[AnnieK]

I have a child and if someone said what isobelle said...yes it would stop me.in my tracks but it would not give me.a.right to behave as appallingly as.lotan did. It would make me think **** you know theyre right.....if my son sees me acting like this what message am I giving him? That its ok to be vile, ostracise, intimidate and belittle another person...everything I teach him not to do. His friends parents also see that and then suddenly they.dont want their kids to play with him? His son shouldnt be in someone elses mind....but he should have been in lotans

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I have a child and if someone said what isobelle said...yes it would stop me.in my tracks but it would not give me.a.right to behave as appallingly as.lotan did. It would make me think **** you know theyre right.....if my son sees me acting like this what message am I giving him? That its ok to be vile, ostracise, intimidate and belittle another person...everything I teach him not to do. His friends parents also see that and then suddenly they.dont want their kids to play with him? His son shouldnt be in someone elses mind....but he should have been in lotans

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hopefully he will learn from this experience and become a better father for his child and patch things up with the boys mum and more forward in life

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah I do get that but it seemed like even in normal situations during the day when (I assume) no drink was involved the way he spoke to Isabelle was really awful, telling her she's irrelevant and not allowed to speak and calling her stupid etc

I honestly can't say one side was better than another, no-one has the high ground in that house. It is contrived. They even mentioned camera hogging twice in that fight segment alone

There were only 1 or 2 of them in there that could honestly say they werent involved, and none of those involved were without fault. Raph was as much to blame and as complicit as any of the rest of the aggressive, foul mouthed shower.

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by Garfie

In the diary room BB said the following to Lotan: "Big Brother has also spoken to you previously about isolating and intimidating behaviour, particularly towards women.....Last night you threw your drink angrily at Isabelle, Chanelle and Hannah and then threw the empty bottle across the room. Later in the bedroom and then in the Diary Room, you used threatening language about a fellow housemate....."

The fact that BB has mentioned that they have already spoken to Lotan about 'isolating and intimidating behaviour, particularly towards women' gives us a clear idea of how he has been behaving in general and shows this was not a one-off. If he has been constantly doing that to Isabelle, she obviously got to the point where she'd had enough when she made her comment. We saw him trying to belittle and humiliate her during the bottle game and this has been ongoing as BB mentions.

I think there was a massive over-reaction to what Isabelle said. She has not said he is a bad father or that his son would be ashamed of him. She has merely said he is a bad role model, and is therefore commenting on his behaviour in the house and not on his parenting.

BB's comments and the statement from The Dreamboys show that Isabelle is not the only one thinking he is a poor role model.

Lotan has behaved appallingly and pushed Isabelle to the point of making that comment. No-one is to blame for what happened to Lotan but Lotan himself.

Great post

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I honestly can't say one side was better than another, no-one has the high ground in that house. It is contrived. They even mentioned camera hogging twice in that fight segment alone

There were only 1 or 2 of them in there that could honestly say they werent involved, and none of those involved were without fault. Raph was as much to blame and as complicit as any of the rest of the aggressive, foul mouthed shower.

Why? All he did was try to keep his friends away from the fight, what was he supposed to do?

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by sampvt

You keep thinking that tom, Me and the rest of moral britain might disagree.

You have no idea what 'moral Britain' think

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think the throwing the drink in the face thing was what pushed BB over as obviously glass can slip and that could lead to life changing injury (and legal issues)?

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I have a child and if someone said what isobelle said...yes it would stop me.in my tracks but it would not give me.a.right to behave as appallingly as.lotan did. It would make me think **** you know theyre right.....if my son sees me acting like this what message am I giving him? That its ok to be vile, ostracise, intimidate and belittle another person...everything I teach him not to do. His friends parents also see that and then suddenly they.dont want their kids to play with him? His son shouldnt be in someone elses mind....but he should have been in lotans

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why? All he did was try to keep his friends away from the fight, what was he supposed to do?

ok, running to his girls feeding their aggression at every possible moment, winding them up into an aggressive frenzy knowing full well their tendency toward aggression.

As a further illumination, lets take the spilt water example where one of the sisters asked raph if the spilling of the water was an accident or intentional, and he said it was definitely intentional That feeds not very clever aggressive people, and he knows it, that's why he did it. He was very complicit.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

ok, running to his girls feeding their aggression at every possible moment, winding them up into an aggressive frenzy knowing full well their tendency toward aggression.

As a further illumination, lets take the spilt water example where one of the sisters asked raph if the spilling of the water was an accident or intentional, and he said it was definitely intentional That feeds not very clever aggressive people, and he knows it, that's why he did it. He was very complicit.

Ok but these were things that happened prior to "Fight Night" I was talking specifically about that night and he really did nothing but try to calm them down

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ok but these were things that happened prior to "Fight Night" I was talking specifically about that night and he really did nothing but try to calm them down

He lit the match, set the flame and waited for it to catch light. He is no little innocent boy. Easy to then act like butter wouldn't melt afterwards.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

He lit the match, set the flame and waited for it to catch light. He is no little innocent boy. Easy to then act like butter wouldn't melt afterwards.

ahhh I don't know if you can say that really, I think the problem between Lotan and the 4 girls would have been there regardless tbh Hannah went crazy when her friend Chanelle flicked her slipper at her too remember so it makes sense that she would totally freak out when it was someone she didn't like and an actual drink being thrown at her

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah exactly all that is awful behaviour and she was pointing that out to him. He doesn't deserve her respect, what she said was accurate and well deserved.

You're not being a good role model for your son means The way you're treating me isn't acceptable behaviour She said **** all about his son

I can't believe after all the things he did and said to her that people are saying what she said was worse, it's baffling tbh

She knew damm well that all she had to do was bring up the mere mention of his son or girlfriends names to use them as a trigger. I agree the content of her verbage was in whole pretty soft, but when you know that it has made him angry before, these outsiders act like a trigger to kick him off. She is a bitch and all bitches know how to push buttons. All she has is her figure and her false hair and false tan. What else does she have to work with, Kieran has already outed her as a sperm bank.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by sampvt

She knew damm well that all she had to do was bring up the mere mention of his son or girlfriends names to use them as a trigger. I agree the content of her verbage was in whole pretty soft, but when you know that it has made him angry before, these outsiders act like a trigger to kick him off. She is a bitch and all bitches know how to push buttons. All she has is her figure and her false hair and false tan. What else does she have to work with, Kieran has already outed her as a sperm bank.

You may be right Sam but it doesn't take away from the fact that A- She was correct, his behaviour towards her was appalling and B- He should be able to control himself better than that

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You may be right Sam but it doesn't take away from the fact that A- She was correct, his behaviour towards her was appalling and B- He should be able to control himself better than that

Next time you shout at one of your kids or hubby, leave it for a day or 2 and analise why you did it and were you right. If you feel you were wrong and could have handled it better, then that is the day you have discovered your own flash point. My flashpoint is way higher than my wifes, so we are all different. Obviously Miss Tangoed knew where Lotans flashpoint lay and she used it.

Emotions are very strong triggers. You can call a womans baby ugly and she will smack you but on the other hand you can call someone elses baby she ugly and she will walk away and laugh at you. same story different reactions.

All I am saying is that Miss Tangoed knows who has low flashpoints and how to tweek them. Mark my words, she will now start on Joe as he has a low FP but Kieran would destroy her by turning it back on her.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

ahhh I don't know if you can say that really, I think the problem between Lotan and the 4 girls would have been there regardless tbh Hannah went crazy when her friend Chanelle flicked her slipper at her too remember so it makes sense that she would totally freak out when it was someone she didn't like and an actual drink being thrown at her

i watched the whole thing back and all i could do was laugh. The way Chanelle jumped up in rage, you could see her winding herself up for her lions roar as she stood up. Debbie took her cue from that and joined in ... It was a pack mentality for sure.

The way lotan jumped in with rage. We can say it was a disrespect to his parenting, but the actual reason was the leadership of his pack was being challenged

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Next time you shout at one of your kids or hubby, leave it for a day or 2 and analise why you did it and were you right. If you feel you were wrong and could have handled it better, then that is the day you have discovered your own flash point. My flashpoint is way higher than my wifes, so we are all different. Obviously Miss Tangoed knew where Lotans flashpoint lay and she used it.

Emotions are very strong triggers. You can call a womans baby ugly and she will smack you but on the other hand you can call someone elses baby she ugly and she will walk away and laugh at you. same story different reactions.

All I am saying is that Miss Tangoed knows who has low flashpoints and how to tweek them. Mark my words, she will now start on Joe as he has a low FP but Kieran would destroy her by turning it back on her.

I do understand what you're saying Sam and I think there is a very strong possibility that you're right about Isabelle but she used this "skill" in retaliation to Lotan's actions, every action has a reaction so he caused this by treating her like a piece of s**t on his shoe so i have zero sympathy for him. It wasn't an unprovoked attack is what I'm saying. If she just said it out of the blue with no provocation than maybe I would have more sympathy for him but that's far from the case

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i watched the whole thing back and all i could do was laugh. The way Chanelle jumped up in rage, you could see her winding herself up for her lions roar as she stood up. Debbie took her cue from that and joined in ... It was a pack mentality for sure.

The way lotan jumped in with rage. We can say it was a disrespect to his parenting, but the actual reason was the leadership of his pack was being challenged

It's like Lord of the Flies in there BOTS

[sampvt]

The silly cow Channelle thinks she is the female version of lotan in the other clique, she keeps saying IM NOT HAVING THAT, who the feck gave her alpha status.

[sampvt]

Im not having that, wtf, who gave her alpha status. Thye all over reacted, including lotan.

[Withano]

Lotan only cared an ounce because it came out of Isabelles mouth, he was inching for a fight with her all night

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Most of this foprum would agree if it wasn't Lotan tbh

I wouldn't I've always found the whole "don't you dare bring up my (family member)" thing pretty pathetic.

[armand.kay]

I would like to think that if someone said that to my father he would keep his composure because you know he isn't an animal.

[Lostie!]

I won't condone what she said because it would be hypocritical of me, I think it's always a low blow to bring family into it. That said, I completely understand why she got angry enough to go there, he and his cronies were bullying her all throughout the evening and she snapped as anyone would when they're prodded enough. He brought it on himself.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

I wouldn't I've always found the whole "don't you dare bring up my (family member)" thing pretty pathetic.

Yeah, there's a difference in bringing up a family member in the way rebecca and Isabelle did and actually insulting a family member