[Brother Leon]

The game looks awesome so they can all do one tbh.

[Vicky.]

Video games are not my thing at all..but all of this kickoff about this game is making me want to try it, just to see what the fuss is about tbh Which I am sure was not the point of the kickoffs, but it is the result, for me anyway

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

The game looks awesome so they can all do one tbh.

See.... totally desensitised already

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Video games are not my thing at all..but all of this kickoff about this game is making me want to try it, just to see what the fuss is about tbh Which I am sure was not the point of the kickoffs, but it is the result, for me anyway

Boys toys - aggression is not just about hormones but also about choice of toys.

For me the difference would be about how engrossed boys get into games and how they replay them many times, whereas they tend to watch a film once and once watched it is put to bed.

As a mother of 3 boys I have seen and heard how bl**dy engrossed they get in games. I have run upstairs before now hearing my son shouting thinking something awful has happened only to discover it was all about a game., he was so flipping engrossed in a game he was shouting at it. He has never done that with a film.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Boys toys - aggression is not just about hormones but also about choice of toys.

For me the difference would be about how engrossed boys get into games and how they replay them many times, whereas they tend to watch a film once and once watched it is put to bed.

As a mother of 3 boys I have seen and heard how bl**dy engrossed they get in games. I have run upstairs before now hearing my son shouting thinking something awful has happened only to discover it was all about a game., he was so flipping engrossed in a game he was shouting at it. He has never done that with a film.

Yeah some kids do get very into the games. We have this quite often with Gavins kids. Obviously mine are a bit young for stuff like this (though my daughter does like a bit of sonic And gets very frustrated)

A few times we have heard a barrage of expletives come from his daughter (13) or his son (15) and have gone flying upstairs thinking they have hurt themselves or something, only to be confronted with a red faced sweary teenager who has just been killed in a game or something

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah some kids do get very into the games. We have this quite often with Gavins kids. Obviously mine are a bit young for stuff like this (though my daughter does like a bit of sonic And gets very frustrated)

A few times we have heard a barrage of expletives come from his daughter (13) or his son (15) and have gone flying upstairs thinking they have hurt themselves or something, only to be confronted with a red faced sweary teenager who has just been killed in a game or something

That sounds familiar!

[Withano]

Not to be on both sides on the fence in one thread, but if this woman had an issue with GTA, I'd mostly agree.

You are playing as the villain in GTA whilst trying to escape cops, and that doesn't seem appropriate imo. This game that this woman kicked up a fuss about honestly seems like the most opposite to that imaginable though. Your aim is to protect and be the hero.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

There is no form of domestic abuse in any of the Farcry games, nor is there ever violence against children in the GTA games, and also, ANYTHING is the GTA games is quite clearly intended as parody.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there are depictions of abuse in either of those titles.

Amimal and physical abuse are available 1 minute into each game

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Boys toys - aggression is not just about hormones but also about choice of toys.

For me the difference would be about how engrossed boys get into games and how they replay them many times, whereas they tend to watch a film once and once watched it is put to bed.

As a mother of 3 boys I have seen and heard how bl**dy engrossed they get in games. I have run upstairs before now hearing my son shouting thinking something awful has happened only to discover it was all about a game., he was so flipping engrossed in a game he was shouting at it. He has never done that with a film.

That's just because of the element of interaction, though, if the protagonist in a game dies its (usually) because you ****ed up and made a mistake that caused the failure, whereas in a film you're a passive observer and whatever happens is pre-scripted. That said if it escalates to real aggression / throwing controllers etc. then there's an anger problem that goes way beyond games. Most people don't start throwing things around and screeching when they lose in a game and, if they do, they're the same kids who are throwing red-faced kicks and punches when they lose at football or any other physical sport (Andy Murray smashing tennis racquets springs to mind - not all tennis players do it!).

For the rest of it... It's pretty out of touch / sexist to assume that gaming is "for boys". Back in the 90's maybe this was true, but these days the majority of kids and teens (male and female) do at least a bit of gaming, and plenty are just as "into it" as boys. For regular gaming I would say there's still a split but it's at most 70/30, and that's mainly only because of the stigma that it's "tomboyish" and that girls should be more interested in make-up, boyfriends and gossip. As a feminist, I would have thought you would want to steer clear of those sort of stereotypes.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

Amimal and physical abuse are available 1 minute into each game

Animal and physical abuse are available every time you step out of your front door... It doesn't mean you have to do it.

Though to be fair, I will agree that the more recent FarCry games have been a bit heavy on the animal hunting.

However, this thread is specifically about depictions of child abuse / harm to children... And neither series features that at any time.

[Marsh.]

'Abusers will get off on this stuff'

That's like saying "Pedos will get off on children on TV, so let's not put any kids on TV at all".

Fear mongering sh*t from out of touch elite.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Animal and physical abuse are available every time you step out of your front door... It doesn't mean you have to do it.

Though to be fair, I will agree that the more recent FarCry games have been a bit heavy on the animal hunting.

However, this thread is specifically about depictions of child abuse / harm to children... And neither series features that at any time.

Good, because there is no place in vg for that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

None yet, this seems to be the ground breaker... as I said it is the trailer the USP for the game isn't it?

And as I said earlier there are many topics I don't have a lot of knowledge about insofar as direct experience of, and I'm sure you don't have experience in the issues I have experience in, that doesn't mean I would ever deny your right to have an opinion .... that would be repressive.

If you think the USP of Detroit: Become Human is Domestic Abuse then you have clearly either not watched the trailer in question or you haven't understood it and have opted for moral outrage instead.

The USP of the trailer and the game in general is that the story can unfold in a number of ways depending on your actions and choices. If you have watched the trailer you certainly will see that it neither normalises or glamourises Domestic Abuse.

Who is denying your opinion? You made a statement saying that ''Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse' but that is simply not true at all. Your entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to point out the ignorant parts of it.

[Livia]

I reckon most people can tell fact from fiction from an early age. And those who can't will be tipped over the edge by something eventually... video game... novel... film... even the Bible. There's some twisted sh1t in that, don't see people calling for it to be banned.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

I reckon most people can tell fact from fiction from an early age. And those who can't will be tipped over the edge by something eventually... video game... novel... film... even the Bible. There's some twisted sh1t in that, don't see people calling for it to be banned.

This. Honestly there's worse stuff on the news and that's reality, if anything will desensitise people to violence it's what's happening around them, not fictional characters on a screen. Whether the characters are acted, or controlled by a player, we're all able to tell reality from fiction.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I reckon most people can tell fact from fiction from an early age. And those who can't will be tipped over the edge by something eventually... video game... novel... film... even the Bible. There's some twisted sh1t in that, don't see people calling for it to be banned.

I agree with this.

Blaming triggers is always foolish. Anything, everything and nothing can act as a trigger for someone with the capacity for violence.

[bots]

well, lets look at the violence in cartoons rammed down kids throats before they can even talk

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

well, lets look at the violence in cartoons rammed down kids throats before they can even talk

Violence in cartoons was banned.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you think the USP of Detroit: Become Human is Domestic Abuse then you have clearly either not watched the trailer in question or you haven't understood it and have opted for moral outrage instead.

The USP of the trailer and the game in general is that the story can unfold in a number of ways depending on your actions and choices. If you have watched the trailer you certainly will see that it neither normalises or glamourises Domestic Abuse.

Who is denying your opinion? You made a statement saying that ''Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse' but that is simply not true at all. Your entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to point out the ignorant parts of it.

I have watched the trailer so why are you accusing me of ignorance?
I classed it as the USP as it is the focus of said trailer, the part of the game everyone gets to make a judgement on pre release.

I was not the first to use the term 'modern' to describe such interactive games in the thread, If you read back I didn't suggest it normalised abuse but suggested that that was a potential effect of the game.

Without any evidence it is impossible to say whether it is true or not therefore you dismissing my views as I 'misunderstood' or moral outrage is rather reactionary, denigrating my opinion is ignorant in itself, why is there no room for discussion on the possibility of desensitisation... it's not a wholly unheard of concept in gaming is it?

[Beso]

The question that should be asked is why would you pay 50 quid or whatever to watch women and kids being battered?

[T*]

there are literally books worse than this
It isn’t 1997 and GTA didn’t just come out, why is people craving video game censorship still a thing? Especially nowadays where you literally will not be able to stop people from playing it, anyone with a damn brain can get around it but anyway
The only people that have a problem with this or video games in general are naive. It seems people always will always want a scapegoat to blame

[user104658]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

The question that should be asked is why would you pay 50 quid or whatever to watch women and kids being battered?

It's a maybe 15 minute section of a probably 25+ hour long story. Though I think you probably know that and are just trying to make some sort of ham-fisted point.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I have watched the trailer so why are you accusing me of ignorance?
I classed it as the USP as it is the focus of said trailer, the part of the game everyone gets to make a judgement on pre release.

I was not the first to use the term 'modern' to describe such interactive games in the thread, If you read back I didn't suggest it normalised abuse but suggested that that was a potential effect of the game.

Without any evidence it is impossible to say whether it is true or not therefore you dismissing my views as I 'misunderstood' or moral outrage is rather reactionary, denigrating my opinion is ignorant in itself, why is there no room for discussion on the possibility of desensitisation... it's not a wholly unheard of concept in gaming is it?

You made an ignorant blanket statement on video games when you admittedly don't know much about video games so I called it out.

Again, the USP of the trailer is not the child abuse, they are not saying 'play this game, you get to witness child abuse!' They are saying that actions have consequences and your choices affect how the story plays out which is why they show the worst possible outcome first and how your actions can change what happens.

It won't have any more of an effect on 'normalising' abuse as any film or TV show has that's covered the subject. You do not play as the aggressor, the trailer shows that the father's actions are not okay and the whole point of that section is to try to help the child out of a toxic and abusive situation.

There's no evidence to say that the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist but that doesn't mean it's a solid argument for saying that it's real. There's no real evidence, despite how hard the media want there to be, of a link between playing violent video games and the development of violent tendencies in players. There's not many people who don't already have the potential to abuse others who would play this game and think 'yeah! domestic abuse looks good to me! Let's try it!'

You may think your opinions are above criticism, Kizzy, but they are not. You made an ignorant statement and you got called out on it. You are entitled to your ignorance and I'm entitled to comment on it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You made an ignorant blanket statement on video games when you admittedly don't know much about video games so I called it out.

Again, the USP of the trailer is not the child abuse, they are not saying 'play this game, you get to witness child abuse!' They are saying that consequences have actions and your choices affect how the story plays out which is why they show the worst possible outcome first and how your actions can change what happens.

It won't have any more of an effect on 'normalising' abuse as any film or TV show has that's covered the subject. You do not play as the aggressor, the trailer shows that the father's actions are not okay and the whole point of that section is to try to help the child out of a toxic and abusive situation.

There's no evidence to say that the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist but that doesn't mean it's a solid argument for saying that it's real. There's no real evidence, despite how hard the media want there to be, of a link between playing violent video games and the development of violent tendencies in players. There's not many people who don't already have the potential to abuse others who would play this game and think 'yeah! domestic abuse looks good to me! Let's try it!'

You may think your opinions are above criticism, Kizzy, but they are not. You made an ignorant statement and you got called out on it. You are entitled to your ignorance and I'm entitled to comment on it.

Of course I don't think my opinions are above criticism but like TS you are taking the fact I don't have direct experience as a gamer to denigrate my opinion, as I said to him there are a myriad of things discussed on this forum that you personally don't have direct experience of I would never suggest you are unqualified to comment on them though.

I'm not suggesting that those playing would become abusers, that's where you have totally misinterpreted my point, my issue is that it would desensitise and normalise abuse so it no longer is has the power to shock, I'm not the only one to have these views I'm not the only person to voice them.
I'm not sure how I can be accused of ignorance and naivety when there is a body dedicated to the study and measure of such outcomes.


Repeated Play of Violent Video Games Creates Emotional Desensitization

In April 2016, "Repeated Play Reduces Video Games’ Ability to Elicit Guilt: Evidence from a Longitudinal Experiment," was published in the journal Media Psychology. This study was conducted by Andrew Grizzard of University of Buffalo along with co-authors Ron Tamborini and John L. Sherry of Michigan State University, and René Weber of the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...esensitization

The findings provide the first experimental evidence that repeatedly playing the same violent game reduces emotional responses -- like guilt -- not only to the original game, but to other violent video games as well.

Yet why this is happening remains a mystery, according to Matthew Grizzard, assistant professor of communication and principal investigator of the study published in current issue of the journal Media Psychology, with co-authors Ron Tamborini and John L. Sherry of Michigan State University and René Weber of the University of California Santa Barbara.

"What's underlying this finding?" asks Grizzard. "Why do games lose their ability to elicit guilt, and why does this seemingly generalize to other, similar games?"

Grizzard, an expert in the psychological effects of media entertainment, has previously studied the ability of violent video games to elicit guilt. The current study builds upon that work.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0408163742.htm

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Of course I don't think my opinions are above criticism but like TS you are taking the fact I don't have direct experience as a gamer to denigrate my opinion, as I said to him there are a myriad of things discussed on this forum that you personally don't have direct experience of I would never suggest you are unqualified to comment on them though.

I'm not suggesting that those playing would become abusers, that's where you have totally misinterpreted my point, my issue is that it would desensitise and normalise abuse so it no longer is has the power to shock, I'm not the only one to have these views I'm not the only person to voice them.
I'm not sure how I can be accused of ignorance and naivety when there is a body dedicated to the study and measure of such outcomes.


Repeated Play of Violent Video Games Creates Emotional Desensitization

In April 2016, "Repeated Play Reduces Video Games’ Ability to Elicit Guilt: Evidence from a Longitudinal Experiment," was published in the journal Media Psychology. This study was conducted by Andrew Grizzard of University of Buffalo along with co-authors Ron Tamborini and John L. Sherry of Michigan State University, and René Weber of the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...esensitization

The findings provide the first experimental evidence that repeatedly playing the same violent game reduces emotional responses -- like guilt -- not only to the original game, but to other violent video games as well.

Yet why this is happening remains a mystery, according to Matthew Grizzard, assistant professor of communication and principal investigator of the study published in current issue of the journal Media Psychology, with co-authors Ron Tamborini and John L. Sherry of Michigan State University and René Weber of the University of California Santa Barbara.

"What's underlying this finding?" asks Grizzard. "Why do games lose their ability to elicit guilt, and why does this seemingly generalize to other, similar games?"

Grizzard, an expert in the psychological effects of media entertainment, has previously studied the ability of violent video games to elicit guilt. The current study builds upon that work.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0408163742.htm

There's plenty of things I don't know, when they come up I try to research them and share my opinion, I don't make blanket statements like this one.

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

You can try to spin it any way you want, it's not going to change my opinion that you made a statement based on nothing factual.

If you watch a sad film multiple times, will you still be emotionally affected by it as much as you were the first time you watched it? Does watching someone's loved one die in a film make it less affecting when someone you know dies? No, it doesn't. I don't blink at violence in video games because it's not real but you can be sure that I would be affected by witnessing such violence in real life.

Games aren't reflective of real life, someone's reactions to a game is not the same as it would be if they witnessed similar events it in reality.