[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Anyone who believes them deserves Weinstein set upon them.

Well I will point and laugh at his flaccid penis and pathetic bathrobe....then kick him in the bits.

[Parmy]

Actually I would probably wank him off for 5g

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Actually I would probably wank him off for 5g

He wants your bum for that price.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

He wants your bum for that price.

He can pretend he had it for that price, I will charge him 1.75m

[bots]

Linda McCartney told me to fook off once. I think all Beatles and Wings music should be banned.

[Parmy]

In fact. ..at the time I would probably be moonwalking about the school going, I got tossed of by Michael Jackson last night......so I dunno maybe these rumours ain't true after all...cause at that age....ask yourself. Could you keep it in?

[Parmy]

Ok seeing as I have already stayed my experiences earlier in the thread goldheart, and you just ignored me..

The MJ case is so much like my experience.


1..young, impressionable moving to a new house with my family next door to our cousins..instantly looking up to my stronger older by 2 and a half years cousin...

2..he pitches a tent in his back garden in the summer and obvioysly I'm up for camping..

3..normal jokey nights to begin with, then a little experimenting..


4..the doing it because you looked up to him..it felt ok, didn't it...at the time.


5..just guilt for years really, guilt for it feeling ok.

6..ah **** this, am no having this **** anymorem

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ok seeing as I have already stayed my experiences earlier in the thread goldheart, and you just ignored me..

The MJ case is so much like my experience.


1..young, impressionable moving to a new house with my family next door to our cousins..instantly looking up to my stronger older by 2 and a half years cousin...

2..he pitches a tent in his back garden in the summer and obvioysly I'm up for camping..

3..normal jokey nights to begin with, then a little experimenting..


4..the doing it because you looked up to him..it felt ok, didn't it...at the time.


5..just guilt for years really, guilt for it feeling ok.

6..ah **** this, am no having this **** anymorem

I'm not an idiot I understand all that but it doesn't fit with James & Wade's stories

I'm not going to believe 2 well known pathological liars ! , its as simply as that . plus if they've lived under oath what makes you think suddenly they're telling the truth??? I can't understand that.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm not an idiot I understand all that but it doesn't fit with James & Wade's stories

I'm not going to believe 2 well known pathological liars ! , its as simply as that . plus if they've lived under oath what makes you think suddenly they're telling the truth??? I can't understand that.

I don't need the word of anyone to judge a man that's slept in the same bed as a boy from the age of 9 or whatever to the age of 16...nah...sorry.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm not an idiot I understand all that but it doesn't fit with James & Wade's stories

I'm not going to believe 2 well known pathological liars ! , its as simply as that . plus if they've lived under oath what makes you think suddenly they're telling the truth??? I can't understand that.

Pleas show proof of your claim

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ok seeing as I have already stayed my experiences earlier in the thread goldheart, and you just ignored me..

The MJ case is so much like my experience.


1..young, impressionable moving to a new house with my family next door to our cousins..instantly looking up to my stronger older by 2 and a half years cousin...

2..he pitches a tent in his back garden in the summer and obvioysly I'm up for camping..

3..normal jokey nights to begin with, then a little experimenting..


4..the doing it because you looked up to him..it felt ok, didn't it...at the time.


5..just guilt for years really, guilt for it feeling ok.

6..ah **** this, am no having this **** anymorem

No, Parm, your experience is nothing like the MJ case.
There was 2,5 years difference between you and your cousin. So you were almost peers. Not a kid and an adult more than twice his age.
What you describing is two kids/adolescents (?, don't know how old you both were) fooling around which some kids do. I'm sorry you feel he coerced you into it. But you didn't mind it at the time?
It seems to me you feel guilty you enjoyed gay sex in some form, but that's a different matter. Not your cousin's fault you can't come to terms you may be a little gay.
And before you shout at me, I had the same thing done to me by an older cousin.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

No, Parm, your experience is nothing like the MJ case.
There was 2,5 years difference between you and your cousin. So you were almost peers. Not a kid and an adult more than twice his age.
What you describing is two kids/adolescents (?, don't know how old you both were) fooling around which some kids do. I'm sorry you feel he coerced you into it. But you didn't mind it at the time?
It seems to me you feel guilty you enjoyed gay sex in some form, but that's a different matter. Not your cousin's fault you can't come to terms you may be a little gay.
And before you shout at me, I had the same thing done to me by an older cousin.

Yeah it's not comparable with MJ when alleged abuse happened from aged 7 !! while MJ was a grown man . I just can't get my head around a 7 year old not reacting to a grown adult doing graphic disturbing things to him .

Plus the so called victims became adults and still didn't say anything about the abuse until NOW when they're in financial problems.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

No, Parm, your experience is nothing like the MJ case.
There was 2,5 years difference between you and your cousin. So you were almost peers. Not a kid and an adult more than twice his age.
What you describing is two kids/adolescents (?, don't know how old you both were) fooling around which some kids do. I'm sorry you feel he coerced you into it. But you didn't mind it at the time?
It seems to me you feel guilty you enjoyed gay sex in some form, but that's a different matter. Not your cousin's fault you can't come to terms you may be a little gay.
And before you shout at me, I had the same thing done to me by an older cousin.

What I mean h similar is the feelings I and they would have felt because it was someone they and I looked up to....the age difference is the only difference imo...and I didn't enjoy gay sex at all..I thought I enjoyed it because I looked up tomy cousin so much.

[Parmy]

I'm imagining that's how it feels for them...pretty confusing, and a lot of soul searching and guilt...

[joeysteele]

Some of us, and I'd hope most of the population.
Just like to balance things and fully explore all and particularly both sides.

I have one of the most suspicious minds imaginable, however that works both ways too.
I am suspicious of both accusers and accused.

Words are easy to say and anything can be said either way too.
However when it happens that for near decades someone has said and sworn one thing.
Then changes their minds years after that sends my suspicious bells ringing.

These 2 were around at the Chandler issue and the other charges brought against MJ.

They saw no one go to prison.
So saw they could speak out.
To do so when who they are accusing is dead and adding a claim for money.
That has really fired up my suspicious mind, to the point I don't trust them and don't believe their testimony can be trusted.

It is serious to abuse children, it's one of the worst crimes.
It also is equally serious to accuse someone of it too.

To do so.
After never doing so all the time the person was alive to put their side, is worrying.

I know, and have come across groomed and sexually abused individuals.
Of all of them,.I have yet to find one who even wanted to keep anything that reminded them of their abuser, never mind doing so.

I weigh all up.
I would be the first to say MJ was really strange.
Even that I consider it inappropriate to share a bed with children.

However, that in itself does NOT prove he molested them.
All the investigations in the rooms they were in,the thorough checks done, all produced no evidence of sexual abuse.

So that's why I do not believe these 2 now and stay with the not guilty verdicts on all charges at his trial.
Where he, Michael Jackson defended himself and was submitted to cross examination as to his defence.

Something these 2 are never likely to have to do despite their changed minds and their accusations now.

I for one, just like to explore all sides and hear what all involved say, in any of these cases.
As to accusers and the one/s accused.

We've heard here and elsewhere, this is why sexual abuse cases fail because the accusers are not believed.

On the other side, the point is as I've come across, so many cases are rooted in false accusations at times too.
Which often can have equally devastating effects on the accused, even at times too after acquittal.

[Christmas Lights]

Didn't Wade's wife claim she didn't have any knowledge of sexual abuse yet they've both set up a charity page to help victims as she's a survivor of abuse . Yet said she had no experience of abuse .

The charity page asking for donations sounds like a scam

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm not an idiot I understand all that but it doesn't fit with James & Wade's stories

I'm not going to believe 2 well known pathological liars ! , its as simply as that . plus if they've lived under oath what makes you think suddenly they're telling the truth??? I can't understand that.

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Didn't Wade's wife claim she didn't have any knowledge of sexual abuse yet they've both set up a charity page to help victims as she's a survivor of abuse . Yet said she had no experience of abuse .

The charity page asking for donations sounds like a scam

They're "pathological" liars and the charity is probably "a scam"? Your reaching is getting more and more desperate, here, surely. Do you even actually know what the term "pathological liar" means?

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They're "pathological" liars and the charity is probably "a scam"? Your reaching is getting more and more desperate, here, surely. Do you even actually know what the term "pathological liar" means?

I'm "desperate" ???
Pretty sure safechuck , Robson & Reed are the desperate ones but OK

[Christmas Lights]

His bedroom was the size of an apartment complex. It's not your average bedroom , families have slept there.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Some of us, and I'd hope most of the population.
Just like to balance things and fully explore all and particularly both sides.

I have one of the most suspicious minds imaginable, however that works both ways too.
I am suspicious of both accusers and accused.

Words are easy to say and anything can be said either way too.
However when it happens that for near decades someone has said and sworn one thing.
Then changes their minds years after that sends my suspicious bells ringing.

These 2 were around at the Chandler issue and the other charges brought against MJ.

They saw no one go to prison.
So saw they could speak out.
To do so when who they are accusing is dead and adding a claim for money.
That has really fired up my suspicious mind, to the point I don't trust them and don't believe their testimony can be trusted.

It is serious to abuse children, it's one of the worst crimes.
It also is equally serious to accuse someone of it too.

To do so.
After never doing so all the time the person was alive to put their side, is worrying.

I know, and have come across groomed and sexually abused individuals.
Of all of them,.I have yet to find one who even wanted to keep anything that reminded them of their abuser, never mind doing so.

I weigh all up.
I would be the first to say MJ was really strange.
Even that I consider it inappropriate to share a bed with children.

However, that in itself does NOT prove he molested them.
All the investigations in the rooms they were in,the thorough checks done, all produced no evidence of sexual abuse.

So that's why I do not believe these 2 now and stay with the not guilty verdicts on all charges at his trial.
Where he, Michael Jackson defended himself and was submitted to cross examination as to his defence.

Something these 2 are never likely to have to do despite their changed minds and their accusations now.

I for one, just like to explore all sides and hear what all involved say, in any of these cases.
As to accusers and the one/s accused.

We've heard here and elsewhere, this is why sexual abuse cases fail because the accusers are not believed.

On the other side, the point is as I've come across, so many cases are rooted in false accusations at times too.
Which often can have equally devastating effects on the accused, even at times too after acquittal.

That's fair enough Joey but if you truly had a suspicious mind surely the most you could say is "Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, we may never know"... but thus far you have been adamant that he definitely did not do it so I'd suggest your suspicious mind in this case, for whatever reason, only appears to work one way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's fair enough Joey but if you truly had a suspicious mind surely the most you could say is "Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, we may never know"... but thus far you have been adamant that he definitely did not do it so I'd suggest your suspicious mind in this case, for whatever reason, only appears to work one way.

Because I've explained comprehensiveky why I am at the conclusions I've reached if you bothered to really understand it.

You just throw out all pro MJ matter as you just believe, totally this pair it seems.

Its all there in my post why with my suspicious mind, I have reached the point I am at.

My conclusion works one way now, from weighing all up on both sides.
So what you're trying to infer as my mind working one way for whatever reason, I'd like to know.

Since my reasons for my position on this are all clearly laid out in my post.

No whatever other reasons at all.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Because I've explained comprehensiveky why I am at the conclusions I've reached if you bothered to really understand it.

You just throw out all pro MJ matter as you just believe, totally this pair it seems.

Its all there in my post why with my suspicious mind, I have reached the point I am at.

My conclusion works one way now, from weighing all up on both sides.
So what you're trying to infer as my mind working one way for whatever reason, I'd like to know.

Since my reasons for my position on this are all clearly laid out in my post.

No whatever other reasons at all.

There's no concrete proof that he abused them but there's also no concrete proof that they're lying; it's all just observations and various statements from each side. Your reasoning for any of us believing one argument over the other can only be on faith and balance of probabilities, at the end of the day, and it's odd to claim that it's anything other than that? A 100% suspicious mind would be equally suspicious of the counter-statements against Robson and Safechuck but you clearly are not... you choose to believe those counter-statements and in Jackson's innocence wholeheartedly. That's faith - not a suspicious mind.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's no concrete proof that he abused them but there's also no concrete proof that they're lying; it's all just observations and various statements from each side. Your reasoning for any of us believing one argument over the other can only be on faith and balance of probabilities, at the end of the day, and it's odd to claim that it's anything other than that? A 100% suspicious mind would be equally suspicious of the counter-statements against Robson and Safechuck but you clearly are not... you choose to believe those counter-statements and in Jackson's innocence wholeheartedly. That's faith - not a suspicious mind.

Very convenient that When safechuck & Robson have financial problems that's when they remember they were abused by MJ .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's no concrete proof that he abused them but there's also no concrete proof that they're lying; it's all just observations and various statements from each side. Your reasoning for any of us believing one argument over the other can only be on faith and balance of probabilities, at the end of the day, and it's odd to claim that it's anything other than that? A 100% suspicious mind would be equally suspicious of the counter-statements against Robson and Safechuck but you clearly are not... you choose to believe those counter-statements and in Jackson's innocence wholeheartedly. That's faith - not a suspicious mind.

TS, you are asking the same thing over and over and its all in my post why I am at the point I am and have come to hold the view I have on this now.
Also try to avoid telling me how to think, I know very well how to.


So to save time as Mrs May often says at PMQs.

'' I refer you to the answer I gave a while ago''.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Come on parmy he just wanted to be a child again