[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are like robots.
It's like they are talking about what they bought at a store.

There's no passion, no emotion.
Even talking about things they say he did, he didn't like.

Even from the Mother of one so far.
All that seems to have upset them is that Michael Jackson had stopped contacting them much.

As for the underwear blood issue.
He went to get them, he says, saw blood on them and just threw them away..
Not worrying about his blood on them.

Oh come on, for goodness sake, as a child if I was bleeding even from a cut, I'd have near panicked.
I'd certainly have if blood was on my underwear.
I'd have gone straight to my parents.

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

Well indeed yes, extremely good point.
Very well thought out Kazanne.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So they WERE adults when they testified the second time. and why didn't he tell his mom when she asked him he was a grown up then.

James didn't testify a second time, only Wade.


This second part is very powerful, I f8nd them both very believable

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

James didn't testify a second time, only Wade.


This second part is very powerful, I f8nd them both very believable

I know ,I couldn't remember which one even so he was an adult

[UserSince2005]

As someone who was abused as a child I completely 100% relate to wade’s story. He’s telling the truth. I don’t think someone could explain his experience in the way he does if it wasn’t true.

[UserSince2005]

This documentary is actually so important. This is what molestation looks like!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

This documentary is actually so important. This is what molestation looks like!

I was also abused as a kid , I would say not all experiances are the same,mine was not as bad as some but bad enough for me to tell someone straight away.the person in question eventually went to jail, that is how it affected me,I had to tell someone

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

I may have come to actually have even less trust in what they are saying than I did last night.

What I will say there seems there has been a really cold emotionless relationship with at least one of the Mothers.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I may have come to actually have even less trust in what they are saying than I did last night.

What I will say there seems there has been a really cold emotionless relationship with at least one of the Mothers.

Joey it all seems very very bizarre

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was also abused as a kid , I would say not all experiances are the same,mine was not as bad as some but bad enough for me to tell someone straight away.the person in question eventually went to jail, that is how it affected me,I had to tell someone

Yeah anything that traumatic I agree you'd tell someone or at least show warning signs, but as you say every experience is different. But non of their stories add up.

I haven't watched it yet ,but the graphic details of the abuse sounds dodgy to me . Why is it talked about in that way. And the business about blood that I'm hearing sounds stupid , surely you'd tell someone .

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah anything that traumatic I agree you'd tell someone or at least show warning signs, but as you say every experience is different. But non of their stories add up.

I haven't watched it yet ,but the graphic details of the abuse sounds dodgy to me . Why is it talked about in that way. And the business about blood that I'm hearing sounds stupid , surely you'd tell someone .

I was 9 Goldheart and I told my brother on the same day it happened,so to leave it for 2 decades is strange to me,I don't think there is any need for the graphic details either .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was 9 Goldheart and I told my brother on the same day it happened,so to leave it for 2 decades is strange to me,I don't think there is any need for the graphic details either .

With all due respect Kaz, people react differently and people waiting years to face child sexual abuse is quite common

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

With all due respect Kaz, people react differently and people waiting years to face child sexual abuse is quite common

Apparently so and that is their way I guess,I just found I had to tell someone and quick and lucky that I did.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by iRyan

Macaulay Culkin And Corey Feldman were also already famous Hollywood actors prior to meeting Michael, and perhaps had more consciously involved parents that weren’t as blinded or manipulated by MJ’s starpower. They weren’t plucked from obscurity and groomed like Michael’s accusers and their families. It seems likely that he would theoretically choose his victims based on who he believed he could get away with abusing.

Macauley Culkin was already friends with MJ before he hit the big time.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by iRyan

There is simply not always going to be hard evidence in sexual abuse cases, especially those involving children. From the way it’s been described, Michael was extremely calculated in how he carried out the abuse. What other evidence could there possibly be other than the word of people who crossed paths with him? I’m sure he was smarter than to have child pornography laying around or have acts that occurred in his own home be recorded on camera. Although there was this particular instance of a housekeeper who testified against him, which rings very clear alarm bells:

I never said there is going to be hard evidence, especially all of these years later. I'm simply pointing out that words are just that and not the hard evidence some people seem to want it to be.

Originally Posted by iRyan

But by all means believe what you want I guess.

Not sure why you're saying this, as though I'm simply believing anything. There's no evidence either way so my opinion is just like yours.... based on the words of people we've never met.

To clarify, I don't necessarily believe MJ is innocent of all of these allegations. But I definitely do not believe in a trial by media 10 years after his death because a couple of blokes have a vendetta against his estate.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cause it's a documentary about the 2 boys, not Jackson.

Bull.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jake.

The “he missed his childhood” excuse people always use it completely bogus to me. My grandad didn’t have a childhood, he was beaten senseless by his father for the majority of his childhood life. Yet, he knew how to function as an adult and didn’t allow kids to share his bed.

If MJ was a regular member of society, living down your road, and had the bleached skin, ever-thinning nose and publicly stated that he saw no issues with hanging around with children on their own/having sleepovers in the same bed (and that’s before even going into the actual child molestation accusations), he’d be absolutely lambasted. The fact is, people don’t want to let go of the legacy he brought with his music.

No one's used it as an excuse though? It's only ever been used to provide context to the type of person MJ was. Some people who experience trauma as children don't become functioning adults, whether that leads to abuse of others or self destruction. Not an excuse for their behaviour, an explanation as to their warped minds.

As for "If MJ was a regular member of society" I would say 80% of the things you list, especially his surgery and bleached skin most likely wouldn't have been the case if he'd lived an ordinary life. He can't be viewed as an average person, because he wasn't regardless of if he was a pedophile or not.

[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah anything that traumatic I agree you'd tell someone or at least show warning signs, but as you say every experience is different. But non of their stories add up.

It’s not traumatic to be groomed. That’s the whole point of being groomed. Once you understand that their stories add up

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Apparently so and that is their way I guess,I just found I had to tell someone and quick and lucky that I did.

Well that would be the ideal way to go about it but when you have intense grooming and brain washing in the mix too it must be very difficult to see a way to do that aswell, especially as a young child. People weren't as open with their kids (generally) year's ago either about potential dangers like that

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

And lets face it sherif, the BBC wouldn't pull his songs if there wasn't an ounce of truth in these claims.

And the BBC know something the rest of the world doesn't?

How ironic.

[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was 9 Goldheart and I told my brother on the same day it happened,so to leave it for 2 decades is strange to me,I don't think there is any need for the graphic details either .

I was 9-12 he was 16-19, I though we had something special. I didn’t want to tell anyone. I wouldn’t say I loved him but I guess our friendship was special over our years together. Wasn’t until I grew up I realised what a freak he was.
Two completely different experiences.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

I was 9-12 he was 16-19, I though we had something special. I didn’t want to tell anyone. I wouldn’t say I loved him but I guess our friendship was special over our years together. Wasn’t until I grew up I realised what a freak he was.
Two completely different experiences.

Yes,mine was not a family member or close friend it was my best friends dad,so yes everyones experience is different

[UserSince2005]

The only thing troubling to me is how wade as an adult can lie in court against someone who is crying out the truth. But that is a deep personality flaw on his part. Almost psychopathic to be able to do that. The other guy knew right from wrong. I can understand him not being ready to talk about it so shutting it all down

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

It’s not traumatic to be groomed. That’s the whole point of being groomed. Once you understand that their stories add up

BS , there's graphic details of sexual abuse so I'm pretty sure even if you were "groomed" you'd be scared as a child if something that graphic happened or you .

[Glenn.]

Can you imagine what he did to poor little bubbles