[Stu]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Quote from your post=Do you really understand the religion you claim to follow or is it just a convorsation piece?
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That seems like a question aimed at me,so I assume your post Was aimed at me,why is it people cannot ask a question on here without people getting so defensive,blimey,I was just curious,no wonder people leave here in droves.

I didn't call your name. I didn't even quote your post. 'You' = any Christian reading the post who thinks its silly for non believers to celebrate.

Stop being so melodramatic. Nobody attacked you. I'm just answering the questions you are asking. I'm not getting defensive. You are. As a result of having to explain all of this to you in black and white I probably look like a pretentious prat through no fault of my own.

Simple.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tinsels

I didn't call your name. I didn't even quote your post. 'You' = any Christian reading the post who thinks its silly for non believers to celebrate.

Stop being so melodramatic. Nobody attacked you. I'm just answering the questions you are asking. I'm not getting defensive. You are. As a result of having to explain all of this to you in black and white I probably look like a pretentious prat through no fault of my own.

Simple.

Stu V Kazanne

*gets the popcorn*

[Stu]

*sigh* There's nothing actually happening. I'm not looking for a 'fight'. I'm giving my views on Christmas then being told I'm a bit of a dick for doing so because I have to explain things to people who don't get it.

[Shaun]

It's no more unusual than celebrating Halloween - it may shock you to hear that I don't believe the dead are resurrected for a festival.

edit: quite literally, if you're really Christian

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tinsels

*sigh* There's nothing actually happening. I'm not looking for a 'fight'. I'm giving my views on Christmas then being told I'm a bit of a dick for doing so because I have to explain things to people who don't get it.

You've obviously taken my question the totally the wrong way,you don't have to explain anything to me,I was never personally attacking anyone,I was just curious,but seem to have offended you for some reason,so maybe it's best left at that.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

It's no more unusual than celebrating Halloween - it may shock you to hear that I don't believe the dead are resurrected for a festival.

edit: quite literally, if you're really Christian

Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to realise there is no comparison.

[Patrick]

Christmas isn't about God anymore for ****** sake it's 2010, It hasn't been about that bloke God in years.

I feel sorry for people who still got mass tbh especially on Christmas day.

I celebrate it because I ******ing want Presents and I cba being the only one in the entire city not into it when everyone else is shoving it in your face.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by kazanne

You've obviously taken my question the totally the wrong way

No I have not. You asked did I celebrate Christmas, I said I did. And I explained why.

I really, really, really don't see the complication.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to believe there is no comparison.

Halloween is a celebration thing for Ghosts and stuff, How the ****** is that not real?

Ghosts ARE Real.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to believe there is no comparison.

Yes but the point I'm making is that it's all to do with context. The traditional religious meaning behind Christmas is becoming more and more ignored, and in its place substituted with commercial, secular traditions.

1000 years ago it was probably not unusual for pagans to believe in the resurrection of the dead - but attitudes have changed.

[not to say I don't respect the religious aspect of the holiday...it at least makes a good story ]

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Christmas isn't about God anymore for ****** sake it's 2010, It hasn't been about that bloke God in years.

I feel sorry for people who still got mass tbh especially on Christmas day.

I celebrate it because I ******ing want Presents and I cba being the only one in the entire city not into it when everyone else is shoving it in your face.

Why dont you keep your foul rants for someone who gives a damn, you cant answer anything without swearing ,well I am not impressed save it for the like minded.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

Yes but the point I'm making is that it's all to do with context. The traditional religious meaning behind Christmas is becoming more and more ignored, and in its place substituted with commercial, secular traditions.

1000 years ago it was probably not unusual for pagans to believe in the resurrection of the dead - but attitudes have changed.

[not to say I don't respect the religious aspect of the holiday...it at least makes a good story ]

I understand that and at least you had the grace too answer in a decent way.you should give Patrick some lessons.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I find it very strange,considering the meaning of the word Christmas is Christ Mass, A holy descriptive made for the reverence of Jesus.

Theological bit over, Whether people are religious or not is immaterial since there are many festivals over all cultures all around the Christmas period, as well as the fact it was also a pagan time for some celebration too,Yes,I accept it was hijacked by the Churches for the Christian Christmas

If you say you celebrate Christmas then you are indicating a connection to its Christian roots.I find it so odd when I hear people say in Stores,as to religious scenes on Chrismas cards 'what has that to do to with Christmas'.Unbelieveable.

I personally hold a Christian belief and celebrate Christmas in both ways, one in the religious aspect and then with my friends and family. I actually find it sad that the message of Christmas seems lost now,its far too commercialised.

The word christ is from the greek Kristos which in turn is a translation of the Hebrew word Masiah which translates directly to English as Messiah. There were other people in the Jewish people both before and after old JC that would have also been called Christ.

The term christian meaning a follower of Jesus the Nazarean was first used by Syrians in Damascus.

Celebrating a mid winter feasting etc is far older than the christian celebration. The Romans celebrated Bruma later Saturnalia and the feasts of Sol Invictas well before there was a christmas. Pagans in Scandinavia and Northern Germany celebrated Yule at mid winter. Mithraists (a Zoroastrian religion from Persia) had the birth of their main deity as 25 Dec. Long before jesus was a missed period for Mary.

The mid winter date for JC's birth first appears in the 3rd century. But at that time celebrating a birth date was looked upon by early christians as being very pagan.

Thats not to say christians deliberately took the mid winter festival date to lure pagans into conversion as the date of christmas appears to have been set because of a belief the day he died was the same day of the year as he was conceived. Which some old scholar worked out as March 25(the feast of the Annunciation).

Some early christians had April as his birth day, others has Jan 6th, which to keep them sweet was kept as a holy day (the Epiphany) when the church adopted 25th Dec.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Shasown

The word christ is from the greek Kristos which in turn is a translation of the Hebrew word Masiah which translates directly to English as Messiah. There were other people in the Jewish people both before and after old JC that would have also been called Christ.

The term christian meaning a follower of Jesus the Nazarean was first used by Syrians in Damascus.

Celebrating a mid winter feasting etc is far older than the christian celebration. The Romans celebrated Bruma later Saturnalia and the feasts of Sol Invictas well before there was a christmas. Pagans in Scandinavia and Northern Germany celebrated Yule at mid winter. Mithraists (a Zoroastrian religion from Persia) had the birth of their main deity as 25 Dec. Long before jesus was a missed period for Mary.

The mid winter date for JC's birth first appears in the 3rd century. But at that time celebrating a birth date was looked upon by early christians as being very pagan.

Thats not to say christians deliberately took the mid winter festival date to lure pagans into conversion as the date of christmas appears to have been set because of a belief the day he died was the same day of the year as he was conceived. Which some old scholar worked out as March 25(the feast of the Annunciation).

Some early christians had April as his birth day, others has Jan 6th, which to keep them sweet was kept as a holy day (the Epiphany) when the church adopted 25th Dec.

There are many translations and many different assumptions as to what this word or that word means. Which is why I pointed out that all over in other cultures there were also set festivals around the Christmas period.

I also think you have far more eloquently than myself, (I am not a scholar of Theology),presented several other interpetrations and also aspects of them.

I found your post really interesting, comprehensive and there is little on it that I feel strongly enough to dispute or challenge.

In all reality, I would be more likely to agree with your detailed post as to this event rather than I would with learned Scholars and the Ministry of the Faith I belong to.

Whether you speak from a Christian, other Faith, agnostic or even Atheist perspective,in your post as I read it, I found near all of it I agreed with,I do however make a point of rarely discussing religion or arguing about it.
At the end of the day none of us really have all,few or all the answers anyway.

[Princess]

It's not really about religion anymore and no one really celebrates it as such.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by XmasPudding

Stu V Kazanne

*gets the popcorn*

ahhhhhh... it all makes sense now.

[Stu]

Don't keep us all in suspense, whatever you do.

[If you don't answer I will assume I'm on your world famous Ignore list].

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?

I celebrate Christmas inasmuch as I do the tree, the prezzies, the celebrating. Today is the first day of Hanukkah, and as a Jew I celebrate that as a religious festival, but I still like to do the Christmas thing because it is a time of year when people are kinder to each other. Well, maybe not on here, but generally.

Happy Hanukkah any Jewish FMs, by the way. And any non-Jewish FMs actually.

[30stone]

I love Christmas best time of the year