[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Or maybe, I'll put myself out on a limb here...maybe they just, dont like her?

You dont have to be jealous or believe everything in the papers to not think someone is great

What is there not to like though? That's what I've asked numerous times and have never seemed to receive a decent, informed answer. Most of it has just been things relating to stories in the press - thus proving my belief that they've had a very negative impact and have hindered people's opinions of her.

Is it her ambition? What exactly is there not to like? Because from most comments, you would think she's killed someone...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by tate

have to say that i agree that you cannot believe everything read in the tabloids, however there is no smoke without fire and that girl seems to be carrying a lit match and a can of petrol

That's a rubbish way to look at things though, if Katie wasn't there it'd be someone else who would be made into the villain. The tabloids lie a disgusting amount. There's hardly ever an ounce of truth within them.

You can't really say you don't believe in what the tabloids say and the say there's no smoke without fire, that's hypocritical.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

What is there not to like though? That's what I've asked numerous times and have never seemed to receive a decent, informed answer. Most of it has just been things relating to stories in the press - thus proving my belief that they've had a very negative impact and have hindered people's opinions of her.

Is it her ambition? What exactly is there not to like? Because from most comments, you would think she's killed someone...

I just do not like her voice, I dislike all the over the top dramatics, such as collapsing on stage too.

That may not be a 'good enough' reason for you, but thats my opinion.

[Z]

I disliked her based on her audition; she has a very grating personality. That, coupled with the outrage surrounding Cheryl's decision making at judges' houses, has turned people against her. From then on I think it's just been based on tabloid lies and supposition from the general public: Katie was on in the latter half of the first four live shows and kept being saved in the sing off - Treyc v Katie being the icing on the cake. I think people are convinced there's a conspiracy theory involved (and there is a fair amount of stuff to base that view on, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with it) and are determined to dislike her because of it. She's a scapegoat in the same way that Wagner is a scapegoat to stick a middle finger up at the X Factor.

Having said that, I've felt sorry for her ever since the tabloids started a bandwagon of hate against her; she doesn't deserve any of it.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Jack_

For once I agree with you on something - the press and comments across various websites etc she is receiving is bordering on bullying, IMO. Some of the bile spouted has been absolutely disgusting. And I fail to understand what there is to hate about her? She's not murdered anyone, she's not committed any crimes - she's just ambitious. What's to hate about that? Some people are acting like she's a serial killer - it's pathetic.

I agree with Dezzy when it comes to the tabloids though, and I cannot believe masses off people lap it up. It baffles me how many gullible fools there are that will just believe anything they read and then pass on these stories to other fools, in turn making more and more people believe them. I just find it so...odd, how can people be so stupid?

Katie has a decent voice, not the strongest, but a nice tone. More importantly she has stage presence and personality, which as someone else said is more than can be said for a lot of the other contestants. And she also has the right image. She has the 'X Factor' - some people seem to mistake this as being purely a singing competition. It's not.

So I'm not sure what it is - either people don't like ambition, they're jealous, or they're just simply lapping up what they read in the papers. Whatever it is - they need to find something else to do, quite frankly.

Well I've never made a comment re Katie's appearance before, but I wouldn't consider her to be particularly pretty. She's a bit masculine. A cursory glance across to board shows much more personal and derogatory comments about Rebecca's appearance, to be honest - perhaps because she's vocally so strong. As to katie's voice, I think it's very, very weak. It's husky, but so's my nan's. In relation to the tabloids, I don't read them, so I've no idea what they're saying about her, other than that I read on here that she claimed a relationship with Matt that he subsequently denied. That wouldn't impact on my opinion either way. The over-acting and dramatics I find embarrassing. There's nothing at all wrong with ambition, but the sense of entitlement, narcissism and arrogance that both Katie and Cher give off are, frankly, funny, given that they are, for me, the two weakest, most contrived and derivative acts in the competition.
It's hilarious when anyone brands someone a fool or stupid or gullible for not liking someone. It's an opinion. This is an opinion forum.

[tate]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's a rubbish way to look at things though, if Katie wasn't there it'd be someone else who would be made into the villain. The tabloids lie a disgusting amount. There's hardly ever an ounce of truth within them.

You can't really say you don't believe in what the tabloids say and the say there's no smoke without fire, that's hypocritical.

i disagree Dezzy, the tabloids tend to exagerate stories and often take things in a different context however there is almost always a basis to go on so to suggest that every story is untrue is ridiculous, there would be lawsuits galore if that were the case and the press complaints commision crawling all over them

Although you are correct, if it wasnt katie it would be someone else however i still stand by the no smoke no fire comment i made

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by tate

i disagree Dezzy, the tabloids tend to exagerate stories and often take things in a different context however there is almost always a basis to go on so to suggest that every story is untrue is ridiculous, there would be lawsuits galore if that were the case and the press complaints commision crawling all over them

Although you are correct, if it wasnt katie it would be someone else however i still stand by the no smoke no fire comment i made

There wouldn't actually because most tabloids use 'unnamed sources' or 'insiders', if you look at most of the quotes in those articles the language and style is always similar because hardly any 'insiders' are real. It's just a way for the media to print BS as due to the freedom of the press they don't have to give up their sources so it's tricky to prove most of it wrong. They print lies, but they almost always make sure they're covered by this first.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I just do not like her voice, I dislike all the over the top dramatics, such as collapsing on stage too.

That may not be a 'good enough' reason for you, but thats my opinion.

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Well I've never made a comment re Katie's appearance before, but I wouldn't consider her to be particularly pretty. She's a bit masculine. A cursory glance across to board shows much more personal and derogatory comments about Rebecca's appearance, to be honest - perhaps because she's vocally so strong. As to katie's voice, I think it's very, very weak. It's husky, but so's my nan's. In relation to the tabloids, I don't read them, so I've no idea what they're saying about her, other than that I read on here that she claimed a relationship with Matt that he subsequently denied. That wouldn't impact on my opinion either way. The over-acting and dramatics I find embarrassing. There's nothing at all wrong with ambition, but the sense of entitlement, narcissism and arrogance that both Katie and Cher give off are, frankly, funny, given that they are, for me, the two weakest, most contrived and derivative acts in the competition.
It's hilarious when anyone brands someone a fool or stupid or gullible for not liking someone. It's an opinion. This is an opinion forum.

Quoted both of you at the same time regarding the same point - what 'dramatics'? I personally believe that's just her 'quirkyness'.

Especially regarding the 'falling on the floor' incident - has the thought crossed anyones mind, that, you know...she's just...had enough of all of the hate? Like I said, it's bordering on or practically the equivalent of bullying. I expect by that point she thought she was going home [like most people, including myself], knew people weren't going to change their [misguided] opinions of her - and so just thought aloud and said 'sod it'. Seems fair enough to me, afterall, some of the stuff that has been written about her is not only unfair, but it's disgusting.

And I don't think she's 'arrogant' either - why does having self-belief and confidence make someone arrogant? She'd be arrogant if she said 'I'm the best here, I'm the Queen of the world, I am so amazing, everyone should bow down to me' etc etc etc - but she hasn't. So why is she arrogant?

And to pastylimerick - I called the people who lap up the stories in the press 'gullible fools'.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

she has a certain Je ne sais pas

"Quoi"?

[nanaimo]

i haven't read much about Katie in the tabloids, i don't care actually, my judgement on her is purely her behavior and her performances. hope she goes!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

she appeals to a higher intellect it would seem

That would be it

[patsylimerick]

Re the tabloids, Jack, fair enough. But on the dramatics, she was like this from the very first audition, and never more so than when she batting the false icicles in the judge's house and seemed, to me, to be completely over dramatising the situation. To be honest, I didn't so much mind the 'sod it'. It was the first time I kinda smiled in a nice way in response to her. Still think she's a drama queen of the highest order, though. I think her image is way, way too try hard and her voice is very weak.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by nanaimo

i haven't read much about Katie in the tabloids, i don't care actually, my judgement on her is purely her behavior and her performances. hope she goes!

Don't worry, she will go this week

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Quoted both of you at the same time regarding the same point - what 'dramatics'? I personally believe that's just her 'quirkyness'.

Especially regarding the 'falling on the floor' incident - has the thought crossed anyones mind, that, you know...she's just...had enough of all of the hate? Like I said, it's bordering on or practically the equivalent of bullying. I expect by that point she thought she was going home [like most people, including myself], knew people weren't going to change their [misguided] opinions of her - and so just thought aloud and said 'sod it'. Seems fair enough to me, afterall, some of the stuff that has been written about her is not only unfair, but it's disgusting.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

[Benjamin]

Just to throw some meat to the lion cage that is this thread, I love Katie but can see why people dislike her

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Only when I believe they are 'total bollocks', yes...otherwise, no...

Examples of this are people that evidently lap up things they read in the tabloids, or when people supported dull housemates during BB which in turn ruined the show, when they are supposed to be 'fans'. I will happily admit when I think people's opinions are 'total bollocks', infact I would state it in the post - but due to the rules there's no point in me getting an infraction.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

I never said 'by me' - by anyone. An example of an invalid reason would be to the people that didn't like it when she said 'sod it' on Sunday night - at the end of the day she's been on the receiving end of a lot of hatred, so I don't blame her for essentially 'giving up'. I can't see how that is being dramatic at all [she can be a drama queen at times, that much I will admit - but it's part of the reason why I believe she has personality]. A valid opinion is that you don't like her voice - fair enough, that's your opinion - I accept that. I like it. You and others don't. Fair enough. The only point I've disputed is that she has the personality, image and stage presence to back it up.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

No - I accept that people don't like her voice, but I keep reiterating this is not just a singing competition. And she has stage presence and personality. That part [especially stage presence] I don't believe can be an opinion - you either have it or you don't. I can't stand Elvis' music, but there is no denying he had stage presence.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

...or not, because as I said masses of people are lapping up the stories in the press and then letting it hinder their opinion of her. You can deny it all you want, but that's the truth and there is no denying that tabloids have a very large effect on things on TV and in the media [and often a negative impact - like here].

The 'X Factor' is made up of a number of different factors - vocal talent, stage presence, image and personality. She has three of those and a decent vocal talent. That's near enough the 'X Factor'. Whether people 'like' her or not is irrelevant, the public are ****ing clueless when it comes to these shows [especially recently] - eleven series' of Big Brother proved that.

The "X-Factor" is something about a person, that you can't quite put your finger on that makes you really like them and makes them captivating. If Katie was in possession of this she would be getting alot of votes and would not be in the bottom 2 3 times. Do I have to remind you that it is the public who will eventually be buying the music that the winner makes so they're the ones who should be deciding who has the X Factor and who doesn't.

Please don't tell me why I don't like her because you obviously don't have a clue, I can guarantee that it's nothing to do with newspaper articles.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

The "X-Factor" is something about a person, that you can't quite put your finger on that makes you really like them and makes them captivating. If Katie was in possession of this she would be getting alot of votes and would not be in the bottom 2 3 times. Do I have to remind you that it is the public who will eventually be being the music that the winner makes so they're the ones who should be deciding who has the X Factor and who doesn't.

...not necessarily. To a lot of people this is just light-hearted Saturday/Sunday night entertainment, which is the main driving point of the show [and any TV show for that matter] before singing/performing/music even comes into it.

And also - if they will be the ones who are eventually buying the music the winner releases, how come Leon failed? And Joe [although I wouldn't call him a failure just yet, just failing...slightly]? Even Steve? What happened there then? Why did they chose them as winners if they weren't going to suppor them after the show?

Voters and buyers are two very different sets of people - there are crossovers but ultimately not all voters will be buyers, especially when you have to factor in people that download illegally, people that treat the show as light-entertainment, people that don't like the music the winner releases [or mainstream music for that matter], people that forget about the previous winners due to their albums being delayed until the October of the next year, etc etc. Trust me - they don't always know what they're doing.

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Please don't tell me why I don't like her because you obviously don't have a clue, I can guarantee that it's nothing to do with newspaper articles.

Then what is it then?

[Danielle1232]

Katie's Well Good :O





And ahm back,Well i was back yesterday but still likes lol.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

...not necessarily. To a lot of people this is just light-hearted Saturday/Sunday night entertainment, which is the main driving point of the show [and any TV show for that matter] before singing/performing/music even comes into it.

And also - if they will be the ones who are eventually buying the music the winner releases, how come Leon failed? And Joe [although I wouldn't call him a failure just yet, just failing...slightly]? Even Steve? What happened there then? Why did they chose them as winners if they weren't going to suppor them after the show?

Voters and buyers are two very different sets of people - there are crossovers but ultimately not all voters will be buyers, especially when you have to factor in people that download illegally, people that treat the show as light-entertainment, people that don't like the music the winner releases [or mainstream music for that matter], people that forget about the previous winners due to their albums being delayed until the October of the next year, etc etc. Trust me - they don't always know what they're doing.

The examples that you gave were in my opinion, the best of a bad lot most likely. This is a TV Show manufacturing a singer chances are 9/10 of them will fail. They don't make their own music and I would doubt after their year is up get much attention from the record company tbh.

I would hazard a guess here and say that "real" music fans who don't watch X-Factor would never even consider buying an X-Factor winners album anyway.

Then what is it then?

where to start! first and foremost I don't like her voice, she's murdered pretty much every song she's sung so far (the ones she's remembered the words to anyway!)
I dont think she should have gotten through to the live shows over much more talented girls (who remembered the words to their songs)
Her dramatics piss me right off, sitting on the floor and saying "sod it" for example.
And she just generally irritates me, the sound of her voice (speaking) grates on me nearly as much as her singing voice.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.

I genuinely believe that a lot of people are swayed and hindered by the tabloids. It is, afterall, the media/tabloids that escalated 'Sachsgate' completely out of control, making more people complain for no reason - most of whom who hadn't even listened to the audio, just thought they'd jump on the bandwagon and complain because everyone else was. That's just one example of the sort of effect the media/papers have.

I'm not saying everyone is, just a lot. And to those that genuinely aren't swayed by the tabloids, all I'm interested in is to why people don't like her and spout bile [or believe she deserves it] at her all the time. That's all.