[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that might be it alright, Courtney does look amazing as a woman imo, actually he looks better as Courtney than as Shane

Courtney certainly looks more 'womanly' than I do I wonder how many men were questioning their sexuality when seeing her

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Didn't she discuss this in her VT (or early in the show), before she knew anything about Courtney? I'm sure I remember it coming up. She seems to have a lot of confidence in her body anyway though to me and to like it and showing it off. I honestly just think her issue is that she doesn't like being compared to or referred to as a drag queen herself (which happens to trans people a lot!) and that's turned into an aversion to them.

I didn't watch the launch night so maybe India did. (it was kind of on in the background and when the stereotype rubbish started from India I left the room. Cannot stand that ****)

Being compared to drag queen wouldn't give you a 'phobia' though.

Maybe its India knows many drag queens pass better than India does, in that case. Or India has internalized homophobia, given they are a male attracted to male people and only just came out with this after 50 years. That would make one 'phobic' of drag queens, even though drag queens are not always gay.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didn't watch the launch night so maybe India did.

Being compared to drag queen wouldn't give you a 'phobia' though.

I agree it shouldn't... but then a phobia is by definition irrational. I don't think it's justified but I can see how it could manifest in someone like India. She seems very self centered, over-reactive to how things make her feel and less considerate of how she might make other people feel. So if seeing drag queens reminds her of negative feelings associated with comparisons, that's a negative response to seeing something which is sort of how phobias develop.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I agree it shouldn't... but then a phobia is by definition irrational. I don't think it's justified but I can see how it could manifest in someone like India. She seems very self centered, over-reactive to how things make her feel and less considerate of how she might make other people feel. So if seeing drag queens reminds her of negative feelings associated with comparisons, that's a negative response to seeing something which is sort of how phobias develop.

..I think she also compared her phobia to that of a clown phobia which is quite common...maybe she feels it’s hard to ‘see the person’ behind drag queen make up which tends to be very heavy make up...so like wearing a mask, type thing...?....that would also make sense to me to create a phobia, I have a huge phobia of masks....

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think she also compared her phobia to that of a clown phobia which is quite common...maybe she feels it’s hard to ‘see the person’ behind drag queen make up which tends to be very heavy make up...so like wearing a mask, type thing...?....that would also make sense to me to create a phobia, I have a huge phobia of masks....

That's true. I think a lot of people took that as being a derogatory comparison, drag queens are the same as clowns, but both do use costumes as part of their entertainment and I think that's what she was getting at with the comparison (I'd also say that there's nothing wrong with being a clown so it's not necessarily an insult if it's not meant in that way but anyway). It's also telling that Courtney doesn't seem to have taken an issue with any of this when I think it's fair to say that he'd probably have had a conversation with her about it if he did, considering he talked to Ann about his issues with her views on gay rights.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's true. I think a lot of people took that as being a derogatory comparison, drag queens are the same as clowns, but both do use costumes as part of their entertainment and I think that's what she was getting at with the comparison (I'd also say that there's nothing wrong with being a clown so it's not necessarily an insult if it's not meant in that way but anyway). It's also telling that Courtney doesn't seem to have taken an issue with any of this when I think it's fair to say that he'd probably have had a conversation with her about it if he did, considering he talked to Ann about his issues with her views on gay rights.

From what we have seen though, Courtney does not seem to take issue with anything. Shane sat and listened to the whole 'gay rights' thing from Ann and did not take issue, he simply said that it important that all opinions are heard. So refreshing. Courtney/Shane seem very live and let live. Shame India is not more like that tbh

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

From what we have seen though, Courtney does not seem to take issue with anything. Shane sat and listened to the whole 'gay rights' thing from Ann and did not take issue, he simply said that it important that all opinions are heard. So refreshing. Courtney/Shane seem very live and let live. Shame India is not more like that tbh

I don't know I'm just making an assumption, but I presumed that the reason he brought it up with Ann in the first place was because he disagreed with her views and wanted to discuss and counter them, as great as he was during their chat that's basically what he was doing, so I just would have thought he'd do the same with India and her views if he felt it was necessary.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't know I'm just making an assumption, but I presumed that the reason he brought it up with Ann in the first place was because he disagreed with her views and wanted to discuss and counter them, as great as he was during their chat that's basically what he was doing, so I just would have thought he'd do the same with India and her views if he felt it was necessary.

He HAS brought up the 'drag-phobia' thing though. And has spoke about it a few times when India started the conversations Thought you meant as he has not outright said he has a problem with it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's true. I think a lot of people took that as being a derogatory comparison, drag queens are the same as clowns, but both do use costumes as part of their entertainment and I think that's what she was getting at with the comparison (I'd also say that there's nothing wrong with being a clown so it's not necessarily an insult if it's not meant in that way but anyway). It's also telling that Courtney doesn't seem to have taken an issue with any of this when I think it's fair to say that he'd probably have had a conversation with her about it if he did, considering he talked to Ann about his issues with her views on gay rights.

...also, drag queens don’t really represent women in how they dress, it’s very exaggerated and OTT glam..so it doesn’t represent India really, does it...(...I’ve done my usual reading a few sites.....and apparently trans women are more likely to be the ones who feel invalidated by drag queens if they think it mocks them and can also feel that it represents ‘being female’ as just a phase’...I’m not sure if India has any feelings herself of where her phobia has arisen from but a phobia of drag queens is something that others seem to experience as well in their lives....

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...also, drag queens don’t really represent women in how they dress, it’s very exaggerated and OTT glam..so it doesn’t represent India really, does it...(...I’ve done my usual reading a few sites.....and apparently trans women are more likely to be the ones who feel invalidated by drag queens if they think it mocks them and can also feel that it represents ‘being female’ as just a phase’...I’m not sure if India has any feelings herself of where her phobia has arisen from but a phobia of drag queens is something that others seem to experience as well in their lives....

Yes a lot of people do, I don't really know what causes it either and I'm just guessing with India but just the amount of comparisons made on here between her and Courtney shows how prevalent it is, but drag queens dressing as women for entertainment is far more comparable to a clown than it is to a transsexual woman who even if other people don't consider her to be woman, considers herself to be one. I don't agree with her feelings towards drag queens but I can see how an aversion would be caused. Out of everyone in society I think transsexual women are the MOST likely people to have a drag phobia.

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Courtney certainly looks more 'womanly' than I do I wonder how many men were questioning their sexuality when seeing her


I didn't watch the launch night so maybe India did. (it was kind of on in the background and when the stereotype rubbish started from India I left the room. Cannot stand that ****)

Being compared to drag queen wouldn't give you a 'phobia' though.

Maybe its India knows many drag queens pass better than India does, in that case. Or India has internalized homophobia, given they are a male attracted to male people and only just came out with this after 50 years. That would make one 'phobic' of drag queens, even though drag queens are not always gay.

Best drag queen I have ever seen. Seriously, I think it's wrong to label her/him as a drag queen.

The face looks like a normal woman. Drag queens are usually like panto dames.

[luvjustin]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

Best drag queen I have ever seen. Seriously, I think it's wrong to label her/him as a drag queen.

The face looks like a normal woman. Drag queens are usually like panto dames.

It depends really. Her look is pretty typical of what a lot of white American drag queens try to achieve. In the UK and Australia it’s always been a beer more exaggerated and over the top.