[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

In your opinion unless you can provide facts and figures? Immigrants have generally settled in their own communities, it doesn't mean they haven't integrated or been accepted, maybe it's different here in London but in the main immigrants are accepted, not sure what it's like up North but you can't speak for the whole country on this issue

OK it's for no reason at all, immigrants in the US are just magically nicer than immigrants here and that's why we have more attacks. Just totally random. That's probably it.

[edit] Also, just to add, that post was specifically in quoted response to the question; Why do you think that is?

One might assume that this would be enough for anyone reading to deduce that the reply is, indeed, "why I think that is", or in other words, my opinion. I apologise if that wasn't clear enough. Apparently it's an ongoing issue, people assuming that I "think I know it all" because I don't plaster my posts with "maybe" and "in my opinion" - but I can certainly do so in future if it makes things easier.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

OK it's for no reason at all, immigrants in the US are just magically nicer than immigrants here and that's why we have more attacks. Just totally random. That's probably it.

9/11 anyone also if that's the case it puts and end to the theory its all our own fault for getting involved in the wars

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

9/11 anyone

None of them were US citizens or residents??? Jesus wept Cherie if you're going to post about terrorism at least have a vague working knowledge of the worst terrorist attack in recent memory .

Sorry, wait, in my opinion none of them were American. And you know. In the opinion of objective facts.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

None of them were US citizens or residents??? Jesus wept Cherie if you're going to post about terrorism at least have a vague working knowledge of the worst terrorist attack in recent memory .

Sorry, wait, in my opinion none of them were American. And you know. In the opinion of objective facts.

How come they don't blame their adopted homeland for problems in Iraq, Syria etc

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How come they don't blame their adopted homeland for problems in Iraq, Syria etc

I'm sure plenty of them do? Just like plenty of non-immigrants do. There's a big difference between someone that sees the problems caused by western interference and the middle east, and a radicalized religious extremist. The point is that people who feel welcomed and accepted in their host countries are far less likely to want to harm anyone there, or to feel frustrated and outcast enough to turn to extremist rhetoric for answers, than those who are demonized and ostracized. That should surely be pretty obvious?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm sure plenty of them do? Just like plenty of non-immigrants do. There's a big difference between someone that sees the problems caused by western interference and the middle east, and a radicalized religious extremist. The point is that people who feel welcomed and accepted in their host countries are far less likely to want to harm anyone there, or to feel frustrated and outcast enough to turn to extremist rhetoric for answers, than those who are demonized and ostracized. That should surely be pretty obvious?

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

You are missing the point, what TS is highlighting are reasons the communities may not want to or find it hard to integrate.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

But the question is why is it different in other countries, why aren't they having the same problems (to the same degree) with their own migrant Muslim communities.

We have already established as fact that it's not because "they haven't let them in" - there are more Muslim immigrants in the US than there are in the UK - and so, why do YOU think they seem to have fewer problems? Are they different Muslims, from different places? No, they are from the same countries as the Muslim migrants who come to the UK...

So if it's the same people, from the same countries, and there are more of them in the US than there are in the UK, and yet (by your own statement) they don't seem to have the same problems with radical Islam... But you claim that this has nothing to do with actions and attitudes in the host nation... Then pray tell Brillo - what is it? What is the difference?

I know what you WANT to be able to say, and that's "they don't let them in". But that is simply false. The numbers are available, and it is just quite simply not correct. So... If you will take a second away from your busy schedule of poo-pooing other people's suggestions, I would love to hear your own, personal, original thoughts on why you think there is a difference.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm sure plenty of them do? Just like plenty of non-immigrants do. There's a big difference between someone that sees the problems caused by western interference and the middle east, and a radicalized religious extremist. The point is that people who feel welcomed and accepted in their host countries are far less likely to want to harm anyone there, or to feel frustrated and outcast enough to turn to extremist rhetoric for answers, than those who are demonized and ostracized. That should surely be pretty obvious?

I literally don't see that, diversity is very much encouraged, it is taught in schools, they celebrate Eid and other religious festivals, the kids get days off to celebrate while the schools remain open to other kids (only for Eid and Diwali), I think London at any rate bends over backwards to integrate minorities, these guys were British born, they would have gone to same type of school as my kids where 95 per cent of the school community were black or Asian so how can you say they feel isolated? my kids who were in the minority and I could upload school photos of their secondary school year groups where they were one of the few white faces, they didn't have an issue with being white in an practically all Asian school and neither did I or their Dad, my community is probably 70/30 Asian, once again and I agree with Brillo here you are blaming society when you should be blaming evil and desire to be in control from a minority.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I literally don't see that, diversity is very much encouraged, it is taught in schools, they celebrate Eid and other religious festivals, the kids get days off to celebrate while the schools remain open to other kids (only for Eid and Diwali), I think London at any rate bends over backwards to integrate minorities, these guys were British born, they would have gone to same type of school as my kids where 95 per cent of the school community were black or Asian so how can you say they feel isolated? my kids who were in the minority and I could upload school photos of their secondary school year groups where they were one of the few white faces, they didn't have an issue with being white in an practically all Asian school and neither did I or their Dad, my community is probably 70/30 Asian, once again and I agree with Brillo here you are blaming society when you should be blaming evil and desire to be in control from a minority.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I literally don't see that, diversity is very much encouraged, it is taught in schools, they celebrate Eid and other religious festivals, the kids get days off to celebrate while the schools remain open to other kids (only for Eid and Diwali), I think London at any rate bends over backwards to integrate minorities, these guys were British born, they would have gone to same type of school as my kids where 95 per cent of the school community were black or Asian so how can you say they feel isolated? my kids who were in the minority and I could upload school photos of their secondary school year groups where they were one of the few white faces, they didn't have an issue with being white in an practically all Asian school and neither did I or their Dad, my community is probably 70/30 Asian, once again and I agree with Brillo here you are blaming society when you should be blaming evil and desire to be in control from a minority.

All I can do is ask you the same question I just asked Brillo;

So if it's the same people, from the same countries, and there are more of them in the US than there are in the UK, and yet (by your own statement) they don't seem to have the same problems with radical Islam... But you claim that this has nothing to do with actions and attitudes in the host nation... Then pray tell Brillo - what is it? What is the difference?

I know what you WANT to be able to say, and that's "they don't let them in". But that is simply false. The numbers are available, and it is just quite simply not correct. So... If you will take a second away from your busy schedule of poo-pooing other people's suggestions, I would love to hear your own, personal, original thoughts on why you think there is a difference.

You have plenty to say when it comes to reading posts and saying "that's not the case", but the question I've been attempting to address is "Why is there a difference between Muslims in certain other countries and Muslims in the UK; why doe some seem to have fewer problems".

Your answer, that it's just an inherent problem with a random minority taking control of others, doesn't make sense as an answer to that question. So in your opinion; why is there a difference?

To be fair I'm not sure if you've said that you think there is one, you might think that all countries are having the same issues. But Brillo did outright state that not all countries are having the problems the UK is having.

IF that is true - there is only ONE variable. The country itself. That is literally the only answer there can be, in my opinion, and by the rules of formal logic.