the deflation and despair of people in the centre.....no thought for them at all and seeming some kind of build up and tensions with some security guards and a few of the centre's occupants and then Ramadan practises being a final trigger in the escalation of those tensions...just a few people causing so much damage and endangering so many...

..the link for the other report of the 45 arson type incidents seems to be mostly incidents by residents/locals against immigrant camps/centres..., not those who are resident in them...80% arson attacks on centres, also endangering all in the camp..it's all extremely worrying with those who obviously fear or hate or whatever their reasoning, possibly becoming themselves the very thing that they fear in their actions...it's so sad how extreme terrorism seems to be winning in it's planting of those fear seeds and then it's just for them to smile at watching them grow and watching the mistrust and fear all destroy itself...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Makes a change from the a trump threads I guess?

The trump threads are what triggered this right wing wankathon....I'm out for a while it stinks in here!!!

(James, Josy sort it out or rename the forum This Is Breitbart Bollox!)


Kiz Out *drops mic

[Firewire]

I can't believe jihadi watch and brietbart are considered valid sources

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so terrifying when you think of how this could have turned out and many could be dead now, there's just no condoning or justifying what these two men did in starting the fire...looking at some pics from the Daily Mail and the deflation and despair of people in the centre.....no thought for them at all and seeming some kind of build up and tensions with some security guards and a few of the centre's occupants and then Ramadan practises being a final trigger in the escalation of those tensions...just a few people causing so much damage and endangering so many...

..the link for the other report of the 45 arson type incidents seems to be mostly incidents by residents/locals against immigrant camps/centres..., not those who are resident in them...80% arson attacks on centres, also endangering all in the camp..it's all extremely worrying with those who obviously fear or hate or whatever their reasoning, possibly becoming themselves the very thing that they fear in their actions...it's so sad how extreme terrorism seems to be winning in it's planting of those fear seeds and then it's just for them to smile at watching them grow and watching the mistrust and fear all destroy itself...

Great points Ammi, in a fair and balanced post.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Firewire

I can't believe jihadi watch and brietbart are considered valid sources

WHY? If WHAT they are reporting is TRUE, and if it mirrors the same reportage from other - more mainstream media, why are they not valid sources?

Did this incident HAPPEN or didn't it. THAT is what is important here.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The trump threads are what triggered this right wing wankathon....I'm out for a while it stinks in here!!!

(James, Josy sort it out or rename the forum This Is Breitbart Bollox!)


Kiz Out *drops mic

What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz

Certainly a good thread shouldn't be closed or interfered with because a poster is frustrated that many of the opinions aren't in keeping with their own. Debate will always involve having to tolerate opinions that some are not comfortable with - it works both ways.

[Ammi]

..the problem is (I think personally..)..is that there is very little debate anymore and it would be better named as Serious Discord or Serious Disrespect Section, so many threads just don't show any resemblance to debate at all but just hostility and defence..any topic worthy of debate or felt in need of debate is becoming lost...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the problem is (I think personally..)..is that there is very little debate anymore and it would be better named as Serious Discord or Serious Disrespect Section, so many threads just don't show any resemblance to debate at all but just hostility and defence..any topic worthy of debate or felt in need of debate is becoming lost...

I think it's more to do with name calling and the word bigot, racist and hypocrite being bandied about which causes offence and stifles any further discussion

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

I think it's more to do with name calling and the word bigot, racist and hypocrite being bandied about which causes offence and stifles any further discussion

Very true. It is often a deliberate attempt to undermine and belittle an opposing opinion which understandably leads to friction.

[Ammi]

..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...

No I don't believe it all contributes equally, there is usually a catalyst, take the migrant fire post, it took to post 2 or 3 for the word bigot to be used, no need for it at all, people aren't going to put up and shut up when called names unnecessarily in the course of a discussion, never mind before the discussion has started

[kirklancaster]

In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.

Sometimes, our views are PROVED to be wrong.

I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ. My belief rests on one single tenet - that he was crucified and rose body and soul.

Now if someone discovered a GENUINE ossuary in an hitherto undiscovered tomb in Jerusalem, and the inscription on that ossuary proclaimed; Here is Yeshua son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James' and the bones were subsequently dated to the time of Christ, then I would be sick, depressed, and shattered, but I could not DENY the TRUTH that I had laboured under a misapprehension for so long.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.

It really isn't