[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think it's more reliable than your PERCEPTION as you don't live there.

A worthless comment that doesn't prove or disprove anything. I looked into the numbers myself and the only city I could find that were diverse in range was Bradford and even then Christians and white people were still the comfortable majority thus the perception that white/christian people are becoming a minority is a ridiculous one.

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/open-dat...ts/population/

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's her perception that she's a minority, it's not factual unless she can provide evidence. I doubt very much that a white christian/atheist/agnostic (whichever she is) person in Yorkshire is a minority.

Things change and grow, life is not stagnant and neither is culture. As an elderly woman who has seen so much change in her life, you'd think she'd understand that. It sounds like she remembers when the community was mostly white and dislikes the idea of diversity, her community hasn't been lost, it's evolved and I doubt it's changed that much that she's now a minority, that's just a fear that ignorant people have.

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A worthless comment that doesn't prove or disprove anything. I looked into the numbers myself and the only city I could find that were diverse in range was Bradford and even then Christians and white people were still the comfortable majority thus the perception that white/christian people are becoming a minority is a ridiculous one.

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/open-dat...ts/population/

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

Having an aggressive tone is not an indicator of intelligence in my book Tozzie

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

You are right Cherie, I don't live in Bradford

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

Because I was looking at the various censuses from different parts of Yorkshire and Bradford's was the only really diverse one I could find and even then the majority is still White/Christian, since that's the case then Tozzie's claims of feeling like a minority aren't likely true given that I've not come across one census that paints white/christian people as a minority. If you read my previous post then you'd have understood that.

Tozzie provided figures without a source, I produced figures that were backed up by a source. The official figures are factual, Tozzie's opinion and perception is not.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

It's not about intelligence and nothing in this topic is indicative of anyone being better than anyone else. It's a debate and all I've done is not accept your version of events because I've found evidence that suggests the contrary to what you are saying.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because I was looking at the various censuses from different parts of Yorkshire and Bradford's was the only really diverse one I could find and even then the majority is still White/Christian, since that's the case then Tozzie's claims of feeling like a minority aren't likely true given that I've not come across one census that paints white/christian people as a minority. If you read my previous post then you'd have understood that.

Tozzie provided figures without a source, I produced figures that were backed up by a source. The official figures are factual, Tozzie's opinion and perception is not.

excuse me I do not tell lies. I am not claiming anything, it is a reality where I live.

[Niamh.]

tbf though Tozzie, you can't just say well I live here so my view is right and yours is wrong and that's the end of it. This is the debate section and Dezzy is debating with you, you're using personal experience and he's using figures from studies etc no one is calling anyone stupid :/

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

excuse me I do not tell lies. I am not claiming anything, it is a reality where I live.

I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think your perception of things is entirely reflective of the citizenship of your area.

[DemolitionRed]

The top local authorities in England and Wales with the highest percent of Muslims in 2011 were:

London Borough of Tower Hamlets 34.5% 87,696.
London Borough of Newham 32.0% 98,456.
Blackburn with Darwen 27.4% 38,817.
City of Bradford 24.7% 129,041.
Luton 24.6% 49,991.
London Borough of Redbridge 23.3% 64,999.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_...United_Kingdom

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The top local authorities in England and Wales with the highest percent of Muslims in 2011 were:

London Borough of Tower Hamlets 34.5% 87,696.
London Borough of Newham 32.0% 98,456.
Blackburn with Darwen 27.4% 38,817.
City of Bradford 24.7% 129,041.
Luton 24.6% 49,991.
London Borough of Redbridge 23.3% 64,999.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_...United_Kingdom

This was in 2011, wonder what the stats are now, I can't find any after 2011

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think your perception of things is entirely reflective of the citizenship of your area.

If you visited where I live you would understand what I am saying

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

The thing is, I feel like you may be seeing some changes and attributing them to immigration and cultural differences when they are perhaps coincidental in many ways. My wife is from a market town in the North of England, I lived there with her for three years. All of the older generations talk about how it used to have a thriving, vibrant local market where people came from up to 50 miles away every week. Nice place, friendly locals, etc.

It is not like that now. It is an absolute ****hole and what is left of the market is, frankly, disgusting. Tat and (probably) stolen goods. The town itself is run down, the people are drunk/high and aggressive, and it's basically just an unpleasant place to be, let alone live.

It is still 99% white British. These people are all locals born and bred.

I feel like you are seeing the changes in small towns / communities that are occurring everywhere and you are assuming that immigration is the cause. I suspect you'd find, if there had been no immigration at all, you'd still have the same complaints about the area and the people.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

100% agree Tozzie,I will live happily with any race,colour or creed but NOT when they are trying to force their will on me or my country,we don't do it there,we are not allowed to,so they are welcome here but you are governed by our rules and speak our language at the very least.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

This was in 2011, wonder what the stats are now, I can't find any after 2011

The last census was in 2011 so the figures are seriously out of date

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is, I feel like you may be seeing some changes and attributing them to immigration and cultural differences when they are perhaps coincidental in many ways. My wife is from a market town in the North of England, I lived there with her for three years. All of the older generations talk about how it used to have a thriving, vibrant local market where people came from up to 50 miles away every week. Nice place, friendly locals, etc.

It is not like that now. It is an absolute ****hole and what is left of the market is, frankly, disgusting. Tat and (probably) stolen goods. The town itself is run down, the people are drunk/high and aggressive, and it's basically just an unpleasant place to be, let alone live.

It is still 99% white British. These people are all locals born and bred.


I feel like you are seeing the changes in small towns / communities that are occurring everywhere and you are assuming that immigration is the cause. I suspect you'd find, if there had been no immigration at all, you'd still have the same complaints about the area and the people.

That's your experience are you seriously suggesting Tozzie can't identify a white Brit

[Cherie]

This link shows estimates per region from 2011 to March 2015, add another two years figures on top you might get closer to the truth, ignoring all the illegals of course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31748422

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That's your experience are you seriously suggesting Tozzie can't identify a white Brit

No and that's not my point. I'm not saying the people in her area are secretly white. I'm saying that a LOT of previously nice, friendly market towns have gone to sh** in the last couple of decades and it has very little to do with "dirty immigrants". It's happening in towns where there is very little immigration, too. Immigrants are somewhat of a scapegoat and the town wouldn't be any better if there had been less... It's just that the "unfriendly faces" would be white British ones.

[Northern Monkey]

Youtube video

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No and that's not my point. I'm not saying the people in her area are secretly white. I'm saying that a LOT of previously nice, friendly market towns have gone to sh** in the last couple of decades and it has very little to do with "dirty immigrants". It's happening in towns where there is very little immigration, too. Immigrants are somewhat of a scapegoat and the town wouldn't be any better if there had been less... It's just that the "unfriendly faces" would be white British ones.

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole

I don't see the relevance of the skin colour of the people living in ****holes?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't see the relevance of the skin colour of the people living in ****holes?

you saw the relevance of pointing out that your wife's ****hole town was 99 per cent white British

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole

But there's a difference between "There are sh*tholes everywhere regardless of race colour and creed" and "This one is a sh*thole BECAUSE of immigration".

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

you saw the relevance of pointing out that your wife's ****hole town was 99 per cent white British

To prove you don't have to be Asian to be a sh*t head?