[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm sure plenty of them do? Just like plenty of non-immigrants do. There's a big difference between someone that sees the problems caused by western interference and the middle east, and a radicalized religious extremist. The point is that people who feel welcomed and accepted in their host countries are far less likely to want to harm anyone there, or to feel frustrated and outcast enough to turn to extremist rhetoric for answers, than those who are demonized and ostracized. That should surely be pretty obvious?

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

You are missing the point, what TS is highlighting are reasons the communities may not want to or find it hard to integrate.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is obvious to me is that the mindset that blames a lack of integration on non-Muslims alone without any mention of the role Muslims play in that is without credibility.

Many Muslims alienate themselves by their own actions and refusal to integrate into Western society - that is their choice and their responsibility. Why do you always try to make it a non-Muslim Problem - it isn't.

And whilst you continue to insist it is the evil 'racists' that are to blame for all the problems and not holding the Muslim community to account in any way for their attitudes and part to play in these problems - it's all a crock of pointless s***e.

But the question is why is it different in other countries, why aren't they having the same problems (to the same degree) with their own migrant Muslim communities.

We have already established as fact that it's not because "they haven't let them in" - there are more Muslim immigrants in the US than there are in the UK - and so, why do YOU think they seem to have fewer problems? Are they different Muslims, from different places? No, they are from the same countries as the Muslim migrants who come to the UK...

So if it's the same people, from the same countries, and there are more of them in the US than there are in the UK, and yet (by your own statement) they don't seem to have the same problems with radical Islam... But you claim that this has nothing to do with actions and attitudes in the host nation... Then pray tell Brillo - what is it? What is the difference?

I know what you WANT to be able to say, and that's "they don't let them in". But that is simply false. The numbers are available, and it is just quite simply not correct. So... If you will take a second away from your busy schedule of poo-pooing other people's suggestions, I would love to hear your own, personal, original thoughts on why you think there is a difference.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But the question is why is it different in other countries, why aren't they having the same problems (to the same degree) with their own migrant Muslim communities.

We have already established as fact that it's not because "they haven't let them in" - there are more Muslim immigrants in the US than there are in the UK - and so, why do YOU think they seem to have fewer problems? Are they different Muslims, from different places? No, they are from the same countries as the Muslim migrants who come to the UK...

So if it's the same people, from the same countries, and there are more of them in the US than there are in the UK, and yet (by your own statement) they don't seem to have the same problems with radical Islam... But you claim that this has nothing to do with actions and attitudes in the host nation... Then pray tell Brillo - what is it? What is the difference?

I know what you WANT to be able to say, and that's "they don't let them in". But that is simply false. The numbers are available, and it is just quite simply not correct. So... If you will take a second away from your busy schedule of poo-pooing other people's suggestions, I would love to hear your own, personal, original thoughts on why you think there is a difference.

Muslims are around 1% of the US population and i'd bet that the majority aren't crammed together in little ghettos.
They make up 4.4% of the UK.
Now look at other countries other than the US.
France,Belgium,Germany,Sweden,Italy,Greece.

I'm not an 'all muslims are a problem' kind o guy
but i think we do have to accept that they do bring ideological problems along with them.
Islam is opposed to western culture.Most muslims manage to somehow reconcile that with living in the west but there is that small section who don't and are more susceptible to radicalisation.
I'm not discounting that the groomers use our foreign policy as a cherry on top to help them get people to their way of thinking too but it is an ideology that is the core of the problem imo.