[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You know, I do find it odd how against a Scottish Indy ref English people seem to be. I mean... You don't live here and therefore aren't affected by it directly... And APPARENTLY Scotland is nothing but a drain on UK funds being propped up by the English taxpayer... So why so against it? Why are you so bothered by it?

Is it simply because you find the notion that a large chunk of Scottish people don't want to be a part of Precious Britain offensive? Is it a "How dare you!" thing?

Unfortunately you have misread the situation, happy for you to have it, just don't want it to be a distraction during the Brexit it talks, better together once we don't suffer because of your antics

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Scotland wouldn't leave if there was another Ref now. It would be better to do the vote ASAP and get it out the way.

I sort of agree but then, on the other hand, this was Camerosborne's exact thinking with the Brexit referendum . That's why there was no plan for it and its all such a colossal mess. They were absolutely positive that it wouldn't be "leave" so they called it to get it out of the way and move on... Wups. We know how that turned out.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't care about Sturgeon's motives, she's a toad.

I just think that Scotland has the grounds to demand another referendum as does NI if they want to rejoin Ireland or go it alone. Like I said before, if they decide to stay then they face the carnage with the rest of us but we can't force them to stay by denying a referendum. We could very well be forcing their hand if we make them wait.

Scotland wouldn't leave if there was another Ref now. It would be better to do the vote ASAP and get it out the way then allow the embitterment and resentment to grow and cause Scotland to break away when we're in a sensitive position post brexit.

Better to go through Brexit knowing that we stand united.

That's a good point I guess, the problem is the getting the timing right so it doesn't distract from the Brexit Deal or No Deal

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Unfortunately you have misread the situation, happy for you to have it, just don't want it to be a distraction during the Brexit it talks, better together once we don't suffer because of your antics

Ohhh so you want to keep hold of your vassal until you can secure a better deal for yourselves, and then it doesn't matter any more, even if it's detrimental to Scotland to wait until after full Brexit to break away. Gotcha.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Ohhh so you want to keep hold of your vassal until you can secure a better deal for yourselves, and then it doesn't matter any more, even if it's detrimental to Scotland to wait until after full Brexit to break away. Gotcha.

I want the best deal for the UK, once that is done you can stay or you can go, it makes no odds to the majority of people south of the border

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The situation is completely different, the Scottish referendum was held prior to the EU Ref which pretty much showed the world that Scotland has no say in what happens in the union. The slogans that the 'in' side used 'Better Together' turned out to be 'Better as England's bitch'.

The consequences of leaving the EU were laid bare for all to see for months beforehand yet Leavers chose to make the wrong decision anyway, they deserve what they're gonna get but Scotland didn't vote to remain in the UK to have no say in what happens. I think it's very fair that they get a do-over because the situation has changed, Scotland has been thrust into uncertain waters through no choice of their own, I think NI are entitled to leave if they wish as well.

The EU situation hasn't changed, it was a bad prospect when Leave won and it's still a bad prospect now. To compare it to the Scottish Referendum is rather flawed logic because that situation has changed.

Keep trying, Cherie.

It's only a bad prospect if you believe that. The consequences of Brexit are an unknown quantity not a foregone conclusion so let's remember your opinion on this is opinion, not fact. Keep trying.

[Tom4784]

[QUOTE=Cherie;9252826]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You see, Cherie. London is a city where as Scotland is a country. Do I REALLY have to explain the differences to you between the two and why a city becoming independent is a world apart than a country?



[/The capital was shown to be monumentaly out-of-step wit the rest of Britain after largely voting Remain while the nation voted to Leave the EU.

But today the disconnect was heightened further as London's army of Bremain-backing resident called on the city's new mayor Sadiq Khan, to declare Greater London and its nine

million population an independent state.

Breakaway campaigners then want London to join Scotland in a new referendum which would allow them to re-join the EU.

So far, nearly 65,000 people have signed a petition asking Labour's Mr Khan "to declare London independent, and apply to join the EU".

It goes on to ask Mr Khan to "make the divorce official and move in with our friends on the continent".

It doesn't change the fact that it's a city and a city seeking and gaining independence from a country is a whole other kettle of fish to a country seeking independence from a union.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I want the best deal for the UK, once that is done you can stay or you can go, it makes no odds to the majority of people south of the border

Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It doesn't change the fact that it's a city and a city seeking and gaining independence from a country is a whole other kettle of fish to a country seeking independence from a union.

All the London comparisons really do is confirm that certain people in England see Scotland simply as a region of England, and not a separate country.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You know, I do find it odd how against a Scottish Indy ref English people seem to be. I mean... You don't live here and therefore aren't affected by it directly... And APPARENTLY Scotland is nothing but a drain on UK funds being propped up by the English taxpayer... So why so against it? Why are you so bothered by it?

Is it simply because you find the notion that a large chunk of Scottish people don't want to be a part of Precious Britain offensive? Is it a "How dare you!" thing?

We're like cats, it's ours. But seriously, I've always thought of Scotland as part of our country, it seems bizarre to think otherwise. I also have Scottish rellies and they don't want to be independent. They are pretty sick and tired of the whole issue. However if the majority of Scottish people and not just the SNP want another referendum at some point they should have one. This is definitely not the time to give it due and appropriate attention.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

Your prejudice is showing again.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Your prejudice is showing again.

Look up prejudice.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

All the London comparisons really do is confirm that certain people in England see Scotland simply as a region of England, and not a separate country.

Originally Posted by jaxie

But seriously, I've always thought of Scotland as part of our country, it seems bizarre to think otherwise.

Oh look, there we go.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh look, there we go.

I can't help it that you don't think of the union as one nation, but that's more or less where we have been at for 300 years.

I've been kind of shocked by the anti English hate from apparent Scots on the net. I never thought of it as being that way.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I can't help it that you don't think of the union as one nation, but that's more or less where we have been at for 300 years.

I've been kind of shocked by the anti English hate from apparent Scots on the net. I never thought of it as being that way.

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members .

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members .

Scotland is part of the Union. You are mistaking England for the only country in the union but the union does make us one nation.

I've seen a lot worse said about the English by Scots than vice versa and you keep saying your wife is English and then making sweeping negative statements about the English.

I'm pro union but I'd be very surprised if you can find a post by me making generalised statements calling Scottish people names.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members .

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members .

I am against Westminster rule of anywhere tbh. I wish there was a way for each County 'rule' its people. Delegate cash per head or something and then each area makes up its own 'rules. The way things are, it seems only London and the rich actually matter...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

Unfortunately for you, your fellow Scots chose to remain in the Union, if you wanted another referendum, maybe it should have been called for in July 2016, it could have all been done and dusted by now, instead your leader waits quite cynically until the 11th hour and now that we are about to trigger Article 50 calls for an independence ref, its just not on, its selfish, self serving and shows all she cares about is herself and her place in history. We can get a deal on our own merits but two major deals like this cannot be made at the same time, its unrealistic.

[Cherie]

The only anti Scottish sentiment on this thread is in reference to the timing of the SNPs call for a second referendum and for anyone in Scotland who thinks this is a great idea to have a ref in the middle of Brexit, it shows a crass disrespect for the rest of the union, from what I have seen its pretty 50/50 on the forum from the Scottish members as to those that want one and those that don't, your country is about to be divided again, well done Nicola

[user104658]

My apologies; most of it is on the other thread.

Originally Posted by Adam.

They will just become a poor country they will have no income anywhere

Originally Posted by ebandit

...think of all the engleeesh whom
would vote the scots ooot?

Originally Posted by Adam.

the EU wont give you the money the UK does.

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Scotland needs to go.

the English should just vote them out of the union.

It is time to trim the fat!

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Scotland should be given an ultimatum, leave the union or lose all sovereignty.

Hopefully that will be enough to make them leave, and we wont have to deal with them anymore.

Originally Posted by Cherie

The scots leaving won't affect anyone tbh

Originally Posted by jaxie

do I really personally care if Scotland choose to go? Not losing any sleep over it.

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Scotland: too small to be its own country. Too big to be an insane asylum.

I only made it about 1/4 of the way through. There's plenty of other examples that basically describe Scotland as a joke country that relies on England to survive, though. Feel free to brush up .

[jaxie]

You are seriously clutching if you think some of what you quoted there is anti Scottish. I agree some of it is rude but I've seen you be just as rude TS.

I am sorry if you think that my not losing sleep should Scotland choose to go is offensive. I could always set up an alarm one night if it helps. Far be it from me to sleep well if someone else makes a decision to leave.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My apologies; most of it is on the other thread.

































I only made it about 1/4 of the way through. There's plenty of other examples that basically describe Scotland as a joke country that relies on England to survive, though. Feel free to brush up .

In regards to the last post you quoted Scotland is a similar size to us and we're fine

Out of interest TS what does your wife think about it?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In regards to the last post you quoted Scotland is a similar size to us and we're fine

Out of interest TS what does your wife think about it?

She's even more pro-indy than I am, both this time and last time . She had a lifelong ambition to live in Scotland though. I wonder if I should start questioning her motivations for marriage ...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

She's even more pro-indy than I am, both this time and last time . She had a lifelong ambition to live in Scotland though. I wonder if I should start questioning her motivations for marriage ...

the accent probably