[Marsh.]

Jersey: It's not serious...

Also Jersey:

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Dude you're literally spinning in circles over reading one word in a sentence, not understanding what I meant by it, and just repeating it over and over even after I thought I cleared it up. You've done this with multiple points. Wording over full context of the point being made.

Use context clues... this is what I said when you thought I meant this isn't psychological at all, I wasn't saying it wasn't at all:

"I'm not making some big psychological argument where the kids won't develop properly" There are different levels to how things will effect people/kids psychologically, it's not all black and white like you're saying and that's why you think I'm contradicting my argument. So because I'm saying there can be some little psychological elements to it (on both sides of the argument tbh), it's a BIG DEAL and means I'm calling it a major psychological issue? There can be major and/or minor psychological arguments to be made on a situation. But if you're still stuck on that then idk

It's obviously psychological, pro-uniforms is a psychological thing, anti-uniforms is a psychological thing.. but is it a serious psychological case that's going to stump a child's mental growth or something serious like that like you're exaggerating? I don't think so... maybe it can be for certain kids? But my points are a LOT more simpler than that on a grander scheme. It may have been worded poorly but I always said it IS psychological, just not the over-dramatics you keep saying it is.

EDIT: Another quote in response to your record-playing: "- It’s not a huge psychological argument that will affect a kid’s growth but there are some underlying, potential psychological elements to it." Is it that hard to understand this is what I meant ???

And what are your points for pro-uniforms then? You've asked me a ton of questions and I'm answering. I've asked you this countless times now and you don't give a simple breakdown or anything.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Even if you want to say I contradicted myself... like... do you understand it now then after I explain what I actually mean by what I said?

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Ok looking through other posts in the thread...


I addressed these things in one of my first few posts in this thread before the paragraphs of back and forth rambling

But great all-around post Toy Soldier


Actually I think these are all pretty fair arguments but it's more for the parents than the schools to teach upon their kids. So if some kids are going to be materialistic and flaunt what they have, other kids should be sheltered from this during school hours and limited in one of the ways they can express themselves in their own way? Whether fitting in or taking a stand on something, this is all part of growing up for kids. Uniforms aren't going to limit the cliques, and the worries, and the bullying etc... these things will happen all the time in schools with uniforms as well. I don't think it can be hidden from children whether it's 6 hours in a day with their peers or throughout the entire day. It's not something uniforms fix IMO. And it's just not of importance for a kid's education so why are schools essentially censoring them during school hours? They should be free & casual, or whatever they'd like, with what they wear to go learn.


That's good, I don't mind it as much if there's some choice so that the kids don't feel uncomfortable or forced into wearing something There's some more decision making there for what they like and want to wear while learning.

I personally think the saving time argument is an exaggeration though tbh. It should in most cases save maybe 5 minutes or less per morning to not have to pick out an outfit... and if the uniforms are delayed / mis-scheduled in the wash or misplaced somewhere then that's going to actually take a lot of extra time.

I do think it's a pretty good thing for parents though as they'd likely be saving some money on kids' outfits (assuming the prices to get a uniform are reasonable which I believe they are mostly pretty affordable).

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

no and i don't need to know

[SherzyK]

Leave Jersey alone

[Marsh.]

You saying it affects them psychologically doesn't make it a fact.

If uniforms is an "easy" thing for a troublemaker to revolt against so is the fact that school is compulsory, that they can't talk in class, can't use their phone, can only eat at designated break times. You could literally use that argument against anything and everything that isn't letting the kids do whatever they want whenever they want. That isn't life I'm afraid.

I haven't mentioned bullying.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You saying it affects them psychologically doesn't make it a fact.

If uniforms is an "easy" thing for a troublemaker to revolt against so is the fact that school is compulsory, that they can't talk in class, can't use their phone, can only eat at designated break times. You could literally use that argument against anything and everything that isn't letting the kids do whatever they want whenever they want. That isn't life I'm afraid.

I haven't mentioned bullying.

All of those things prevent learning efficiently though? I’m all for rules that give the students a better education. Like come on Marsh, this is like the 5th time at least that you’ve made some bogus argument against like, one specific word or part in my post (like “psychological”) without simply using context clues in the point being made and thinking a little bit critically. You’ve yet to make a point FOR uniforms either so how does your point even hold any weight? Fear of contradiction which you seem to be obsessed over? Because many reasons for pro-uniforms are very contradictory to what you’re arguing against here... I’m just waiting to see if you have a point that I can respond more properly to It’s a bit of a psychological area either way you look at it, key word on bit not the silly exaggerations you’re making, but whether it’s actually a benefit or detriment is what should be considered more and why and if it’s actually necessary in the end. I think pointless or potential detriment more than it ever benefits. From a school perspective I see a lot more why it could benefit them than actual benefits from the students.

And just once more, I said it wasn’t this big psychological uproar you’re making it out to be. It could have some minor psychological impact on kids, good or bad, but I disagree with the points of it being good. Again, I personally think it can only negatively impact a student in class / at school.

At least someone like LT and a few others actually made some points even if I mostly disagree. The whole “unity” thing is imo a very basic (yeah I’m using that word again), rudimentary way of thinking. Like it’s a cute way to think but not actually very effective for obvious reasons (TS got into it a bit & I did a little bit already). They can and should become united while dressing freely, that’s how the world works. When I’m out of work I might get into LT’s other points as well.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

All of those things prevent learning efficiently though? I’m all for rules that give the students a better education. Like come on Marsh, this is like the 5th time at least that you’ve made some bogus argument against like, one specific word or part in my post (like “psychological”) without simply using context clues in the point being made and thinking a little bit critically. You’ve yet to make a point FOR uniforms either so how does your point even hold any weight? Fear of contradiction which you seem to be obsessed over? Because many reasons for pro-uniforms are very contradictory to what you’re arguing against here... I’m just waiting to see if you have a point that I can respond more properly to It’s a bit of a psychological area either way you look at it, key word on bit not the silly exaggerations you’re making, but whether it’s actually a benefit or detriment is what should be considered more and why and if it’s actually necessary in the end. I think pointless or potential detriment more than it ever benefits. From a school perspective I see a lot more why it could benefit them than actual benefits from the students.

And just once more, I said it wasn’t this big psychological uproar you’re making it out to be. It could have some minor psychological impact on kids, good or bad, but I disagree with the points of it being good. Again, I personally think it can only negatively impact a student in class / at school.

At least someone like LT and a few others actually made some points even if I mostly disagree. The whole “unity” thing is imo a very basic (yeah I’m using that word again), rudimentary way of thinking. Like it’s a cute way to think but not actually very effective for obvious reasons (TS got into it a bit & I did a little bit already). They can and should become united while dressing freely, that’s how the world works. When I’m out of work I might get into LT’s other points as well.

I've said why I support them. Using other people's opinions to try and contradict mine doesn't change you contradicting yourself.

You've tied yourself up in knots and continue to do so. "It's not psychological... it's a bit of a psychological area". Good grief.

Great, you're loving LT's work, great. Has zero to do with me sunshine.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I've said why I support them. Using other people's opinions to try and contradict mine doesn't change you contradicting yourself.

You've tied yourself up in knots and continue to do so. "It's not psychological... it's a bit of a psychological area". Good grief.

Great, you're loving LT's work, great. Has zero to do with me sunshine.

Dude you're literally spinning in circles over reading one word in a sentence, not understanding what I meant by it, and just repeating it over and over even after I thought I cleared it up. You've done this with multiple points. Wording over full context of the point being made.

Use context clues... this is what I said when you thought I meant this isn't psychological at all, I wasn't saying it wasn't at all:

"I'm not making some big psychological argument where the kids won't develop properly" There are different levels to how things will effect people/kids psychologically, it's not all black and white like you're saying and that's why you think I'm contradicting my argument. So because I'm saying there can be some little psychological elements to it (on both sides of the argument tbh), it's a BIG DEAL and means I'm calling it a major psychological issue? There can be major and/or minor psychological arguments to be made on a situation. But if you're still stuck on that then idk

It's obviously psychological, pro-uniforms is a psychological thing, anti-uniforms is a psychological thing.. but is it a serious psychological case that's going to stump a child's mental growth or something serious like that like you're exaggerating? I don't think so... maybe it can be for certain kids? But my points are a LOT more simpler than that on a grander scheme. It may have been worded poorly but I always said it IS psychological, just not the over-dramatics you keep saying it is.

EDIT: Another quote in response to your record-playing: "- It’s not a huge psychological argument that will affect a kid’s growth but there are some underlying, potential psychological elements to it." Is it that hard to understand this is what I meant ???

And what are your points for pro-uniforms then? You've asked me a ton of questions and I'm answering. I've asked you this countless times now and you don't give a simple breakdown or anything.

[RileyH]

jersey clocked

[Withano]

For, definitely. But the schools with optional accessories know where it’s at (shirt/polo, jumper/hoody/blazer, shorts/skirts/trousers, even know a school with an optional baseball-style cap). A uniform shouldn’t mean everybody dresses the same imo.

[JerseyWins]

Even if you want to say I contradicted myself... like... do you understand it now then after I explain what I actually mean by what I said?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Even if you want to say I contradicted myself... like... do you understand it now then after I explain what I actually mean by what I said?

There was never a point when I didn't understand. Hence me pointing out your wild contradictions.

Like I'm exaggerating? I haven't suggested kids are psychologically affected by not being able to wear trainers at all.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Jersey: It's not serious...

Also Jersey:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

There was never a point when I didn't understand. Hence me pointing out your wild contradictions.

Like I'm exaggerating? I haven't suggested kids are psychologically affected by not being able to wear trainers at all.

You're being smug, condescending, and a sarcastic smartass in every post. It's a serious debate now from my perspective. I'm just trying to debate against school uniforms while you're simply zoning in on specific delusional contradictions even after I draw it out how they're not contradictions at all. It's just something you haven't wrapped around being more than a black and white concept lol.

The debate seems to be over for you at this point though... now I don't even know your counter-argument yet when it's ended after countless back and forth posts

Just curious, have you learned psychology? Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw. It's actually a common argument FOR school uniforms as well (ie within the bullying argument) but it depends which way you look at it and which psychological side you agree with, for schools to have it or not. But that's already obvious and not an exaggeration unless you make it out to be something bigger than it is. My point with this in particular: I disagree that sheltering kids from wearing their own clothes is going to be a fix for bullying. It's putting a bandaid on a broken finger and not taking the right actions whatsoever.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

You're being smug, condescending, and a sarcastic smartass in every post.

And you're being contradictory, silly and a bit thick.

(See, we can both make personal remarks).

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

The debate seems to be over for you at this point though... now I don't even know your counter-argument yet when it's ended after countless back and forth posts

Just curious, have you learned psychology? Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw. It's actually a common argument FOR school uniforms as well (ie within the bullying argument) but it depends which way you look at it and which psychological side you agree with, for schools to have it or not. But that's already obvious and not an exaggeration unless you make it out to be something bigger than it is. My point with this in particular: I disagree that sheltering kids from wearing their own clothes is going to be a fix for bullying. It's putting a bandaid on a broken finger and not taking the right actions whatsoever.

Many kids learning about psychology is not evidence that school uniforms affect kids psychologically. Hilarious that you think it is tbh.

Still confused why you keep bringing the bullying argument up, I haven't mentioned bullying. Read my posts properly.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Many kids learning about psychology is not evidence that school uniforms affect kids psychologically. Hilarious that you think it is tbh.

Still confused why you keep bringing the bullying argument up, I haven't mentioned bullying. Read my posts properly.

"Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw." Erm that was supposed to be one sentence that wasn't connected to the sentence before. Had nothing to do with psychology classes. I hope I haven't contradicted myself again now.

That's yet another time you just have responded to one little part of my argument, and it just so happens I meant something else again.

Idk if you're trying to do this as a troll at this point. But I do legitimately think I worded that pretty poorly so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time lol.

School uniforms will have some psychological effect on some kids. There's literally no way around that statement... like it might not be a common thing to you but it still happens and it should not be this hard to believe.

[Jessica.]

I liked wearing uniform because I didn't have proper clothes to wear day to day. I think they're good and there wasn't really an option to wear cheaper or more expensive versions of our specific uniform, it all had to be the same one from the same shop. The most popular shoes were actually some plain black ones from a very cheap shoe shop.

Times have changed a lot in the past ten years since I was in school and I think most young people don't care about labels and prefer to express their own style.

So I think my answer is both.

[JerseyWins]

Just because you don't think that way doesn't mean nobody does.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Just because you don't think that way doesn't mean nobody does.

It's not about thinking a certain way. You can't state your opinion is fact and not back it up.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not about thinking a certain way. You can't state your opinion is fact and not back it up.

My opinions for anti-uniforms are opinions

The fact uniforms can affect a child psychologically is a fact, and then I give examples how constantly throughout this thread

Psychological:
of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person

Whether it's positive or negative, psychology is the whole basis of this

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

My opinions for anti-uniforms are opinions

The fact uniforms can affect a child psychologically is a fact, and then I give examples how constantly throughout this thread

Actual examples of things that have actually happened? If not, you can't state it proves your opinion to be fact.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Psychological:
of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person

Whether it's positive or negative, psychology is the whole basis of this

Dictionary definitions don't change anything.

We all know what psychology is.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Actual examples of things that have actually happened? If not, you can't state it proves your opinion to be fact.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Dictionary definitions don't change anything.

We all know what psychology is.

Refer to: Example A (girl wearing a skirt every day)
Refer to: Example B (kid being restricted creatively)
Refer to: Posts in this thread that have already been made by people saying they weren't/aren't comfortable with these things but may have accepted them with no choice.

And the fact that everyone is in a different psychological state. Some people have anxiety, other conditions, and so on. People CAN get psychologically affected by something as simple as a uniform. It's simple knowledge but whatevs

[JerseyWins]

Also, I know your focus is debating against my own points rather than making your own for the opposing side, which is a fair way to debate don't get me wrong... but it's a bit easy to demand evidence for one side of the argument while not even adding your own points, let alone proof of your own for the other side?

How do I even know that with your points here, you're not "digging" a hole for the opposite side of why we SHOULD have uniforms --- if apparently it's ludicrous that we shouldn't for these reasons.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Also, I know your focus is debating against my own points rather than making your own for the opposing side, which is a fair way to debate don't get me wrong... but it's a bit easy to demand evidence for one side of the argument while not even adding your own points, let alone proof of your own for the other side?

How do I even know that with your points here, you're not "digging" a hole for the opposite side of why we SHOULD have uniforms --- if apparently it's ludicrous that we shouldn't for these reasons.

I've already given my own comment on what I think of uniforms. It's your opinion that we are discussing and you have struggled to expand on.

What's a bit easy? That you have made some statements that don't add up? I'm not using this as an argument FOR uniforms, just pointing out that it doesn't work as an argument not to have them.

You could call for anything to be banned on the "it might trigger someones anxieties".

You want proof of something? Ask me! All you've done is ask me about bullying... a point I haven't made.

But then maybe you'd feel more comfortable wall messaging another forum member about it?

Have a good day.

[AnnieK]

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

Completely agree.