[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Why? She IS a male person. Yes she has had surgeries and such to resemble a woman but she is still male. And you cannot undo 50 years of male social conditioning.

I reckon if she just st fu for a bit about her transition and being male, people would actually maybe see her as a woman. But whilst shes constantly going on about it and...dare I say acting like a male person...a lot of people will see her as a male person. Compared to the likes of Nadia and Luke A...who barely spoke about it and for them it seemed being trans was a small part of who they are, whilst being trans seems to be ALL India is.

Oh definitely, she's deeply insecure and taking offense to everything, but I don't see why that still makes her male. The social conditioning is a good point, and an example of why she'd never be able to relate to women fully, but at the same time you could argue that gay people, in the closet for however many number of years, are/were subject to a lifetime of heterosexual conditioning by family members, the media, friends etc. and yet are still gay.

Male social conditioning could mean many things really and as Andrew pointed out in his argument with India, he wouldn't be comfortable with how he dresses/speaks in, say, a more macho environment. Yet he's still benefited from this male conditioning, whereas she's presumably been suppressed by it (I say 'presumably' because I don't know how long ago it was that she transitioned / even wanted to transition).

Originally Posted by Livia

India keeps talking about when she was a man and (and I say this with no insult intended) she looks like a man and dresses like a teenage girl.

I think that by putting India in the house they've set back the Trans community a couple of years. I've seen trans women on TV before, and I've met a few in real life, worked with one even, and I have never in my life seen someone so self-centred and ready to be a victim as India. Shame... it might have been a good experience, like it was when Luke A won. He was a good ambassador the the trans community, I think.

I don't really buy the "ambassador for the _____ community" stuff, really, and not sure why she should be an example of how to treat and view everyone else inside it. If it's set them back then that's because people are viewing them all as the same The only community she's really set back imo is the "narcissistic crybaby" community, and thankfully that's just This Morning guests.