[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Neither is being wrongfully imprisoned

Lucky he isn't then

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He gave so many details that some were bound to be right just by probability.

"What happened to her?"

"She was stabbed or shot or strangled or someone hit her on the head or maybe drowned her"

"AHA so you knew she was shot."


That said, even if the interview had been conducted ethically (which it straight up was not), the worst that can be said for a clearly non-neurotypical 16 year old is that he was a victim. Even if Steven never directly laid a hand on him, even if the police narrative is 100% accurate, Brendan to me should clearly be classed as a victim of Avery who was confused, easily manipulated, and felt he had to do as he was told.

Yeah even if he was involved I still feel sorry for him because I have no doubt he was coerced and probably terrified of Steve

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, when watching it I couldn't get my head around that theory.



But it's certainly more plausible than the scenario they kept throwing out, that she fell down the stairs and then kept trying to get up and repeatedly slipped in a pool of her own blood, banging her head against the wall several times. That made him look guilty as sin. But his general demeanour was very cold to me, I definitely don't think his relationship was as open and pleasant as he tried to portray. But obviously, being a prick who shagged around and treated his wife like dirt doesn't mean he killed her. But then there's the whole contrivance/convenience with the poker being found. A baffling case.



Though I did find it quite sad when he was finally released, just how frail and beaten he seemed after all those years.



I pitied the kids. (And Margaret was the SPITTING IMAGE of his son!! ).

I read afterwards that they found her own hair in her hands and feathers, it would make sense that she would fall all awkwardly and be pulling at her hair if an owl attacked her and got tangled up in her hair, it would also explain the wounds on her scalp. There was a particular type of owl native to where they lived that get very aggressive during mating season, which it was at the time. . . Odd as that explanation sounds it fits so much better with her injuries and weird falling around

[DouglasS]

I haven't watched the netflix show but I read he doused a cat in gasoline, tortured it and burned it alive. Thats usually how many killers/physcos start, and so for that reason I think hes guilty. Someone capable of doing that is easily capable of murder.

[Amy Jade]

Happy with him being hung or caged for life for harming innocent animals anyway

[Glenn.]

Cats are grotesque anyway

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

I haven't watched the netflix show but I read he doused a cat in gasoline, tortured it and burned it alive. Thats usually how many killers/physcos start, and so for that reason I think hes guilty. Someone capable of doing that is easily capable of murder.

Absolutely

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Cats are grotesque anyway

[Amy Jade]

Even if you dislike cats he doused one in gas, tortured it (iirc declawed it and ripped its teeth out aswell as swinging it around by its tail) before setting it alite.

Anyone who can do that to an innocent, trusting animal is a scumbag.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Here's a good article for balance

http://thefederalist.com/2018/12/11/...uilty-as-hell/

Nah this is a really poor article, all he does is gloss over the evidence provided by Kathleen and giving generalization and tries to make it sound implausible.

First off, viewers still have to accept that Halbach’s body was moved onto Avery’s property by members of the Manitowoc, Wisconsin police department, or someone else hoping to frame him, then burned in a firepit in front of his home—with other murder tools belonging to Avery—without anyone on the busy property noticing.

Kathleen said bone fragments were found in a third place - the Manitowoc gravel pit, the bones (or what was remaining) was then dumped on Avery’s property, a body wasn’t moved, just the remnants

But the viewer is also asked to believe that police (or some steely nerved mastermind killer who, as far as we know, has never struck before or after) snuck into the Avery home, and not only planted the keys to Halbach’s car in his trailer but also planted Avery’s non-blood DNA onto those keys (as Zellner claims).

The police didn’t need to “sneak in” the key was found on the 3rd or 4th (can’t remember entirely) search of the property, and the original police officers who searched the property said the key was NOT there in the first place, there was also no other DNA on the key apart from Stevens, why wouldn’t there be a trace of Therese’s DNA on the key? Unless it had been scrubbed and the dna planted, DNA found on her car key included too many cells to be transferred by simply holding the key too

She says someone also planted Avery’s non-blood DNA evidence on the inside latch of the trunk of Halbach’s car (and blood in half a dozen places elsewhere in the car) after dumping the car on the property without anyone noticing. All of it before the police showed up.

This one is actually quite funny, because when you watch the show they do an experiment to measure the amount of DNA on the hood latch by recreating someone touching a latch in similar fashion. So basically they do the experiment three times and measure the amount of DNA on the latch each time. In the lab the results showed that in order for the amount of DNA to have been transferred onto the hood latch Steven would have had touch it *90* times. Why/how would that be possible?

This means that that cops, or another murderer, got their hands on a rifle that hung over Avery’s bed, fired it without any of the family’s knowledge, shot a woman in the garage without anyone’s knowledge (or maybe they transported Avery’s gun somewhere else and shot her), then also planted the forensic evidence without anyone’s knowledge. All before the police showed up.

This just doesn’t make sense in terms of his argument, he’s saying it’s ridiculous that the body was moved, but if she was shot/killed in his garage why is there no blood splatter or DNA in the garage to back it up?


BASICALLY niamh, everything in that article is a load of ****e

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Even if you dislike cats he doused one in gas, tortured it (iirc declawed it and ripped its teeth out aswell as swinging it around by its tail) before setting it alite.

Anyone who can do that to an innocent, trusting animal is a scumbag.

Not to mention when he was jailed for that rape part of his sentence was also for running a woman off the road in his car and pulling a gun on her with her child in the back seat

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Nah this is a really poor article, all he does is gloss over the evidence provided by Kathleen and giving generalization and tries to make it sound implausible.







Kathleen said bone fragments were found in a third place - the Manitowoc gravel pit, the bones (or what was remaining) was then dumped on Avery’s property, a body wasn’t moved, just the remnants







The police didn’t need to “sneak in” the key was found on the 3rd or 4th (can’t remember entirely) search of the property, and the original police officers who searched the property said the key was NOT there in the first place, there was also no other DNA on the key apart from Stevens, why wouldn’t there be a trace of Therese’s DNA on the key? Unless it had been scrubbed and the dna planted, DNA found on her car key included too many cells to be transferred by simply holding the key too







This one is actually quite funny, because when you watch the show they do an experiment to measure the amount of DNA on the hood latch by recreating someone touching a latch in similar fashion. So basically they do the experiment three times and measure the amount of DNA on the latch each time. In the lab the results showed that in order for the amount of DNA to have been transferred onto the hood latch Steven would have had touch it *90* times. Why/how would that be possible?







This just doesn’t make sense in terms of his argument, he’s saying it’s ridiculous that the body was moved, but if she was shot/killed in his garage why is there no blood splatter or DNA in the garage to back it up?





BASICALLY niamh, everything in that article is a load of ****e

He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

[MTVN]

Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

Can’t have done it that well if he didn’t get rid of the bullets

Either way, there would have still been blood on the walls/ceiling if she was shot in there, he wouldn’t have been able to remove all traces

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

MTE, he clearly is quite messed up, especially with the cat thing, but I don’t believe he killed Theresa

[Niamh.]

And let's be honest Smithy you were always going to say it was a **** article, your mind is closed on this one

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

Omg, he's on day release?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

There's so much evidence though, both physical and circumstantial

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Omg, he's on day release?

recently in relation to the murder

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And let's be honest Smithy you were always going to say it was a **** article, your mind is closed on this one

But reading the article the writer is already bias by implying that the evidence given is nonsensical, he over exaggerates everything as if it’s impossible, whereas when you see the evidence in front of you, it’s clearly not.

And you may say that the show is bias, but the officers involved didn’t want to comment on the case and Kathleen deconstructs their case in an efficient manner.

I read it with an open mind but everything he said has already been proved or validated with scientific testing, that’s not being closed minded

[Glenn.]

The experiments they did in Series 2 pretty much confirmed that the prosecutions side of events didn’t actually happen. It can’t have. The hood latch, the blood in her car and I can’t remember what but there was something with the bullet found in the garage. There was like a million bullet holes in the wood or something.

[Marsh.]

The blood spatter experiments were a howl.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

But reading the article the writer is already bias by implying that the evidence given is nonsensical, he over exaggerates everything as if it’s impossible, whereas when you see the evidence in front of you, it’s clearly not.



And you may say that the show is bias, but the officers involved didn’t want to comment on the case and Kathleen deconstructs their case in an efficient manner.



I read it with an open mind but everything he said has already been proved or validated with scientific testing, that’s not being closed minded

I wouldn't have wanted to go on that show either if I wasn't saying Steve was innocent, they're only interested in one side

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The experiments they did in Series 2 pretty much confirmed that the prosecutions side of events didn’t actually happen. It can’t have. The hood latch, the blood in her car and I can’t remember what but there was something with the bullet found in the garage. There was like a million bullet holes in the wood or something.

All one sided and theories. Blood splatter tests can be made to look however you want them to. .

[Alf]

Niamh, do you not think it's possible that it was Brendan's step-father and brother that did it? and that the police planted it on Avery because not only had he embarrassed them, but he was due to profit big time off them?


I can't understand how someone who was going to receive the financial gain he was, doing something like this.