[Withano]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Firstly,I came from a Conservative background and was a supporter until I was 18.
However now 24 over the years I have come to see things differently,so it is not a left wing obsession as to the Mail in fact it is fact.
This is the paper that shockingly slandered Miliband's Father on its front pages, if you cannot see that the Mail is heavily prejudiced to the right as against the left, that is not my problem.

This man Mair, please do not infer mental illness, that cop out for so many rotten crimes.
This man researched,acquired the weapons, planned and executed his crime no less so than the vile murderers of Lee Rigby.
Who also were deliberately targetting a Soldier, because they hate the British armed forces.

This man in the end targetted this MP, because her views differed from his and all he had become obsessed with as to believing was right from his vile collection of memorabilia and reading matter.

The worst thing anyone can do, in my view, is to try to say he has a mental illness.
No he has not, he was able to sit in court all trough his trial, refuse to take the stand and was fully able to plan this atrocious act, long before enacting it too.

He is a terrorist, he should be treated like one, no way should mental illness get more stigmatised by people claiming he has a mental illness, none of which was said in court or before or after this case either.
I would imagine anyone reading your post claiming he is mentally ill to have done this, who themselves may have any mental issues would be horrified by your words.

No way should he be justified even in any small way whatsoever for this act and certainly not by playing a mental illness card..

Everything about this is brilliant

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The title of this thread is when is a terrorist not a terrorist, it is perfectly in order to point out if someone sees it that way, that the murderers of Lee Rigby were terrorists, thereby then making a conclusion as to if they see this man Mair as one too.

In both cases, the victims were not just murdered, they were brutally murdered with no chance to defend themselves, both were just doing their jobs in and for the UK and in their careers, they were both murdered for what they stood for and believed in.

No trace or mention of mental illness offered officially at their trials and all would have been seen be medical staff.
I see a strong connection as to the 2, both victims of the establishment one a serving Soldier another a serving MP.
he is a terrorist, pure and simple in my book, no matter ow you may want to dress him up as even just maybe, not certainly, mentally ill.

I still say that is an affront to people who are genuinely mentally ill, that savage pre-meditated murderers like this have anyone soiling the illness, by claiming that is part of the reason for their vile, savage and planned actions.

Mental illness comes in all shapes and sizes, with violence often being a consequence. That is in no way saying that everyione with mental illness is violent or dangerous or that those that are are necessarily responsible for their actions. Every case is different. He may simply be an evil 'b****rd', but still not convinced this makes him a 'terrorist'.

It is pretty obvious that the op has an agenda in attempting to state that not all terrorists are Muslims', but no one is saying they are. Of course there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists, including white ones. But currently, in the West, those posing a threat to our way of life and causing widespread concern are. In my opinion, this makes the thread rather pointless.

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Mental illness comes in all shapes and sizes, with violence often being a consequence. That is in no way saying that everyione with mental illness is violent or dangerous or that those that are are necessarily responsible for their actions. Every case is different. He may simply be an evil 'b****rd', but still not convinced this makes him a 'terrorist'.

It is pretty obvious that the op has an agenda in attempting to state that not all terrorists are Muslims', but no one is saying they are. Of course there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists, including white ones. But currently, in the West, those posing a threat to our way of life and causing widespread concern are. In my opinion, this makes the thread rather pointless.

great point and I will just point out - there is no difference from being mentally ill or having cancer - neither did the person ask for and as a caring society it is only right we look after and help as best we can.


I bring terror with my poems - am I a terrorist

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Mail may lean to the right, just as others lean to the left, but I don't see people constantly slagging-off the left-leaners (newspapers) in an attempt to discredit other posters' opinions in the way some some left-leaners on here constantly do. Some are so obsessed with their hatred of a newspaper and so pedicable you are just waiting for the inevitable 'tantrum'. It's so boring.

I still feel there is evidence to suggest the MP's killer maybe mentally ill. That in no way lessens the horror of his crime, but it certainly needs to be completely ruled out first. Either way he will be taken off the streets to keep the rest of us safe.

I don't believe comparing him to the killers of Lee Rigby is constructive. I think these cases were entirely different with the former posing much more of a risk to our society in general. They are religous zealots ( and I use the word 'religous' very loosely) as their idea of religion is power and control. I feel the other is simply one of society's mis-fits, for whatever reason, making any kind of comparison fruitless.

excellent points

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by waterhog

great point and I will just point out - there is no difference from being mentally ill or having cancer - neither did the person ask for and as a caring society it is only right we look after and help as best we can.


I bring terror with my poems - am I a terrorist

I find some extreme left views and ideologies quite terrifying so where do we draw the line. One man's terror is another's ...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I made sensible posts as well they are just not to your liking, so you try to bully me

If you have I apologise, I must have missed it. I'm not a bully.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Mail may lean to the right, just as others lean to the left, but I don't see people constantly slagging-off the left-leaners (newspapers) in an attempt to discredit other posters' opinions in the way some some left-leaners on here constantly do. Some are so obsessed with their hatred of a newspaper and so pedicable you are just waiting for the inevitable 'tantrum'. It's so boring.

I still feel there is evidence to suggest the MP's killer maybe mentally ill. That in no way lessens the horror of his crime, but it certainly needs to be completely ruled out first. Either way he will be taken off the streets to keep the rest of us safe.

I don't believe comparing him to the killers of Lee Rigby is constructive. I think these cases were entirely different with the former posing much more of a risk to our society in general. They are religous zealots ( and I use the word 'religous' very loosely) as their idea of religion is power and control. I feel the other is simply one of society's mis-fits, for whatever reason, making any kind of comparison fruitless.

It is entirely apt to draw a comparison between the two as Lee Rigbys killers did so not due to any religious extremism but as a reaction to British foreign policy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Mental illness comes in all shapes and sizes, with violence often being a consequence. That is in no way saying that everyione with mental illness is violent or dangerous or that those that are are necessarily responsible for their actions. Every case is different. He may simply be an evil 'b****rd', but still not convinced this makes him a 'terrorist'.

It is pretty obvious that the op has an agenda in attempting to state that not all terrorists are Muslims', but no one is saying they are. Of course there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists, including white ones. But currently, in the West, those posing a threat to our way of life and causing widespread concern are. In my opinion, this makes the thread rather pointless.

I disagree I would say equal or greater is the rise of the supremacists, they are a threat to our human rights which we have founded our democracy on in modern times.
If you consider the thread pointless feel free to post elsewhere and allow those who wish to continue the debate to do so.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I disagree I would say equal or greater is the rise of the supremacists, they are a threat to our human rights which we have founded our democracy on in modern times.
If you consider the thread pointless feel free to post elsewhere and allow those who wish to continue the debate to do so.

I disagree. Unfortunately one is a direct result of the other. When you push people too far and put the needs of people coming into the country over and above those of the indigenous population, and at their expense, the boundaries on things like democracy and human rights start to become blurred especially when their views on democracy and human rights are at odds with those already here.

Many have died to preserve the democratic freedoms and prosperous way of life in the West, and to disrespect their sacrifice demonstrates indifference and lack of respect. I can't imagine many of those so happy to risk giving away our future freedoms would be so brave. The short-sightedness of many is disturbing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you have I apologise, I must have missed it. I'm not a bully.

Apology accepted :

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I disagree. Unfortunately one is a direct result of the other. When you push people too far and put the needs of people coming into the country over and above those of the indigenous population, and at their expense, the boundaries on things like democracy and human rights start to become blurred especially when their views on democracy and human rights are at odds with those already here.

Many have died to preserve the democratic freedoms and prosperous way of life in the West, and to disrespect their sacrifice demonstrates indifference and lack of respect. I can't imagine many of those so happy to risk giving away our future freedoms would be so brave. The short-sightedness of many is disturbing.

No, I most certanly do NOT subscribe to that, as I made clear on another thread there are no actions, no words that justifies any form of supremacist uprising. NONE.
I've seen this suggested a few times now and it's as distasteful as it is excusatory.

I appreciate that many died to ensure our continued freedom in the west, it's exactly this they were fighting against Brillopad.
To me the fact you can't see that is the greatest example of short sightedness.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Apology accepted :

You're very welcome.

still haven't found that sensible post btw... Are you sure it was this thread sweetie?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, I most certanly do NOT subscribe to that, as I made clear on another thread there are no actions, no words that justifies any form of supremacist uprising. NONE.
I've seen this suggested a few times now and it's as distasteful as it is excusatory.

I appreciate that many died to ensure our continued freedom in the west, it's exactly this they were fighting against Brillopad.
To me the fact you can't see that is the greatest example of short sightedness.

Yes they made this sacrifice to preserve these freedoms but I do not believe they would have done so if they could see how easily idealistic and naive future generations would put them at risk?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Yes they made this sacrifice to preserve these freedoms but I do not believe they would have done so if they could see how easily idealistic and naive future generations would put them at risk?

Those human rights as legislated for by us post war are at risk, not from any external force but from our own government.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I find some extreme left views and ideologies quite terrifying so where do we draw the line. One man's terror is another's ...

Which ones?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You're very welcome.

still haven't found that sensible post btw... Are you sure it was this thread sweetie?