[Ammi]

..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...

No I don't believe it all contributes equally, there is usually a catalyst, take the migrant fire post, it took to post 2 or 3 for the word bigot to be used, no need for it at all, people aren't going to put up and shut up when called names unnecessarily in the course of a discussion, never mind before the discussion has started

[kirklancaster]

In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.

Sometimes, our views are PROVED to be wrong.

I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ. My belief rests on one single tenet - that he was crucified and rose body and soul.

Now if someone discovered a GENUINE ossuary in an hitherto undiscovered tomb in Jerusalem, and the inscription on that ossuary proclaimed; Here is Yeshua son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James' and the bones were subsequently dated to the time of Christ, then I would be sick, depressed, and shattered, but I could not DENY the TRUTH that I had laboured under a misapprehension for so long.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.

It really isn't

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It really isn't

Well can I ask what is then Niamh, in your opinion?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Well can I ask what is then Niamh, in your opinion?

In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.

It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.

It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate

Thank you for responding Niamh.

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post but I have my own opinion of just who are the main culprits, but although I am entitled to that opinion, I cannot publish it because of the Forum rules (and I would not anyway) but you can be assured that if I did, my opinion would split the forum in half at least.

And that is the nature of the beast - disagreeing with OPINION on a Debate Forum, but I still maintain, that it is when FACTS are denied and dismissed out of hand because those facts completely disprove an opinion and there is NO argument to them, that name calling begins and trouble starts.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.

It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate

.....yeah I pretty much agree in that there is so little responsibility taken for the self-participation in these things and how they often progress the way they do.../we can never control what other people do or say...all we can do is to look at ourselves and our own part and 'who said what first' becomes irrelevant and will only ever result in the same old, same old and the same old spoiling of any debate or discussion...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.

It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate

IMO the major problem (and the one that leads to all of what you're saying here) is that there are very few people here who actually want any sort of academic discussion; i.e. a back and forth of "maybes" to lead to some sort of conclusion. Everybody starts with their conclusions already set in concrete, a whole bundle of suppositions, prejudices, and confirmation biases (confirmation bias makes up something like 75% of new thread topics in the first place; this one being a stellar example.)

These things are posted repeatedly simply for the "fun" of bashing the bricks together until one breaks or they both crumble.

In short: There are no debates nor discussions. And yes it is quite depressing, and boring.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It really isn't

Debate/discussion on serious issues will always involve disagreement. If some are going to throw a tantrum when they feel the debate is not going the way they want it to go and want the debate shutdown - what is the point of any debate.

Debate is democratic. Let's not shut down democratic discussion.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No I don't believe it all contributes equally, there is usually a catalyst, take the migrant fire post, it took to post 2 or 3 for the word bigot to be used, no need for it at all, people aren't going to put up and shut up when called names unnecessarily in the course of a discussion, never mind before the discussion has started

..I was just typing out something/my thoughts but then I thought no because that would also be contributing further as well, so I'm just going to leave it with your perspective Cherie...

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I was just typing out something/my thoughts but then I thought no because that would also be contributing further as well, so I'm just going to leave it with your perspective Cherie...

You are entitled to your thoughts Ammi of course, just as I am to mine, as long as we have a civil discussion which we always do there are no issues IMO, have a great day!