[Z]

Asking for a friend (whose name rhymes with Meg)...

If a member of your family had been exceptionally horrible to you for the last 4 months and things had gotten so bad between you that the entire family was a mess and the person who was being horrible to you had ended up isolating themselves from everyone else and was laughably now acting like the victim even though they are the perpetrator, and another member of the family had told them they needed to apologise to you even though you yourself had told the offending family member this yourself on multiple occasions and they were only now, after all this time, going to apparently apologise to you today after they'd been told to, going to apologise to you... would you accept the apology? Even though at this stage you're only anticipating how it might go, you're pretty confident (let's say 99% certain) that it will not be a genuine apology because they haven't acknowledged why they are apologising or what they are sorry for and they're only doing it because they've been told they have to, and you feel like if you accepted the apology, you would be forgiving them when they aren't really sorry so they won't have learned a lesson?

Should ...my friend... >________>... accept the apology (assuming it's coming tonight) even though it's very likely it won't be at all genuine for the sake of acknowledging that even though this person isn't at all sorry, they've done a very out of character thing by even saying the word sorry and you know that despite how unapologetic they are really, it's still a massive step for them to say the word 'sorry' out loud; or should my friend whose name rhymes with "beg" refuse to accept the probably fake apology and continue to wait in vain for a genuine one? My friend whose name rhymes with "leg" knows that if they refuse to accept this one, the offending family member will go in a huff and say "well I tried, what am I supposed to do now?" and likely never offer an olive branch again and because this tension has been going on for so long, it's affected everyone else in the family, so a lot is riding on how this is handled...

[Niamh.]

I think "your friend" should accept the apology but tell the other person that you believe in the phrase "Actions speak louder than words" ....

[Z]

Do you think my friend should just not go home tonight before my friend goes to a pub quiz at 8 just to cut out all of this hassle? I think my friend would prefer that to hearing a lame excuse for an apology but perhaps my friend should just go home and be ambushed as soon as my friend walks in the door and listens to this apology attempt

[Niamh.]

I don't know, does your friend want to mend bridges with this family member or has he washed his hands of him? If your friend is interested in a reconciliation then maybe stick around and hear him out but as I said make it clear that although you're hearing his words and appreciate him being big enough to do that, words are weak

[Ellen]

Assuming your friend knows why the person was been horrible in the first place, accept the apology if it was offered for the sake of family peace this time but i would have very little to do with that person in the future.

[thesheriff443]

if im honest, its sounds childish from both sides, even they way of asking for advise.
tell them they are a selfish bastard, and their sorry means fcuk all!

stand up for yourself, or be a door matt for life.

[Shaun]

I'd wait to hear the apology first and then judge it...

[Braden]

I would accept the apology whether it is genuine or not. In my opinion it would be a huge weight off of everyone's shoulders, and it would make Meg the better person to accept it and not cause any more problems.

If their not sincere with their apology initially, then Meg accepting it anyway will possibly make things a lot easier between family members, and will make the other person feel at ease which would lead to them feeling more earnest towards how they made her upset in the first place.

[Ammi]

..it might not be the apology that Meg wants or feels she deserves but 'sorry' is an 'alien' word to that person so even saying it is a huge step..maybe start with that step, see what the apology is and just see how the conversation goes from there and maybe more steps will be taken bit by bit...for Meg it might seem small and not enough but for the family member giving it, it could be huge and lead them to thinking about things ..?...

[Ammi]

..well really what Shaun said only he didn't use as many words...but yeah, it's a start, it's something..don't refuse it I don't think but see where it leads and how you feel when it's given...

[Z]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know, does your friend want to mend bridges with this family member or has he washed his hands of him? If your friend is interested in a reconciliation then maybe stick around and hear him out but as I said make it clear that although you're hearing his words and appreciate him being big enough to do that, words are weak

My friend would like a full family reconciliation but the simple act of accepting this apology won't achieve that as this person has already burnt their bridges with my friend's brother and his wife and all of their own siblings, accepting this apology would only be a very small piece of a very messy puzzle and would not likely improve any of the other situations and would perhaps put my friend in an awkward position with his two brothers who would likely be disappointed in him for caving to what's almost certainly not a genuine apology.

Originally Posted by Ellen

Assuming your friend knows why the person was been horrible in the first place, accept the apology if it was offered for the sake of family peace this time but i would have very little to do with that person in the future.

My friend doesn't know why specifically this person was horrible to them but my friend can see patterns in this person's behaviour so isn't surprised. The apology is only being offered because someone else has tried to force them into apologising and hasn't come about from a genuine place of feeling remorseful. It wouldn't restore family peace, it would be putting a paper thin layer of superficial "we're a happy family" over a bad, deep wound.

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

if im honest, its sounds childish from both sides, even they way of asking for advise.
tell them they are a selfish bastard, and their sorry means fcuk all!

stand up for yourself, or be a door matt for life.

My friend whose name rhymes with Clegg does not appreciate your tone but my friend was intending on doing exactly what you said until my friend thought about it and wanted advice... good job they have me to ask other people on their behalf eh...

Originally Posted by Shaun

I'd wait to hear the apology first and then judge it...

Of course, but it's very, very likely that it won't be at all genuine - my friend was informed by another family member today that this would be happening today in all likelihood after that family member had a long talk with the problematic family member yesterday; and when those two returned from their talk, a fourth family member had a fight with the problematic family member as soon as they got back, so it's clear that making amends very obviously isn't on the agenda.

Originally Posted by Braden

I would accept the apology whether it is genuine or not. In my opinion it would be a huge weight off of everyone's shoulders, and it would make Meg the better person to accept it and not cause any more problems.

If their not sincere with their apology initially, then Meg accepting it anyway will possibly make things a lot easier between family members, and will make the other person feel at ease which would lead to them feeling more earnest towards how they made her upset in the first place.

Meg thinks that perhaps it wouldn't be a weight off anyone's shoulders apart from the problematic family member, like it would alleviate their guilt but wouldn't fix anything, and it would maybe give the problematic family member's partner a bit of a reprieve for a little while, but it wouldn't solve anything for the three kids who all deserve to be treated with as much respect as anyone else and perhaps Meg's two siblings would be angry with Meg if Meg accepted the apology and pretended everything was fine for the next 3 weeks before Meg skips town.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it might not be the apology that Meg wants or feels she deserves but 'sorry' is an 'alien' word to that person so even saying it is a huge step..maybe start with that step, see what the apology is and just see how the conversation goes from there and maybe more steps will be taken bit by bit...for Meg it might seem small and not enough but for the family member giving it, it could be huge and lead them to thinking about things ..?...

Yes, my friend Meg agrees with you, this person has never said sorry for anything in their life so if they said it at all it would be a gigantic step for them even though it's extremely likely they won't mean it. Meg doesn't think she's ever heard the word "sorry" come out of this person's mouth, ever.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..well really what Shaun said only he didn't use as many words...but yeah, it's a start, it's something..don't refuse it I don't think but see where it leads and how you feel when it's given...

Meg will just have to wait and see what is said, you're right.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Z

My friend would like a full family reconciliation but the simple act of accepting this apology won't achieve that as this person has already burnt their bridges with my friend's brother and his wife and all of their own siblings, accepting this apology would only be a very small piece of a very messy puzzle and would not likely improve any of the other situations and would perhaps put my friend in an awkward position with his two brothers who would likely be disappointed in him for caving to what's almost certainly not a genuine apology.



.

At the end of the day it's "your friends" life and he can't not do things just because other people might be disappointed, he has to make these decisions by himself

[Z]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

At the end of the day it's "your friends" life and he can't not do things just because other people might be disappointed, he has to make these decisions by himself

My friend would not accept a fake apology off anyone else and my friend doesn't think he should accept a fake apology just because it's a parent giving it but my friend is very aware of how likely it is that his other parent will turn on him if he doesn't accept that apology because no matter how awful things have been, his parents got married for a reason and my friend has come to accept that he will be pushed in front of the bus instead of the marriage because my friend's seen it happen to his older brother already so it's not like my friend is being irrational or paranoid. My friend's choice, ultimately, is to accept a fake apology and for no one to learn a lesson and for everything to be swept under the carpet until the next time it boils up again (my friend would give it less than a year tops); or decline the apology and no longer have parents, essentially. The latter is the easier option even if it's not easy at all but it's obviously not a light decision to take.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Z

My friend would not accept a fake apology off anyone else and my friend doesn't think he should accept a fake apology just because it's a parent giving it but my friend is very aware of how likely it is that his other parent will turn on him if he doesn't accept that apology because no matter how awful things have been, his parents got married for a reason and my friend has come to accept that he will be pushed in front of the bus instead of the marriage because my friend's seen it happen to his older brother already so it's not like my friend is being irrational or paranoid. My friend's choice, ultimately, is to accept a fake apology and for no one to learn a lesson and for everything to be swept under the carpet until the next time it boils up again (my friend would give it less than a year tops); or decline the apology and no longer have parents, essentially. The latter is the easier option even if it's not easy at all but it's obviously not a light decision to take.

Oh wow, it's one of your (friends) parents? That's quite bad isn't it. hhmmmm, It's sad that your friends other parent would not back you or atleast remain neutral, I say that as a mother and a daughter myself. If it were me, I wouldn't make up with my father just so my mother didn't fall out with me, I wouldn't be being true to myself

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Z

Meg thinks that perhaps it wouldn't be a weight off anyone's shoulders apart from the problematic family member, like it would alleviate their guilt but wouldn't fix anything, and it would maybe give the problematic family member's partner a bit of a reprieve for a little while, but it wouldn't solve anything for the three kids who all deserve to be treated with as much respect as anyone else and perhaps Meg's two siblings would be angry with Meg if Meg accepted the apology and pretended everything was fine for the next 3 weeks before Meg skips town.

It seems like she's in a bit of a 'Catch 22' situation. I think the best thing to do in that case is for her to go with what her gut is telling her to do. If the apology doesn't feel sincere then Meg should try talking as candidly yet calmly as she can to see if anything can be resolved, but if nothing works out for her in that regard she should rely on the support from her two siblings who seem to be on her side.

[Ammi]

...even after the walk and the ‘fight’ etc, you know this person is being forced to look at themselves/at their flaws and these are not something they consciously acknowledge in themselves and this could be causing pain and confusion for them ..maybe they wouldn’t ever admit that openly or aren’t ready to atm but those feelings and emotions could be there and after the walk, could have projected outwardly as anger, especially if they had felt even by ‘a look’ or whatever, any more disapproval or judgement...I know it’s not right to react like that but it could actually mean that ‘things are getting through/being faced internally’..


..and for the siblings..Meg can be there for them emotionally to talk to anytime and try to help but she’s got to go and live her life so at some point, they too will have to ‘fight for themselves’...Meg can support them with that and I know she will but she can’t be there for them all the time, that wouldn’t be possible and it would be destructive to her and then what help would she be to them anyway if she didn’t self-preserve as well to have the emotional ‘strength’ to help them...


..and yeah, sorry means nothing, it’s just a word and it has to be shown and felt by the person who is being apologised to...but it’s never been said to anyone from this person whether genuinely meant or not..and Meg has extracted that word out of this person’s mouth...something no one else has been able to do...all she can do is hear it and see if it leads anywhere now...for her, for her siblings and for the person saying it and if not..?...well, Meg can decide in time what she will do then...but yeah what Shaun said....I quite like this Meg actually, do you think she would join the forum..?...

[Z]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh wow, it's one of your (friends) parents? That's quite bad isn't it. hhmmmm, It's sad that your friends other parent would not back you or atleast remain neutral, I say that as a mother and a daughter myself. If it were me, I wouldn't make up with my father just so my mother didn't fall out with me, I wouldn't be being true to myself

It's probably worse that it's my (friend's) mother who is the problem here. The father often believes he is being the middleman negotiating "peace" between the mother and her children when in reality he's just being played and ends up appearing to be two faced to both the mother and the children because he says one thing when he really thinks another and tells different people different things to try and keep them happy. Despite the mother treating the father horribly, he will always choose her over his children at the end of the day because his children won't bend to his will; because "his will" is really just what she wants, he just thinks he's doing the right thing by acting in her best interests when really he's just alienating his children. They wrote their eldest son out of their will and tried to get the middle child and the youngest child to never speak to him again and it sorted of worked for a good year and a half until the middle child, my friend, said enough is enough and reached out to the older brother which is possibly why the mother has lashed out at the middle child. It's all a big mess. My poor friend. So if my friend makes up with, or pretends to make up with, the mother; my friend's older brother and younger brother would be very disappointed in him to say the least because that would be a huge betrayal, and my friend doesn't even want to make up with the mother because she's been completely awful and isn't really sorry for anything.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Z

It's probably worse that it's my (friend's) mother who is the problem here. The father often believes he is being the middleman negotiating "peace" between the mother and her children when in reality he's just being played and ends up appearing to be two faced to both the mother and the children because he says one thing when he really thinks another and tells different people different things to try and keep them happy. Despite the mother treating the father horribly, he will always choose her over his children at the end of the day because his children won't bend to his will; because "his will" is really just what she wants, he just thinks he's doing the right thing by acting in her best interests when really he's just alienating his children. They wrote their eldest son out of their will and tried to get the middle child and the youngest child to never speak to him again and it sorted of worked for a good year and a half until the middle child, my friend, said enough is enough and reached out to the older brother which is possibly why the mother has lashed out at the middle child. It's all a big mess. My poor friend. So if my friend makes up with, or pretends to make up with, the mother; my friend's older brother and younger brother would be very disappointed in him to say the least because that would be a huge betrayal, and my friend doesn't even want to make up with the mother because she's been completely awful and isn't really sorry for anything.

Oh God, that sounds like an awful mess. I don't even want to say exactly what's on my mind because I don't want to insult your (friends) family which is always a bad thing to do

I suppose your friend will just have to play it by ear, I guess the "I'm sorry" bit will be less important then listening to her reasons for being sorry? (If she offers those which she should if she's being genuine)

[Jessica.]

I wouldn't accept the apology tbh, my mother makes my life hell and I am making long term plans which cut her out completely, I obviously love her because she is my mother but she honestly makes life unbearable. She is so detached and has been for my whole life but she thinks I should treat her like worlds greatest mother, that's never going to happen. I got back on Sunday morning after being away for three weeks and being extremely ill and hospitalised in the last week, the only thing she has asked me since then is if I have brought back any chocolate.

Just because someone has been put in the role of "Mother" for your whole life, you shouldn't have to think of it as a boundary. When a mother treats one of her offspring like crap it's just so awkward for everyone involved, if the child tries to stand up for themselves then it's seen as "sooo wrong" because she "gave birth to you". She may have given birth to them but that doesn't excuse her behaviour imo.

Sorry for the messy post, I am going through a lot of stuff at the moment so I can't really focus, basically just tell your friend to go with his heart and do what he knows is the right thing, rather than what is the easiest thing for everyone.

[Ninastar]

Sounds just like my mum. Never said sorry in her life.

I don't know what I'd do tbh. If its really obvious that this person has just said the word, 'sorry' I wouldn't accept it. If theres a little bit of meaning behind it, I would...

sorry if thats not much help!

[Ammi]

..I think each sibling is going to have to find their own way in this and do what they feel id right because it is a parent...it’s really just what everyone is prepared to ‘sacrifice’ for a certain status quo or to keep any relationship with that person..if your friend bends too much then she can lose who she is and that would always be destructive to her life and probably in her own future relationships...it’s up to her dad, how much he will be prepared to ‘lose’ for the woman he loves and feels a loyalty to...it’s up to her siblings to find their way with this with Meg’s support and decide what relationship they will have with their mother..Meg can’t take on their disappointment because this isn’t her responsibility to ‘fix’ this for them or even make better for them, it’s too complicated...sadly parents are not always a positive thing in their children’s lives and can be the complete opposite ..but when that child becomes an adult they have choices...most of us are ‘programmed’ to love our parents on some level but we don’t have to like them and we don’t have to accept who they are if it is destructive to our lives ....Meg doesn’t need to make any changes in who she is, she’s already considerate and caring of people in her life but if Meg’s mum wants to keep Meg in her life then she has to address this and what she needs to do to keep her daughter aa part of her life...Meg can never make her do that no matter how much she tries and it will always just cause her so much emotional anxiety and pain so maybe she will have to just ‘walk away’. Leave it open for her mum to come to her if she has anything to say and basically put the responsibility back where it needs to be...with her mum....if her mum chooses to lose her children then so be it, no one was ever going to change that choice anyway, it was always going to happen....


..with tonight...let Meg listen to the apology and that's the only thing which is in her 'control'...then it's down to her mum to make that apology 'felt' by Meg...if it's not then she needs to make her own decisions and let her siblings and her dad make theirs....

[lily.]

Ok, I'm going to assume that Meg's dad has cajoled Meg's mum into apologising (or vice versa) ...

It also seems to me like Meg's dad feels like he has worked hard to persuade the mum to apologise and doesn't want all that hard work to have been for nothing, so is now making Meg feel like she has to accept this apology.

I can understand that Meg wants to just say 'eff it all' and not accept the apology and turn her back on the whole situation. It seems like Meg has been going through a lot in this situation.

The question is... Can Meg live with that decision? Ultimately this is not about who thinks what, or how the siblings react or how the parents react.. this is more about how Meg feels about her relationship with the parents now. Meg obviously sees the parents as a whole, therefore must accept that failure to make amends with one means losing the relationship with the other. Can Meg accept that? Is Meg able to move on with her life knowing that she no longer has any kind of relationship with her parents?

If not, then Meg has to bite the bullet and accept the apology, and continue down the slippery slope of unpredictability with this relationship.

However, if Meg feels like the time has come to say 'enough is enough'.. then Meg must stand her ground, calmly. She must explain to the parent that while she appreciates the effort taken to make the apology, she feels that it is not sincere, and that since the parent had to be persuaded to make the apology, it doesn't really carry any weight.

Also, there's a slight middle ground where Meg could say that she accepts the apology on the condition that the behaviour is changed and there is not a continuation of the pattern of behaviour that came before it.

Just my tuppence worth..



Final note: Meg should try hard to remain calm. Bad decisions are often made and regrettable things said when a person is angry.

[Iceman]

[Z]

Meg would rather put an end to all the suffering now and walk away than continue to be trapped in it through a combination of emotional blackmail, physical threats and a web of lies that are designed to isolate and belittle. Meg would like to thank everyone for their help x

[Braden]

Tell her that she is welcome and to stay as strong as she possibly can