[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think it should be totally up to the cake shop what content they will print on their cakes.If they find something offensive then they should have the right to decline to make that cake.Iirc the gay men had been customers in the past of that shop and the owner had no problem taking their business before,So they had nothing against these people,Just the content which they had been told to put on their cake.
If it is the company's policy not to make cakes with offensive slogans on and this cake WAS offensive to them then they should be free to refuse to make a cake with it on.

What if a black woman came in to order a cake for her wedding to a white man and the owner thought that interracial relationships were wrong, do you think he should have the right to refuse her on those grounds?

[Northern Monkey]

What if i went into a cake shop and asked them to make a cake with say 'cake shop owners are *****'
I could rightfully be refused business because it is up to that business as to what cakes they are willing to make.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

What if i went into a cake shop and asked them to make a cake with say 'cake shop owners are *****'
I could rightfully be refused business because it is up to that business as to what cakes they are willing to make.

You didn't answer my question eyeball

To answer yours though, it'd be a bit of a weird thing to do and could technically be described as inciting hatred towards cake shop owners

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What if a black woman came in to order a cake for her wedding to a white man and the owner thought that interracial relationships were wrong, do you think he should have the right to refuse her on those grounds?

I think the cake shop should have total artistic authority over their own product.I don't think it would be right because it is not what i believe but you can't force the cake shop makers to make a cake which they don't wish to.The content that they offer should be totally up to the cake makers themselves then it is up to the customer to either use that shop or find one that better suits their needs.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You didn't answer my question eyeball

To answer yours though, it'd be a bit of a weird thing to do and could technically be described as inciting hatred towards cake shop owners

Sorry i was adding to my previous post when yours appeared.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think the cake shop should have total artistic authority over their own product.I don't think it would be right because it is not what i believe but you can't force the cake shop makers to make a cake which they don't wish to.The content that they offer should be totally up to the cake makers themselves then it is up to the customer to either use that shop or find one that better suits their needs.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

[Kizzy]

I don't feel they're fair examples either, you can't really compare anything other than homosexuals in reference to religious observance, except taxmen :/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't feel they're fair examples either, you can't really compare anything other than homosexuals in reference to religious observance, except taxmen :/

I disagree with that, discrimination is discrimination, why should homosexuals be the only "fair game" in discrimination laws?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

I would'nt compare this to a creche or something of that nature.
This is a product that is being offered.You would'nt dictate to a clothes company what they have to make and offer for sale,That is up to the designers to make and offer and hope that their product sells.If people don't like that product then they find a brand that they prefer.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't feel they're fair examples either, you can't really compare anything other than homosexuals in reference to religious observance, except taxmen :/

Move over LT - They're's a new comic talent in town.

[Northern Monkey]

The cake shop offer a range of goods,It is up to them what is included in that range.Imo.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I would'nt compare this to a creche or something of that nature.
This is a product that is being offered.You would'nt dictate to a clothes company what they have to make and offer for sale,That is up to the designers to make and offer and hope that their product sells.If people don't like that product then they find a brand that they prefer.

They offer and make wedding cakes though

[Livia]

Businesses have the right to refuse service, they don't even have to have a sign up saying that they reserve the right to refuse, but their refusal can be based only on negative or threatening behaviour and not on grounds of race, sexual orientation etc.. Of course, I'm not sure if that's the same in Ireland.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Businesses have the right to refuse service, they don't even have to have a sign up saying that they reserve the right to refuse, but their refusal can be based only on negative or threatening behaviour and not on grounds of race, sexual orientation etc.. Of course, I'm not sure if that's the same in Ireland.

Yes it is as far as I know

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

This is a seriously valid point Niamh, and one which I pondered. I wouldn't go to any cake shop which I knew did not genuinely want to serve me and were being made to because of the law, because - as you say - I just would not trust them because of what they might do to my cake because of possible resentment.

[LeatherTrumpet]

The best thing to do is use a little nowse and if you are a "christian" who "thinks" that the bible hates on gays and for some reason want also to hate on them then when a gay couple come in and request a cake that says "we love gay marriage" then tell them a pork pie and say you cant make it as you have ran out of icing or your dog died or you are not doing cakes this week or say that the baker may take longer as he has syphilis and its contagious

that way they go off to find another baker and the hoo ha is avoided

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is a seriously valid point Niamh, and one which I pondered. I wouldn't go to any cake shop which I knew did not genuinely want to serve me and were being made to because of the law, because - as you say - I just would not trust them because of what they might do to my cake because of possible resentment.

yeah exactly

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The best thing to do is use a little nowse and if you are a "christian" who "thinks" that the bible hates on gays and for some reason want also to hate on them then when a gay couple come in and request a cake that says "we love gay marriage" then tell them a pork pie and say you cant make it as you have ran out of icing or your dog died or you are not doing cakes this week or say that the baker may take longer as he has syphilis and its contagious

that way they go off to find another baker and the hoo ha is avoided

Exactly LT - It works BOTH ways though and the Gay couple should just take their precious business elsewhere. This whole B.S. has been commandeered by anti-Farage elements to make political capital out of.

Blown up out of all proportion.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They offer and make wedding cakes though

They don't offer and make cakes which say 'support gay marriage' though.
Find another cake shop.Imo.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

What if i went into a cake shop and asked them to make a cake with say 'cake shop owners are *****'
I could rightfully be refused business because it is up to that business as to what cakes they are willing to make.

That however would be seen as being offensive to those in the cake making industry, which would possibly even come under being an offence.

What say if a strong Labour couple ran a cake making business but got a request to make a cake for a Conservatives function.
That could aslo be against their views but it would still be wrong to refuse to do so as a business.

If someone is making cakes privately from their own home, then they can be more selective but as to general businesses,customers who are doing nothing illegal, should have the right to buy from all public outlets.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

They don't offer and make cakes which say 'support gay marriage' though.
Find another cake shop.Imo.

What if it was just their wedding cake, a normal wedding cake like any straight couples except it was for a gay couple?

[LeatherTrumpet]

[LeatherTrumpet]

The first chap is the baker and the next is the "gay"

They would make a nice couple

The case was adjourned on March 30 with district judge Isobel Brownlie reserving her judgement. She told Belfast County Court she would reserve her judgement so that "full consideration" could be given to the evidence, which was presented over three days.

Judge Brownlie said: "It is not a straightforward area of the law.

"Obviously this is a case in which I propose to reserve my judgement."

It is understood the verdict in the landmark case will be heard on Thursday May 7.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31182488.html

[Kizzy]

A good day to bury bad news... or the right to religious observance.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I disagree with that, discrimination is discrimination, why should homosexuals be the only "fair game" in discrimination laws?

Because they are the only sub group referred to in scripture, that's why Christians feel justified discriminating against them.