[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

ummm he stood up to them??? no he didn't, he just walked away. how is that standing up??? lol

"standing up to them" would mean he actually had some kind of power and leadership or atleast the slightest bit of INFLUENCE over the whole thing... clearly that is not the case...

You do realise that both Sarkozy and Merkel have been meeting with Cameron over the last few weeks, intent to try and persuade him of the treaty's merits? Clearly they hoped, and expected, him to vote in favour of it, him vetoing is a big kick in the teeth to them

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

You do realise that both Sarkozy and Merkel have been meeting with Cameron over the last few weeks, intent to try and persuade him of the treaty's merits? Clearly they hoped, and expected, him to vote in favour of it, him vetoing is a big kick in the teeth to them

I fear you are wasting your well-informed breath, MTVN.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I fear you are wasting your well-informed breath, MTVN.

I may well be

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'm not sure if it is the right move from a pragmatic point of view, but I do hold a smidgen of respect for him for standing up to Sarkozy and Merkel and living up to his word

Ah well, we might have lost the support of the Eurozone but at least we can rely on Hungary!

Edit - Oh I've just realised that they haven't vetoed it as was earlier thought, but they're referring it to their Parliaments along with Sweden and the Czech Republic, it really is just us atm then

And the the Guardian views it like this




Markets work in the UK on a International Basis
which includeds Europe.


Even LibDem Clegg said the PM
went with a fair deal but the Euro New Gang do not want the UK.

Well French Frogg and German Sausage - Up Yours, I tell you.

[lostalex]

The EU is basically on par with the AU(african union) at this point. It's just a bunch of politicians trying to save face with their electorates by acting tough within this toothless organization.

[Scarlett.]

Sarkozy did not refuse shaking Cameron's hand

Youtube video

[arista]

"Sarkozy did not refuse shaking Cameron's hand"

On that Video he Did Not Shake Hands

[Scarlett.]

Because he was already shaking hands with another guy, and Cameron didn't even go for a handshake

[arista]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Because he was already shaking hands with another guy, and Cameron didn't even go for a handshake

But in other places the French Onion Seller
could have shaken his hand.


But the Stinking French and German
were ready to set us afloat.

Which is great as we have been Polluted by Euro Corruption
from the former New Labour power.

Of Course in Secret
the PM and the French Leader get on well.
But the French Leader has a Election and it looks great when he snubs the UK PM.
And the Euro Nations in trouble are in need of Massive Loans
which Germany seems to think it can wait 5 years for that.


And on Friday 3 French Banks were Downgraded
those in the markets are well aware of this.

[Scarlett.]

Youtube video

[arista]

Nigel is Not in Power of the UK
so not a problem.


Today in America the IMF Woman
said no Nation in immune
from the Euro Crisis - We know that honey.


But France is now due to lose its AAA rating soon
So Sarko (who could lose his election) - Do not be Rude about Our PM

[Shasown]

..The Czech Republic and Hungary have said they will not sign the new European Union pact unless tax harmonisation plans are dropped.

The announcement comes less than one week after the EU summit hailed as bringing unity to all but one of its member nations.

In Brussels, 26 of the 27 members of the EU backed new fiscal rules to keep budgets in line, with only the UK abstaining.

Neither Hungary or the Czech Republic uses the euro, and tax harmonisation plans were not explicitly discussed as part of the changes at the summit.

Nonetheless Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban and his Czech counterpart Petr Necas said they wanted to take active roles in negotiations, adding they are concerned the pact may take away their independence on tax policy.

Mr Necas said: "We support the solutions which result in the stabilisation of the eurozone.


"But we are convinced that tax harmonisation would not mean anything good for
us."

Stock markets dipped following the news, but the major European indices remained in positive territory.

Sky's economics editor Ed Conway said the announcements from Budapest and Prague underlined the fact that Britain was not the only nation uncomfortable with the treaty - and that it is not a done deal yet.

"It's not just those two countries that have issues with it," he said.

"Whether you look across at Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland - a number of countries' representatives have gone back to their parliaments and have examined what's in front of them and have said they're not 100% pleased with what they've signed up to in some cases."

Negotiations are due to continue until March, with the next EU summit expected at the end of January or early February.


Meanwhile, the eurozone is likely to slip back into recession next year, according to a report by Ernst & Young.

The audit firm said it expects the economies of the 17 member countries to shrink in the first two quarters of 2012.

The report predicts growth of just 0.1% for the whole of the year and warns unemployment in the eurozone is unlikely to fall below 10% before 2015.

The warning was backed up by economic data from Markit suggesting output continued to contract across the 17-nation bloc over the past month.

Although the headline Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) figure rose slightly, at 47.9 it remained below 50 which separates economic growth from a slowdown.

The survey compiler said the slight improvement was down to strength in France and Germany, with peripheral eurozone economies still struggling.


"The reforms agreed at the summit on December 9 were a step in the right direction and the response seems to have been mildly positive," Ernst & Young said.

It added: "Investors remain very concerned about the commitment and ability of eurozone governments to implement reforms quickly."

However, the leading economist and chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management has expressed his confidence in the single currency.

Jim O'Neill told Sky's Jeff Randall Live that European leaders would not give up easily, despite the continuing crisis in the eurozone.

Meanwhile, the head of Britain's armed forces, General Sir David Richards, has said the eurozone crisis is of "huge importance" to defence chiefs as well as the City.


In a lecture to the Royal United Services Institute in London, he said: "I am clear that the single biggest strategic risk facing the UK today is economic rather than military.

"Over time, a thriving economy must be the central ingredient in any UK grand strategy.

"This is why the eurozone crisis is of such huge importance, not just to the City of London, but rightly to the whole country, and to military planners like me."

He added: "The country's main effort must be the economy. No country can defend itself if bankrupt."

Ernst & Young agreed that problems in the eurozone have impacted the UK but said the worst may be over for Britain.

Marie Diron told Sky News: "The eurozone is the main trading partner for the UK so it is in the interest of the UK that the eurozone is stable and growing and what we see is that the UK will probably see weak growth next year, although the bulk of the pain has probably already gone through."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/eurozone-he...055759863.html

The falling out has begun already

[arista]

"The falling out has begun already "


Yes and more to follow.
The Problem is still Greece who needs to be removed
from the Euro Club.

And the Longer they do not do that
the worse it can become.


It would send some banks down
but I say sooner is better than later.

[arista]

[arista]

Euro on the brink: Greece WILL be forced to hold a second election as Hollande meets Merkel to discuss fate of single currency

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1uxPwzAC7





They are still trying to get Greece
out of the €uro without a panic.



New French President is meeting Merkel
making sure his France is protected .

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/home/interactive...urozone-crisis

interactive graphics

[arista]

Greece is to have a 2nd Election in around 4 weeks
if a Left wing power wins it
they can blackmail Germany
by saying they will leave the €uro
unless Germany agree's to their new deal.


Of course Germany should Eject them
time will tell.


Sources: Bloomberg and SkyNewsHD

[MTVN]

I think Syriza will get into power and they'll be a bit of a stand off between them and Germany for a while; Greece will think the Eurozone can't afford for them to leave but I can't see any more bailout money being given if they reject austerity measures. Greece will probably leave the Euro by the end of the year in any case

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think Syriza will get into power and they'll be a bit of a stand off between them and Germany for a while; Greece will think the Eurozone can't afford for them to leave but I can't see any more bailout money being given if they reject austerity measures. Greece will probably leave the Euro by the end of the year in any case

Yes they better Word it Right
As I would say No Greece
You Are Now Ejected from the €uro
Forever.

Set a Date 6 weeks ahead
allowing banks to adjust the losses.
better to be Done than let the Sinking Ship of Greece
take everyone down with them .



Also just on Ch4News Report from Greece
the locals are taking out Billions of €uro's
as the fear they not last the next 4 weeks.

[arista]

Labours Ed Balls
kept saying yesterday that our PM
should rush out to Germany.

Feck Off Balls
Our PM is on the Phone 24/7
you are the feckers that nearly got us in
the Deadly €uro.
The one thing UnElected Brown
got right - not to join the €uro.

[joeysteele]

The problem for ourselves is that if Greece really fell and was out of the Euro, that 'may' then set the precedent for other Nations such as Spain who get into deep trouble to also have to possibly leave.

That uncertainty and re-organisation will inevitably have a major knock on effect tp the rest of Europe and despite the UK not being in the Euro could badly affect us too.

Great uncertainty ahead and I now believe none of the Politicians have any idea what is likely to happen or what the real consequences wiil be for the UK.
Somehow,I hope Greece is kept on board in Europe but I also cannot see patience with Greece holding much longer.

What does happen though will for sure affect the economies of all the European Nations,as much the UK too as well as hitting other Nations too.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The problem for ourselves is that if Greece really fell and was out of the Euro, that 'may' then set the precedent for other Nations such as Spain who get into deep trouble to also have to possibly leave.

That uncertainty and re-organisation will inevitably have a major knock on effect tp the rest of Europe and despite the UK not being in the Euro could badly affect us too.

Great uncertainty ahead and I now believe none of the Politicians have any idea what is likely to happen or what the real consequences wiil be for the UK.
Somehow,I hope Greece is kept on board in Europe but I also cannot see patience with Greece holding much longer.

What does happen though will for sure affect the economies of all the European Nations,as much the UK too as well as hitting other Nations too.

No Germany can Eject the Greece
and say no other Nation will leave the €uro.

Greece can then devalue their own money,
and be free from German Control then.

And sure other Nations
Banks will get Hurt
but they will stay alive.

Its far better to Not
to keep the Greece ship afloat
hit it with bombers.

[thesheriff443]

a bit of insider info people are working flat out printing the old currencies of the countries that joined the euro its only a matter of time before the euro collapses.

[arista]

The Great Steve Bell Artist

[Kizzy]

Am I the only one to be freaked out by the collapse of the euro.. If Europe becomes fragmented how secure are we?...There is safety in numbers.