[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that you see it as racism, I was talking in general about the internet reaction, in relation to your post. Sorry if it came across like that.

No worries

[Jamie89]

I don't find it racist at all tbh, and I doubt it will have been a calculated move either, I don't know why they'd see it as a good way of creating a talking point, Dove are a huge brand and something like a racism controversy would only damage them, they know they'd be more at risk of losing sales than increasing them so that doesn't make sense to me. It was a 3 second Facebook ad not a large marketing campaign so it's likely that any racist connotations were overlooked as less people will have been involved in the approval of it, as well as the fact that people only seemed to make the racist connection after the ad was screenshotted and taken out of context and put into a seperate post so it's not as though those connotations were glaringly obvious anyway - It's something that had to be pulled apart in order to find something racist in it rather than the complaints coming naturally from the ad itself, as far as I can tell.

Reactions like this could actually make companies like Dove more wary about using people of different races in their campaigns in the future out of fear of unforseen backlash so the people who are complaining should think about that and the impact they themselves might be having on diversity by choosing to pick apart and criticise something just because there is a black person in it, when it clearly wasn't intended as racist.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't find it racist at all tbh, and I doubt it will have been a calculated move either, I don't know why they'd see it as a good way of creating a talking point, Dove are a huge brand and something like a racism controversy would only damage them, they know they'd be more at risk of losing sales than increasing them so that doesn't make sense to me. It was a 3 second Facebook ad not a large marketing campaign so it's likely that any racist connotations were overlooked as less people will have been involved in the approval of it, as well as the fact that people only seemed to make the racist connection after the ad was screenshotted and taken out of context and put into a seperate post so it's not as though those connotations were glaringly obvious anyway - It's something that had to be pulled apart in order to find something racist in it rather than the complaints coming naturally from the ad itself, as far as I can tell.

Reactions like this could actually make companies like Dove more wary about using people of different races in their campaigns in the future out of fear of unforseen backlash so the people who are complaining should think about that and the impact they themselves might be having on diversity by choosing to pick apart and criticise something just because there is a black person in it, when it clearly wasn't intended as racist.

So you genuinely believe that at a multi-million pound company, with a huge marketing division full of highly paid professionals, who create adverts and keep their finger on the pulse of the public on a daily basis... not one person viewed the image of a black person removing their skin to reveal a white person - REGARDLESS OF INTENTION - and said "lol guys the internet is going to lose its **** over this".

I mean, come on.

If you had posted a sample of this on this forum, full of laypeople and ZERO advertising professionals, before it released and said "Will teh internets have a problem with this?", the answers would have ranged from "Yes, definitely" to "They shouldn't because it's PC gone mad but also yes because it's the internet".

Even the people who don't think it IS a problem still know that it WILL be a problem and that there will be a backlash.

But the at least 6 figure salary heads of avertising who have been in the ads game for decades at Dove, a Unilever company, one of the biggest parent companies in the world "got it wrong and didn't realise".

Jumping the shark majorly there let's face it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by y.winter

The "changing-shirt-becoming-someone-else" FX is not new on television, it has already been done in sports ads and included black/asian/white/latin people, metamorphosing into each other. It's always the same unity message of "we're all in this together, any kind of human being", and this was the same idea in the dove ad.
I find the whole drama around it very obnoxious and OTT (and I'm not surprised the screenshots were taken out of context). People need to calm down (and overall find better things to do online), not everything that includes white and black people is deliberately racist - some are, but not every little thing.

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't find it racist at all tbh, and I doubt it will have been a calculated move either, I don't know why they'd see it as a good way of creating a talking point, Dove are a huge brand and something like a racism controversy would only damage them, they know they'd be more at risk of losing sales than increasing them so that doesn't make sense to me. It was a 3 second Facebook ad not a large marketing campaign so it's likely that any racist connotations were overlooked as less people will have been involved in the approval of it, as well as the fact that people only seemed to make the racist connection after the ad was screenshotted and taken out of context and put into a seperate post so it's not as though those connotations were glaringly obvious anyway - It's something that had to be pulled apart in order to find something racist in it rather than the complaints coming naturally from the ad itself, as far as I can tell.

Reactions like this could actually make companies like Dove more wary about using people of different races in their campaigns in the future out of fear of unforseen backlash so the people who are complaining should think about that and the impact they themselves might be having on diversity by choosing to pick apart and criticise something just because there is a black person in it, when it clearly wasn't intended as racist.

...yeah I fairly much agree with winter an Jamie in that I don't find it racist...even watching the ad after it's obviously now been seen as racist, I still don't get it when I watch...I certainly don't think that it was an intentional thing from Dove, they have said not and detailed their concept to the models ...and there is no reason to feel they weren't being truthful/that feels way too 'conspiracy' ..I think it has just sadly been misinterpreted../unfortunately, sign of the times as Arista would say...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So you genuinely believe that at a multi-million pound company, with a huge marketing division full of highly paid professionals, who create adverts and keep their finger on the pulse of the public on a daily basis... not one person viewed the image of a black person removing their skin to reveal a white person - REGARDLESS OF INTENTION - and said "lol guys the internet is going to lose its **** over this".

I mean, come on.

If you had posted a sample of this on this forum, full of laypeople and ZERO advertising professionals, before it released and said "Will teh internets have a problem with this?", the answers would have ranged from "Yes, definitely" to "They shouldn't because it's PC gone mad but also yes because it's the internet".

Even the people who don't think it IS a problem still know that it WILL be a problem and that there will be a backlash.

But the at least 6 figure salary heads of avertising who have been in the ads game for decades at Dove, a Unilever company, one of the biggest parent companies in the world "got it wrong and didn't realise".

Jumping the shark majorly there let's face it.

Do i think it's unlikely that highly paid marketing people for a company as big as Dove that relies on its image and doesn't need to pull stunts to make sales would realise they've made a potentially racially offensive ad and respond with "lol guys the internet is going to lose its **** over this" - well yes, very unlikely. It doesn't make sense as like I said it wouldn't be worth it for them to risk their reputation over a racism controversy. Why would they seek that kind of attention when they don't need to?
And we don't know how many people were involved with the decision, it's a 3 second Facebook gif, not a large marketing campaign, and since a lot of people have seen nothing racist when viewing it, and the nature of how it even became a controversy - lifting screenshots out of context into a seperate post, it's believeable those marketing people wouldn't have either.
As y.winter said the concept of people fading into each other is hardly new, should they ensure only white people are cast in these types of ads, or that they must go in a specific order? It's all wildly over thinking such a simple ad and I disagree that most people would view it and see racism, and so given the lack of sense it would make for the marketing people at Dove to go ahead with it if it had been spotted, I think the most realistic explanation is that the potential for controversy was overlooked.

ETA: omg Ammi!

[jaxie]

TBH if I'd just seen that ad without the controversity I'd just have thought they were saying the products works with all kinds of skin types and is good for everyone. I don't associate skin colour with dirt and it wouldn't have occurred to me to think the black woman becoming a white woman implied she was dirty. Now it's been pointed out I can see how it's caused problems but I'm not sure I agree it's racist, it seems to be the perception of it that is the problem rather than the intent.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah I fairly much agree with winter an Jamie in that I don't find it racist...even watching the ad after it's obviously now been seen as racist, I still don't get it when I watch...I certainly don't think that it was an intentional thing from Dove, they have said not and detailed their concept to the models ...and there is no reason to feel they weren't being truthful/that feels way too 'conspiracy' ..I think it has just sadly been misinterpreted../unfortunately, sign of the times as Arista would say...

You should've seen my smile when I saw your name flashing on my phone

[Littlegreen]

Having seen the full ad I personally don't see the problem. However in the past many dodgy things got swept under the rug by the company, so this is karma.

[Niamh.]

I do like their soap and deodorant though

[Marsh.]

It's not racist at all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not racist at all.

Why is the soap white though?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why is the soap white though?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Do i think it's unlikely that highly paid marketing people for a company as big as Dove that relies on its image and doesn't need to pull stunts to make sales would realise they've made a potentially racially offensive ad and respond with "lol guys the internet is going to lose its **** over this" - well yes, very unlikely. It doesn't make sense as like I said it wouldn't be worth it for them to risk their reputation over a racism controversy. Why would they seek that kind of attention when they don't need to?
And we don't know how many people were involved with the decision, it's a 3 second Facebook gif, not a large marketing campaign, and since a lot of people have seen nothing racist when viewing it, and the nature of how it even became a controversy - lifting screenshots out of context into a seperate post, it's believeable those marketing people wouldn't have either.
As y.winter said the concept of people fading into each other is hardly new, should they ensure only white people are cast in these types of ads, or that they must go in a specific order? It's all wildly over thinking such a simple ad and I disagree that most people would view it and see racism, and so given the lack of sense it would make for the marketing people at Dove to go ahead with it if it had been spotted, I think the most realistic explanation is that the potential for controversy was overlooked.

ETA: omg Ammi!

Right but the question I'm asking isn't "is it actually racist", it's "should people paid to make Internet ads have realised that people on the Internet would cry racism".

The answer to the first question is subjective and debatable... The answer to the second question, I maintain, is either that they knew when they were making it that it would have backlash, or they are straight up incompetent. I would have thought that anyone making an Internet ad would know what people online are like? And if you know that, even the basics of that, then you know that "Brown skin off revealing white skin" in any context will be branded by some as problematic and racist. If someone does NOT know the basics like that, then why are they being hired by huge corporations to make ads for them?

So yeah I'm still sticking with what I said before. I doubt the add is intentionally racist, and it is a stretch to see the racism in it, and yes, people with an agenda have twisted it to BE racist... But I still don't buy that the people who chose to release it didn't see those issues coming? It straight up doesn't make sense that they wouldn't, if they have any experience, or common sense, at all.

[Marsh.]

She didn't take her brown skin off though. They all take their shirt off to reveal the next "model" all of them of varying skin tones.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So from what I understand the actual full ad is not racist.The black woman turns into a white woman who then turns into an Asian woman.Nothing wrong there.I think the problem is either a shorter edited version or screenshot collage that someone has done which just shows a black woman turning into a white woman on a soap ad which yes in itself could definitely be seen as racist.If Dove didn’t make this screenshot then they have nothing to apologise for.Anyone can edit stuff these days.
However if it was Dove who put a shorter version out for social media without the Asian lady in then it was very careless as it lacks context and would appear racist for sure.It may just be terrible editing.

This ^

The edited screenshot could be seen as racist
The full version isn't racist at all.

The problem is, the advert is to do with soap. If it had been an ice cream or clothing advert nobody would have battered an eyelid.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah I fairly much agree with winter an Jamie in that I don't find it racist...even watching the ad after it's obviously now been seen as racist, I still don't get it when I watch...I certainly don't think that it was an intentional thing from Dove, they have said not and detailed their concept to the models ...and there is no reason to feel they weren't being truthful/that feels way too 'conspiracy' ..I think it has just sadly been misinterpreted../unfortunately, sign of the times as Arista would say...

I have to agree here, it appears everything has to be an issue, or we have to find hidden agendas in everything.
If it isn't racist, ageist, homophobic or any other ist or phobic then surely it must be a mistake, after all, it couldn't just be what it simply is.


Oh, and hello lovely lady, hope you are feeling tons better,xx.

[Withano]

Jumping in a bit late but the whole story is

Dove make a three second ad where a black girl takes off a jumper and turns white, the white girl does the same and turns Asian
A beauty vlogger screenshotted the black woman turning white and claiming their outrage
Her fans became outraged despite not seeing the whole ad
And now the whole thing is a mess despite being fine in theory, the inappropriate screenshots went more viral than the ad.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Jumping in a bit late but the whole story is

Dove make a three second ad where a black girl takes off a jumper and turns white, the white girl does the same and turns Asian
A beauty vlogger screenshotted the black woman turning white and claiming their outrage
Her fans became outraged despite not seeing the whole ad
And now the whole thing is a mess despite being fine in theory, the inappropriate screenshots went more viral than the ad.

ohh so it was someone who doesn't even work for Dove edited it and then complained?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

She didn't take her brown skin off though. They all take their shirt off to reveal the next "model" all of them of varying skin tones.

Not you too Marsh!

I'm not saying that it IS racist or that *I* think it should be seen as racist at all.

I'm saying that anyone who claims that they didn't realise that some people would cry racism is straight up lying. I don't know why. Maybe people are worried that admitting "yeah, OK, I knew that weirdos on the internet would scream racism at this scene" is somehow admitting that they have a point?

But I just don't buy it. I refuse . There's some bizarre wilful ignorance going on here (NOT ignorance of race issues - but ignorance of the fact that we all know full well what the internet is like) and it's creeping me out.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

ohh so it was someone who doesn't even work for Dove edited it and then complained?

Yes! She knew exactly what she was doing too. Probably worked a lot better than she was expecting

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not you too Marsh!

I'm not saying that it IS racist or that *I* think it should be seen as racist at all.

I'm saying that anyone who claims that they didn't realise that some people would cry racism is straight up lying. I don't know why. Maybe people are worried that admitting "yeah, OK, I knew that weirdos on the internet would scream racism at this scene" is somehow admitting that they have a point?

But I just don't buy it. I refuse . There's some bizarre wilful ignorance going on here (NOT ignorance of race issues - but ignorance of the fact that we all know full well what the internet is like) and it's creeping me out.

I never said you did. I was just correcting that little point of contention about peeling brown skin off.

Maybe they did predict or suspect that maybe the internet crazies would kick off.
I mean, people attacked Adele online for daring to tell Beyonce she had "black friends" who loved Lemonade, which was supposed to be an empowerment album for black women so was entirely relevant in the context she said it. But I don't think those people should be pandered to.

Let them shout into the empty void that is the internet IMO.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Yes! She knew exactly what she was doing too. Probably worked a lot better than she was expecting

Oh well that changes me agreeing with TS then about Dove doing it on purpose

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

Yes! She knew exactly what she was doing too. Probably worked a lot better than she was expecting

OK so we're getting there.

HOW did she know exactly what she was doing?

Because she knew that the imagery of a black woman changing to a white woman would set people off.

She saw the 3 second video, she thought "hey this would be easy to twist".

She knew that it would set off the internet.

Because it was really obvious it would and she knew it as soon as she saw the video.



Now, forgive me here, but this was a ****ing beauty vlogger, not an evil genius. A beauty vlogger saw the obvious twist exploit in this video. But the ad execs quality control didn't consider it for a second. Hmmmm. Dove are pretending to be shocked. Hmmmm. Everyone else is claiming that they have no idea how this has happened. HHHhhhmmmm.

Well darn, I guess everyone has been outsmarted. By a beauty vlogger. ... .... .......

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

OK so we're getting there.

HOW did she know exactly what she was doing?

Because she knew that the imagery of a black woman changing to a white woman would set people off.

She saw the 3 second video, she thought "hey this would be easy to twist".

She knew that it would set off thew internet.

Because it was really obvious it would and she knew it as soon as she saw the video.



Now, forgive me here, but this was a ****ing beauty vlogger, not an evil genius. A beauty vlogger saw the obvious twist exploit in this video. But the ad execs quality control didn't consider it for a second. Hmmmm. Dove are pretending to be shocked. Hmmmm. Everyone else is claiming that they have no idea how this has happened. HHHhhhmmmm.

Well darn, I guess everyone has been outsmarted. By a beauty vlogger. ... .... .......

But that's making it the ad makers fault. Which it shouldn't be.

Because I daresay you could screenshot any advert/campaign/TV show/scene/artwork/cover and take it out of the context of its original presentation to make it look like something it isn't.

Again, I don't think people like that should be pandered to.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I use Pears soap

It's my go to Soap of colour