[the truth]

1)
BENEFITS

[the truth]

to escape war
we SPEAK ENGLISH
benefits
soft legal system
then they arrive and see uk isn't all that

[empire]

intruth, what do school leavers, get after. leaving school, nothing but useless exams, and teachers fed them with false crap about getting the job before they are eighteen, schools have made kids do far to much coursework, when I was doing trainee work, the amount of paperwork for pay every week and reporting my hours at work was a joke, parents obsession with trying to label their children with conditions that might not even exist, will end up only making them have a disadvantage in life, britains education system needs badly reformed, the teachers union, has to much control, and with it, you will have corruption, and alot of unhappy kids,

[Kizzy]

Hmmm with some kids it's a wonder teachers here aren't the unhappiest in the world too they get the blame for far too much, they didn't design the curriculum and I would bet if they had their way they would scrap it.
I feel education is being dumbed down, kids leaving able to function on paper but not in practice, even with the most basic sentence structure.

[AnnieK]

I'm so glad my son is starting school in 2 weeks after reading this thread

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Reading some of the threads on here lately about how terrible a race the Brits are and what a dreadful place this really is, has me wondering just why so many immigrants want to come here.

Number one reason Truth actually got right in his rambling, but no it's not benefits, it's that if they speak any language at all other than their own (even if it's only a little) - that language is usually English - and so it's much easier for them to exist here than in other European countries.

Second reason is most probably that they have an idealised version of what it's like here told to them before they come...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm so glad my son is starting school in 2 weeks after reading this thread

Another brick in the wall... jk bless him, hope he loves it

[the truth]

I couldn't tell one tedious student from another theses days, most of the graduates ive met in recent years can only be described as morons

each is phone obsessed text obsessed self obsessed , theyre a tedious homgenized egotist bunch of bores. none have any practical skills, how many can re wire anything, rebuild anything, would any know one end of a track rod end from another? how many could even change a fuse? in fact many cant even count properly? yet everyone has straight A plusses in everything, otherwise they claim they've been abused

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hmmm with some kids it's a wonder teachers here aren't the unhappiest in the world too they get the blame for far too much, they didn't design the curriculum and I would bet if they had their way they would scrap it.
I feel education is being dumbed down, kids leaving able to function on paper but not in practice, even with the most basic sentence structure.

In my view, the problem with Education in the UK is the endless kicking about with it,the experimentation of this and that as to standards and format of education by politicians.

One govt comes in then sets out to change what the previous one did,for as long as Education is messed about by all govts rather than setting in place an education system that at least has continuity to it, then there will be dissatisfaction across the board.

Let Teachers teach, work with them to come up with a sensible and long term programme as to Education policy, worked out and agreed by all parties in agreement too with all concerned.

Then we may see an Education system that works for all but for me the main thing is to remove it from the political arena and stop this see sawing nonsense of each new govt, feeling the need to muck about and change things when really all that does, is in the end create more problems.

No wonder pupils are unhappy,at times they must wonder what they are doing and for Teachers, it must often be the case that they wonder whether it is worth bothering worrying about the changes each new govt brings in, since it could all likely change again in a few years.
No wonder there is misery,disappointment,unhappiness and even confusion among those being educated in the UK.

They are constantly being failed by all govts and far too often too.

[Kizzy]

I think with the expansion of free schools I think things will get a lot worse

[lostalex]

as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.

That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.

Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

In my view, the problem with Education in the UK is the endless kicking about with it,the experimentation of this and that as to standards and format of education by politicians.

One govt comes in then sets out to change what the previous one did,for as long as Education is messed about by all govts rather than setting in place an education system that at least has continuity to it, then there will be dissatisfaction across the board.

Let Teachers teach, work with them to come up with a sensible and long term programme as to Education policy, worked out and agreed by all parties in agreement too with all concerned.

Then we may see an Education system that works for all but for me the main thing is to remove it from the political arena and stop this see sawing nonsense of each new govt, feeling the need to muck about and change things when really all that does, is in the end create more problems.

No wonder pupils are unhappy,at times they must wonder what they are doing and for Teachers, it must often be the case that they wonder whether it is worth bothering worrying about the changes each new govt brings in, since it could all likely change again in a few years.
No wonder there is misery,disappointment,unhappiness and even confusion among those being educated in the UK.

They are constantly being failed by all govts and far too often too.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.

That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.

Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Happiness beyond the basic needs such as food, water, shelter and companionship is really not linked to wealth at all so there is absolutely no reason to assume that just because a country is "poorer", its people aren't happier.

Some people live very happy, content lives almost completely "off the grid" with no material wealth at all. Some very rich people are so miserable that they take their own lives before they hit middle age.

The UK is a miserable place. People have miserable, materialistic priorities here. That's pushed by parents, in schools, and by the government every day... trying to convince us all from the age of 5 that the ultimate goals in life are "good grades", for "good jobs" and then "plenty of money" (and then supposedly you will be happy). When you combine that with crappy weather conditions that stop people from getting back to any sort of natural state at all, then no, it's not surprising that we're an unhappy nation at all.

...yes I agree, happiness is not linked to wealth at all, hence as you say, some very rich people take their own lives ..there are also things like mental illness involved there which doesn't recognise 'rich' or 'poor', so that has to be considered as well...but basic things like food, water, shelter etc will only create survival, they won't create thriving or happiness either ..what some and many 'off the grid' people do have is positivity..it's not money or lack of it..'the simple unmaterialistic' life..it's their whole ability of being able to see positives in their lives ...I can only comment on my own experience in primary school level and I have never known any teacher/member of staff who has a thought or teaches that a child's ultimate are good grades, good jobs and plenty of money and that will create happiness for them...what they encourage is for a child to reach the best of their potential, whatever that potential is and that is a positive thing/not a negative thing...


...you say misery, misery, misery is pushed and crappy weather conditions..and that's the reason why it's a nation of unhappy young people..(according to this report..)...well, each year we have a children's African dance group visit our school, some of the 'happiest' children that I've ever met...they have some pretty crappy weather conditions also and their 'misery' is that they have no parents/families because they've lost them in the most brutal circumstances and they've been exposed to the most horrific things in their lives so what could be more 'miserable'.. but they're happy because they're positive..parents don't play a part because they have none..schools don't really play a part because they have the most basic of educations ..their happiness is within themselves, also unhappiness/negativity is within us as well and within them, it's just really what you focus on and what they focus on..all primary schools I know focus on the positive in children..so actually I do think..(and agree with Armand) that it is surprising because comparatively our children are given a good foundation in life to be positive and to believe in themselves...for the most part...funding, well that will always be a thing as it is in lots of areas but I think one thing that is not focused on enough are life skills and coping skills because really a 'healthy mind' will always create reaching full potential and a happy child...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.

That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.

Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.

..it's actually often quite difficult and a struggle to get a diagnosis on school children here, Alex...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yes I agree, happiness is not linked to wealth at all, hence as you say, some very rich people take their own lives ..there are also things like mental illness involved there which doesn't recognise 'rich' or 'poor', so that has to be considered as well...but basic things like food, water, shelter etc will only create survival, they won't create thriving or happiness either ..what some and many 'off the grid' people do have is positivity..it's not money or lack of it..'the simple unmaterialistic' life..it's their whole ability of being able to see positives in their lives ...I can only comment on my own experience in primary school level and I have never known any teacher/member of staff who has a thought or teaches that a child's ultimate are good grades, good jobs and plenty of money and that will create happiness for them...what they encourage is for a child to reach the best of their potential, whatever that potential is and that is a positive thing/not a negative thing...


...you say misery, misery, misery is pushed and crappy weather conditions..and that's the reason why it's a nation of unhappy young people..(according to this report..)...well, each year we have a children's African dance group visit our school, some of the 'happiest' children that I've ever met...they have some pretty crappy weather conditions also and their 'misery' is that they have no parents/families because they've lost them in the most brutal circumstances and they've been exposed to the most horrific things in their lives so what could be more 'miserable'.. but they're happy because they're positive..parents don't play a part because they have none..schools don't really play a part because they have the most basic of educations ..their happiness is within themselves, also unhappiness/negativity is within us as well and within them, it's just really what you focus on and what they focus on..all primary schools I know focus on the positive in children..so actually I do think..(and agree with Armand) that it is surprising because comparatively our children are given a good foundation in life to be positive and to believe in themselves...for the most part...funding, well that will always be a thing as it is in lots of areas but I think one thing that is not focused on enough are life skills and coping skills because really a 'healthy mind' will always create reaching full potential and a happy child...

Brilliant Ammi. You have no equal when you are really passionate on a subject.

[rubymoo]

The problem is that children here are too molly coddled, parents are afraid to let them out to play for fear of abduction, children don't want to go out because of all their technology, health and safety has gone crazy so children can't even play proper games on the playground (we are a fearful nation, we live in a suing society), throw into the mix that if such and such has an iphone then they need an iphone, the bullying that is rife in schools and on social media, a lot of children seem to have a poor me attitude - these children i've found usually have no parents at home when they get home from school, so these children just need attention. When a child doesn't have all the lastest stuff they become outcasts, throw into the mix the junk food that they're eating with all the additives, preservatives, sugar, fat and salt content and parents who in some families both of them have to work, and school/nursery starting so early for our children compared to the rest of the world, it's no wonder they are unhappy, in other countries like Africa that Ammi has mentioned, the children are happier because they are all the same, they are as poor as each other, they have experienced the same as each other so are thankful and grateful for their lives, there is no health and safety preventing them from doing things, if they want to climb a tree or play conkers (probably don't have conkers!) but they can, they don't have adults preventing them from exploring their surroundings, they have freedom, they don't have social media so there's no bullying or bragging, the meals they eat are wholesome, fresh and adequate (i know that Africa is a very poor country and a lot of children are malnourished, i'm talking about the children in the areas that are happier, as in the OP), you can bet that these children have no access to McDonalds or Burger King, and in some countries children have a part to play in their families, maybe helping with cooking, farming, looking after siblings etc yet these children are happier, i think happiness comes from being valued and being valid, adults need to understand that children need guidance, support, love, freedom, boundaries, structure, and to feel that they matter, i think we need to get back to basics, but it'll never happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's actually often quite difficult and a struggle to get a diagnosis on school children here, Alex...

i understand, but i also think there is a big push from certain parents to get a psychological diagnosis, when sometimes, it's just bad parents making the problems. the parents what to find a medical solution to something that is actually a family problem.

I love my parents, but they were bad parents. They were so busy with their careers and making a perfect home, that they never gave me any attention and i felt completely alone. so i acted out to get more attention,. but my parents thought "well we have provided everything for him, how can we be possibly to blame?" and of course when your parents are paying the bills the psychologist agree's with them.

i didn't need medication. i didn't need a diagnosis, i just needed my parents to actually spend time with me, instead of spending all of their time working and planning and setting up[ piano lessons and soccer games, and never actually talking to me, or guiding me. It's like they expected teachers and coaches to do all the guiding, when =actually it was THEIR job to guide me and teach me.

some parents don't realize that their number 1 job is to be a teacher. i just wanted my parents to teach me and i didn't know how to express that to them as a child. i didn't know how to ask them for that. i just knew that i was unhappy. and so i acted out to get more attention from them.

my parents would rather believe that i had a psychological disease and needed medication, than believe that i just wanted them to spend more time with me. it's very sad.

children are Not pets. being a parents is more than just providing a nice house, and good food, and piano lessons, and summer camp and tutors. being a parents is so much more than that. Just providing THINGS is not being a good parent.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

The problem is that children here are too molly coddled, parents are afraid to let them out to play for fear of abduction, children don't want to go out because of all their technology, health and safety has gone crazy so children can't even play proper games on the playground, throw into the mix that if such and such has an iphone then they need an iphone, the bullying that is rife in schools and on social media, a lot of children seem to have a poor me attitude - these children i've found usually have no parents at home when they get home from school, so these children just need attention. When a child doesn't have all the lastest stuff they become outcasts, throw into the mix the junk food that they're eating with all the additives, preservatives, sugar, fat and salt content and parents who in some families both of them have to work, and school/nursery starting so early for our children compared to the rest of the world, it's no wonder they are unhappy, in other countries like Africa that Ammi has mentioned, the children are happier because they are all the same, they are as poor as each other, they have experienced the same as each other so are thankful and grateful for their lives, there is no health and safety preventing them from doing things, if they want to climb a tree or play conkers (probably don't have conkers!) but they can, they don't have adults preventing them from exploring their surroundings, they have freedom, they don't have social media so there's no bullying or bragging, the meals they eat are wholesome, fresh and adequate (i know that Africa is a very poor country and a lot of children are malnourished, i'm talking about the children in the areas that are happier, as in the OP), you can bet that these children have no access to McDonalds or Burger King, and in some countries children have a part to play in their families, maybe helping with cooking, farming, looking after siblings etc yet these children are happier, i think happiness comes from being valued and being valid, adults need to understand that children need guidance, support, love, freedom, boundaries, structure, and to feel that they matter, i think we need to get back to basics, but it'll never happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm

..see, in our school and all local primary schools, children are not allowed things like phones/mobiles and not allowed logos on clothes and for things like schools visits..?...they're not allowed spending money so none will feel 'excluded' in any way and that's the foundation they are given, but these things are more in High Schools and it's a whole environment thing and always was/I don't think it's really changed in that ...there is just more stuff available and more affordable now but isn't that a positive..?../it's not seeing things necessarily as a negative ...

..and I don't think that's it with the children I have met either/the African dance group, that it's because 'none have more'...?..I have spent time talking to some as we always have some stay with us and it really is about their positivity as well, they've had their dark times, horrendously dark times but their positivity comes from their music and their dance/that's how they've 'healed' because they focus on that and not on those dark times...

..with childcare and parents not being at home at the end of the school day, etc..?..well there again, my parents weren't always home when school ended but it didn't matter because it was no indication to how secure and safe I always felt and how loved I felt because they gave all of those feeling to me ...and now we have breakfast clubs/after school clubs etc...so, so many children thrive in those, it's a great environment for them and gives so much social experience..it's not so structured as school obviously, so it gives them something completely different and their friendships expand there...all after school clubs that we run are always over subscribed so many children really do enjoy an 'extension' to their school day ...and being 'valued' etc..?..that's the whole ethos of most primary schools..that 'every child matters'....and encouraged in things that they're interested in or particularly feel they're good at....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i understand, but i also think there is a big push from certain parents to get a psychological diagnosis, when sometimes, it's just bad parents making the problems. the parents what to find a medical solution to something that is actually a family problem.

I love my parents, but they were bad parents. They were so busy with their careers and making a perfect home, that they never gave me any attention and i felt completely alone. so i acted out to get more attention,. but my parents thought "well we have provided everything for him, how can we be possibly to blame?" and of course when your parents are paying the bills the psychologist agree's with them.

i didn't need medication. i didn't need a diagnosis, i just needed my parents to actually spend time with me, instead of spending all of their time working and planning and setting up[ piano lessons and soccer games, and never actually talking to me, or guiding me. It's like they expected teachers and coaches to do all the guiding, when =actually it was THEIR job to guide me and teach me.

some parents don't realize that their number 1 job is to be a teacher. i just wanted my parents to teach me and i didn't know how to express that to them as a child. i didn't know how to ask them for that. i just knew that i was unhappy. and so i acted out to get more attention from them.

my parents would rather believe that i had a psychological disease and needed medication, than believe that i just wanted them to spend more time with me. it's very sad.

children are Not pets. being a parents is more than just providing a nice house, and good food, and piano lessons, and summer camp and tutors. being a parents is so much more than that. Just providing THINGS is not being a good parent.

..yeah, I do see ..I'm sure that your parents actions were always out of love and the belief that they were doing a great job but it's funny how, what is given is not always what is received and sometimes the very opposite thing, really...they wanted you in their life/to make you happy but they wanted other things as well, which made them happy and filled their lives and somehow, it didn't all fit and then it's always going to be the child who feels it most...maybe they set up all of these things, like piano lessons etc because those were suggestions to them...why don't you try/I think this may be good for him..?.../type thing so feeling as lost as you were in a way as well..and so they would just flounder in their confusion as well ...and not able to see it so give you the guidance that you needed and with that guidance, make you believe in yourself....just really sad for all of you, I can see that..if only there was a handbook and if only there was hindsight but there when you need it to be there...beforesight.../at the right time sight....

[James]

Another view.

England not named world’s second worst nation for child happiness

“England named ‘second worst nation’ for child happiness” - Independent, 19 August 2015. Other outlets, such as the BBC, Independent, Guardian, Mail and Times, reported pupils in England were “among” the most unhappy in the world. The Telegraph made a more restricted claim, that “England’s pupils were ‘unhappier than children in Ethiopia but happier than the Germans’”. These claims all refer to a survey of 10 and 12 year olds in 15 countries, conducted by The Children’s Society and the University of York.

The countries were selected in order to provide a diverse view of children’s well-being in different types of countries. Countries were classified according to a system developed by academics which takes into account different welfare systems. So it tells us how England compares to particular countries deemed different to it, but not how it compares to every other country in the world.

Compared to the 14 other countries in the survey, England’s children were some of the least happy on specific aspects such as their relationship with teachers and self-confidence. On other aspects, such as other people in their family, the local police in their area, and their friends, they ranked between the middle and top out of the 15 countries.

The Independent comments that the research refers to 15 countries in the body of its article. Taken alone though, its headline could be interpreted as meaning England was second worst in the world.

The report doesn’t tell us English pupils were the second most unhappy in the world

The countries selected to take part in the survey were picked in order to study children’s well-being “within different contexts” and so to provide “as diverse a range of countries across as many continents as possible”.

It did this based on a system of classifying countries according to their social welfare, developed by academics. For example, England was picked as a “liberal country”, Germany a “conservative country”, and South Korea an “Asian, productivist welfare state”.

The report tells us how England compares to these other 14 countries, but it doesn’t tell us how England compares to other similar countries (which weren’t included in the research). If we assume that children in similar countries have similar levels of happiness, we can say that England’s pupils were among the most unhappy in the world on certain indicators. But we can’t say that England was the second worst country globally on these indicators.

We can say English children had relatively low satisfaction in terms of relationships with teachers

As widely reported, English pupils were the most likely to have experienced being left out by their classmates in the past month. Though for the children that did experience this, they experienced it less frequently per month than was the case in other countries. They also ranked in the middle of the 15 countries for being hit by another child.

The report notes that just comparing countries’ mean scores for each question has its limitations. For example, children may (due to their culture or language) have a tendency to respond less positively about their well-being in some countries compared to others. So it also identified areas where the happiness of English pupils was particularly high or low compared to their happiness across the survey topics as a whole.

On this basis, children in England were most satisfied with relationships with family members who they didn’t live with, money and possessions, friendships, and local police.

What they were relatively unsatisfied with was relationships with their teachers, their body, the way they look, and their self-confidence.

Pupils’ school experience wasn’t always the worst performing in the rankings: England also came 10th out of 15 for pupils’ opinions on their “life as a student”.

Other pupil surveys suggest English children are happier than average

In 2012, 84% of 15 year olds reported they were happy at school in the OECD’s international PISA survey, compared to an average of 80% in the 34 OECD member countries looked at. This asked more of an overview question about happiness and satisfaction at school rather than the specific aspects asked about in The Children’s Society survey.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/educa...appiness-47334

I'm not sure how much you can trust polls which ask people, basically, 'How do you feel?'

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..see, in our school and all local primary schools, children are not allowed things like phones/mobiles and not allowed logos on clothes and for things like schools visits..?...they're not allowed spending money so none will feel 'excluded' in any way and that's the foundation they are given, but these things are more in High Schools and it's a whole environment thing and always was/I don't think it's really changed in that ...there is just more stuff available and more affordable now but isn't that a positive..?../it's not seeing things necessarily as a negative ...

Children brag, though. Just because they aren't bringing their belongings to school, doesn't mean they aren't telling everyone about the things they've got at home, or the trips they've been on, or the new car their parents have, etc.

Now, that shouldn't really be a problem. Most are probably just excited and want to tell people, they're not trying to make anyone feel bad, it SHOULDN'T make anyone feel bad, people should be able to just be happy for their friends. However, as mentioned earlier, in a nation where "success" is measured by which job you have, how much money you have in the bank, what car you drive and where you went on holiday... there are all sorts of other issues tied up in this materialistic nonsense. The purpose and aim of the school system is completely involved in that lifestyle; kids are packed off to school at 4 / 5 years old for two reasons only.

1) So that their parents can get back into the workplace.

2) To start preparing the kids themselves for the workplace as early as possible.

Methods and standards of care vary across the board, but no matter how "nice" anyone is about it, that's the basics of what's going on. That's the system.

..and I don't think that's it with the children I have met either/the African dance group, that it's because 'none have more'...?..I have spent time talking to some as we always have some stay with us and it really is about their positivity as well, they've had their dark times, horrendously dark times but their positivity comes from their music and their dance/that's how they've 'healed' because they focus on that and not on those dark times...

I think you're right in that it's more about their positivity but the question is, where does that positivity come from? Is it just being glad to be alive, is it just because they have sych horrors in their past to compare it to so they know that life is now so much better? Or is it partly cultural? I would imagine it is. The question, then, being: If these kids manage to be happy becuase they have a positive mindset and outlook on life... then what has gone so wrong here to make it so that children - whilst on the surface not having any of those horrors to contend with - have such a negative mindset?

The answer in my opinion is again, all down to how we define success in our culture. And how completely shallow, materialistic and empty it actually is when you really take a look at it. I wonder if kids maybe instinctually feel this. The mounting pressure to enter a rat-race that is for the vast majority of people, ultimately unfulfilling. And also, yes, as Rubymoo says, there is an element of freedom and responsibility that is completely denied to so many children here. To play outdoors without parents fretting about paedophiles, to climb a tree without being berated for it because they "might fall", to just be allowed to live and explore. Bad things happen, but people are paranoid, and they stifle their children because of that. People in cages are never going to be happy.

..with childcare and parents not being at home at the end of the school day, etc..?..well there again, my parents weren't always home when school ended but it didn't matter because it was no indication to how secure and safe I always felt and how loved I felt because they gave all of those feeling to me ...and now we have breakfast clubs/after school clubs etc...so, so many children thrive in those, it's a great environment for them and gives so much social experience..it's not so structured as school obviously, so it gives them something completely different and their friendships expand there...all after school clubs that we run are always over subscribed so many children really do enjoy an 'extension' to their school day

I understand that this is true as I know there are a lot of kids at my daughter's school who love going to after school club, but I have to add, this sort of goes in with what I was saying above. Kids love this after-school socialisation, even though it is completely supervised, and that's because they don't have adequate socialisation with their peers outside of school otherwise. Their aren't kids in their local area, or if there are, they aren't allowed out to spend time with them, because roads / paedophiles / bears and what not. Clubs and supervised play are better than nothing but they don't compare to the freedom to just be out, with friends, exploring, and really getting to know each other, outside of an organised environment.

...and being 'valued' etc..?..that's the whole ethos of most primary schools..that 'every child matters'....and encouraged in things that they're interested in or particularly feel they're good at....

As for this, I know this is the official line Ammi and I know that you really believe in it, but I have to be totally frank and say... it's close to worthless. It's false. Prescribed, curriculum-mandated "value" that really does at the end of the day just feel quite hollow... it's not the same as being truly respected, given responsibility and valued within a family or community. I guess I wouldn't even really call it "being valued"... "Every child matters because there's an official school pamphlet that says Every Child Matters in it so they must! Quick, find something that little Timmy is vaguely OK at and tell him he's awesome. Tomorrow it's Suzie. I'll print a certificate."

As a nation we treat children as inferior and inconvenient. Embryos that we have to push along into adulthood so that they can become "real people", and then we can give them freedom and respect, rather than appreciating that they already have lives and they need more room to live those lives.

[Niamh.]

I'd like to know where Ireland is on that list, I would say I'm pretty happy in general with my kids schools

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'd like to know where Ireland is on that list, I would say I'm pretty happy in general with my kids schools

I would say that the Ireland in general is quite culturally different, more laid-back, kids are allowed to be more free, and also there's a much stronger focus on family.

That might just be me furthering racial stereotypes, though .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I would say that the Ireland in general is quite culturally different, more laid-back, kids are allowed to be more free, and also there's a much stronger focus on family.

That might just be me furthering racial stereotypes, though .

No you're not wrong, certainly in my area anyway there's a lot of community spirit which is carried on through the school. It's a small-ish village where I live and most of the kids would also do after school activities together etc and there's also alot of parent involvement in both the schools and those activities (sports teams, Scouts etc) It's probably a bit different in the city schools

The only thing that I'm unhappy about is the the fact that 90 something percent of all "state" schools in Ireland are still catholic run and that certainly needs to change