[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles

That's a good start, maybe we could see a few people actually starting threads instead of complaining about what others choose to post about.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That's a good start, maybe we could see a few people actually starting threads instead of complaining about what others choose to post about.

Guilty as charged I will try to rise to the challenge though

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Guilty as charged I will try to rise to the challenge though

[jet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles

Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB

aww

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jet

Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB

So what's changed? As they all still post regularly

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So what's changed? As they all still post regularly

The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.

So you know what to do, get posting :

[Cherie]

Also it seems people are attracted to this type of thread 4 pages long compared to a thread on sperm donors where various questions have been posed and it's struggling for posts, so if people want this type of thread to die out they need to proactively post elsewhere

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Also it seems people are attracted to this type of thread 4 pages long compared to a thread on sperm donors where various questions have been posed and it's struggling for posts, so if people want this type of thread to die out they need to proactively post elsewhere

tbf 2 and a half of those pages are talking about the problems we're having in SDs atm

[iloveaisleyne]

And who's footing the bill for it to be rebuilt? Taxpayers?

If they don't appreciate asylum maybe they shouldn't have it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

tbf 2 and a half of those pages are talking about the problems we're having in SDs atm

Stop talking sense Niamh

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Stop talking sense Niamh

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.

Now we are back to square one. Why is there a bad atmosphere for posting a NEWS article which is reporting the TRUTH about an incident which concerns IMMIGRATION - which is possibly one of the MAJOR areas of public concern in MOST countries around the world?

There is NO 'Bad Atmosphere' intrinsic to the article - it is reportage - the 'Bad Atmosphere' is what has been created by SOME members reaction TO the article.

And just HOW do we to remedy THAT?

Obviously, the answer most popular with some members, would be to STOP posting such articles.

So perhaps two or three of you should get together and draw up a list of just WHICH topics are OK for the rest of us to post?

[Northern Monkey]

It does get pretty bad on here sometimes with the opposing views on emotive subjects.People being called 'bigot,racist,xenophobic,looney left' etc.
I do think that the mainstream media cover this stuff up alot though.Specially the BBC.Everyone gets this rose tinted view of 'these poor migrants' and sees hardly any of the bad stuff that happens in these countries.Especially Germany lately.It's important to see this stuff.Islam as an ideology is not compatible with western society and the more radical form even more so.Many of these people have to put aside many of their values and beliefs to fit in and many aren't willing to.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.

This ^^^

[jet]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Now we are back to square one. Why is there a bad atmosphere for posting a NEWS article which is reporting the TRUTH about an incident which concerns IMMIGRATION - which is possibly one of the MAJOR areas of public concern in MOST countries around the world?

There is NO 'Bad Atmosphere' intrinsic to the article - it is reportage - the 'Bad Atmosphere' is what has been created by SOME members reaction TO the article.

And just HOW do we to remedy THAT?

Obviously, the answer most popular with some members, would be to STOP posting such articles.

So perhaps two or three of you should get together and draw up a list of just WHICH topics are OK for the rest of us to post?

How about a separate thread dedicated to topics and news items on illegal immigrant issues for those interested specifically in that subject? Then there won't be lots of different threads all on variations of the same thing? Would that work?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.

These topics are on predominant issues currently affecting Britain and many other countries so hardly surprising people want to talk about it.

By the length of these threads many are interested, so it is not for others to try it dictate what subjects should/should not be discussed. As someone previously mentioned there is nothing stopping anyone from creating other threads.

[Northern Monkey]

Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.

I don't know

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't know

It's not like it's in the rules that you must read and comment on every topic (or is it?I haven't actually read the rules)

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

It's not like it's in the rules that you must read and comment on every topic (or is it?I haven't actually read the rules)

Rule 1 of SD participation

You will read, digest and comment on every thread that involves immigration, Isis and muslims

End of rules

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.

It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate

x 1000

A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute ... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.

I speak from vast experience on this topic.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles

Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.


As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind , though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.

Debate

noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? )

Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.

I do this too

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Maru

x 1000

A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute ... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.

I speak from vast experience on this topic.



Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.


As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind , though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.

Debate

noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? )

Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.

I think i fall into the not the longform poster type.When i do get chance to read your posts i very much enjoy them.They are always interesting and i learn something from them.
However i'm not a fast reader.I don't struggle to read,i'm just not the quickest.Alot of times if i see more than two paragraphs i'll 'leave it til later' only sometimes later never comes