Jeremy Corbyn the Labour Leader: Some Still Against him : a 2nd Jeremy Win 24/9/16

[arista]

JC now Live in UK's Parliament


BBC2HD
SkyNewsHD


Watch live on this in HD
http://news.sky.com/watch-live

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/16/418579/default/v1/cegrab-20150916-120307-0-1-736x414.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

"I thought this was the new question time" says Dave as he is heckled by the lefties
:joker:

[arista]

"I thought this was the new question time" says Dave as he is heckled by the lefties
:joker:

Yes its a Good Start JC

[Crimson Dynamo]

he did ok

much more toned down

[arista]

he did ok

much more toned down



Yes better than Milibander

[joeysteele]

This was much better as to PMQs however I agree he will have to go for the follow up to the answers more in the future from David Cameron.
Fair play to David Cameron too, this was better from him too.

[arista]

This was much better as to PMQs however I agree he will have to go for the follow up to the answers more in the future from David Cameron.
Fair play to David Cameron too, this was better from him too.


Yes a Great Start

[DemolitionRed]

but proportions of women in a cabinet mean **** all. This is why i could never ever vote for labour. The most capable person should be the one chosen to do the job, and if that means its 30 women or 30 men, then so be it

Don't worry because all the top jobs (those shadowing the "great offices of state") have gone to men!

[the truth]

he did a sound job today ...though pmqs will always be a pretty shallow affair drowned by clichés talking points and idiots making animal noises

[JoshBB]

he did a sound job today ...though pmqs will always be a pretty shallow affair drowned by clichés talking points and idiots making animal noises

And the occasional "yeah yeah.. yeah yeah yeah YEAH YEAH YEAH"

[arista]

Ch4HD News has a Full Interview with Jeremy.

Jon Snow.

after the headlines

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/16/418679/default/v3/i-1-563x750.jpg

[MTVN]

I agree with comments I've heard that that it was like a radio phone in. It was bread and butter for Cameron who can bat away questions like that all day and was never put under pressure (Angus Robertson did a better job with his two questions than Corbyn did). Where was all the impassioned rejection of Tory dogma that we were supposed to expect, I thought Corbyn was going to herald the return of towering ideological battles and powerful debates? This was dull, dull, dull. The most passionate moment came not from Corbyn but from Nigel Dodds of the DUP in rallying the House in condemnation of the shadow chancellor's support of the IRA, the only time it felt like the emotions of the sleepy MPs in the chamber were really stirred.

[jackc1806]

it flopped hard

[the truth]

hmmmmmm im not sure how long this moral high ground . sanctimoniousness can last from corbyn....yes in theory its all pretty righteous so far...people shouldn't be poor or homeless or living out of food banks....but how do we get there mr corbyn?
IF we were to follow the policies of the communists wed end up like cuba or Russia?
ok so is corbyn smart enough to build a middle ground Britain
has he truly remembered the strengths and weakness of the far left...of socialism of state controlled industries? ive supported his drive to either renationalize the energy companies or at the leats massively reregulate them. im also in agreement the free market and the banking sector needs enormous regulation too
but when corbyn starts suggesting government is the solution, the European union is the solution, then he loses me
the EU is a disaster in many ways....surely we can agree on actions on climate change without having to tie ourselves into a 587 page constitution? also is he really going to overhaul the nhs , is he with the unions in his pocket ever going to really criticize the many disastrous parts of the nhs?
its bordering on preachy at the moment....being anti toff is one thing, being pro feeding the homeless is fine...but can thisman really rebuild our economy to take care of everyone whilst keeping us prosperous? I hope so , but im not yet convinced

[empire]

atleast new labour have their real citizen smith, with a beard.

[DemolitionRed]

"Power to the people" :laugh:

Corbyn is the least we should expect from our labour leader. Its time someone attempted to bring our abused economy to its rightful owners... the general public. I'm sick to the back teeth of getting swindled by the Tory's and I don't believe 'Third Style Labour' can do any better than the Tory party. Do we carry on getting brainwashed by Tory press? The greed apologists like the Daily Fail have been chipping away at our sense of reality for far too long.

This isn't so much about voting for Corbyn's politics, its about voting for change, voting to tell politicians to dare to be radical in their thoughts and presentations in their manifestos.

What do I want? Dramatic change. When do I want it? Now :cheer2:

[DemolitionRed]

hmmmmmm im not sure how long this moral high ground . sanctimoniousness can last from corbyn....yes in theory its all pretty righteous so far...people shouldn't be poor or homeless or living out of food banks....but how do we get there mr corbyn?
IF we were to follow the policies of the communists wed end up like cuba or Russia?
ok so is corbyn smart enough to build a middle ground Britain
has he truly remembered the strengths and weakness of the far left...of socialism of state controlled industries? ive supported his drive to either renationalize the energy companies or at the leats massively reregulate them. im also in agreement the free market and the banking sector needs enormous regulation too
but when corbyn starts suggesting government is the solution, the European union is the solution, then he loses me
the EU is a disaster in many ways....surely we can agree on actions on climate change without having to tie ourselves into a 587 page constitution? also is he really going to overhaul the nhs , is he with the unions in his pocket ever going to really criticize the many disastrous parts of the nhs?
its bordering on preachy at the moment....being anti toff is one thing, being pro feeding the homeless is fine...but can thisman really rebuild our economy to take care of everyone whilst keeping us prosperous? I hope so , but im not yet convinced

Here is a link http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism so that you can understand what democratic socialism is. This is not about state run industry and these policies bare no relationship to Lenin or Castro style socialism.

To have a successful democracy we need to incorporate social policies.

[arista]

I agree with comments I've heard that that it was like a radio phone in. It was bread and butter for Cameron who can bat away questions like that all day and was never put under pressure (Angus Robertson did a better job with his two questions than Corbyn did). Where was all the impassioned rejection of Tory dogma that we were supposed to expect, I thought Corbyn was going to herald the return of towering ideological battles and powerful debates? This was dull, dull, dull. The most passionate moment came not from Corbyn but from Nigel Dodds of the DUP in rallying the House in condemnation of the shadow chancellor's support of the IRA, the only time it felt like the emotions of the sleepy MPs in the chamber were really stirred.



no that was years ago

[Toy Soldier]

"Power to the people" [emoji23]

Corbyn is the least we should expect from our labour leader. Its time someone attempted to bring our abused economy to its rightful owners... the general public. I'm sick to the back teeth of getting swindled by the Tory's and I don't believe 'Third Style Labour' can do any better than the Tory party. Do we carry on getting brainwashed by Tory press? The greed apologists like the Daily Fail have been chipping away at our sense of reality for far too long.

This isn't so much about voting for Corbyn's politics, its about voting for change, voting to tell politicians to dare to be radical in their thoughts and presentations in their manifestos.

What do I want? Dramatic change. When do I want it? Now :cheer2:
Sadly, going back to the referendum (again...), the no campaigns had a heavy focus on "don't take risks, keep things as they are" and that resonated well with voters. People are scared of change and will just vote for the status quo, even if the status quo is ****.

[DemolitionRed]

Sadly, going back to the referendum (again...), the no campaigns had a heavy focus on "don't take risks, keep things as they are" and that resonated well with voters. People are scared of change and will just vote for the status quo, even if the status quo is ****.

Perhaps so but for the next 4+ years Cameron is going to have a fire cracker up his arse and we the people, have years to learn and thoroughly understand what Corbyn is about.

Personally I doubted Corbyn would become the new leader of the labour party and personally I doubt Corbyn will become our next PM. I was wrong the first time; perhaps I'll be wrong a second time. I'm not going to say, "I hope so" because just like the rest of his present supporters, I want to see how he pans out first.

[the truth]

Perhaps so but for the next 4+ years Cameron is going to have a fire cracker up his arse and we the people, have years to learn and thoroughly understand what Corbyn is about.

Personally I doubted Corbyn would become the new leader of the labour party and personally I doubt Corbyn will become our next PM. I was wrong the first time; perhaps I'll be wrong a second time. I'm not going to say, "I hope so" because just like the rest of his present supporters, I want to see how he pans out first.

why does neither party EVER get to grips with the phenomenal waste mismanagement inefficiency corruption mis-communication within each and every department in each and every council which are all entirely unfit for purpose? and why is it never ever ever discussed by the government and the politicial leaders?

[empire]

new labour are bunch of anti english and anti working class party, that love cheap workers to fill their glasses of fine wine, their enforced multiculturalist plan, has broken are society, corbyn is very anti patriotic, and people who are under paid are not going to be so naive into voting a party with a leader who is pro isis, pro mass migration, one new labour mp, said that britain should take in so many refugees, until we break, now for the british people, how can locals here find a home or seek medical care, and they have payed their way for public services, and are push back into waiting lists, because refugees got first place and paid nothing, do you vote for a party to rip you off,

[DemolitionRed]

new labour are bunch of anti english and anti working class party, that love cheap workers to fill their glasses of fine wine, their enforced multiculturalist plan, has broken are society, corbyn is very anti patriotic, and people who are under paid are not going to be so naive into voting a party with a leader who is pro isis, pro mass migration, one new labour mp, said that britain should take in so many refugees, until we break, now for the british people, how can locals here find a home or seek medical care, and they have payed their way for public services, and are push back into waiting lists, because refugees got first place and paid nothing, do you vote for a party to rip you off,

Of course he's a patriot, he's just not the same sort of patriot as Blair, who led our country into an illegal war. Corbyn has been noted for saying (prior to the last election) that if Labour got in, he would be the first to stand up and publicly apologise to us for Blair leading his country into a catastrophic war.

We could say Cameron isn't patriotic because he continually deceives and misguides the British people.

As for being 'pro ISIS', anyone who has been seriously following his campaign will remember his words to Cameron, "We need a political solution without compromise to ISIS but against ISIS. We need to choke off supplies that help fund their armies and work with neighbouring states in the region to come to a common solution." That is not being pro ISIS but about trying to find a peaceful solution without putting our own armed forces at risk.

For too many years we've had a Tory party that isn't conservative and a Labour Party that isn't socialist.

[DemolitionRed]

why does neither party EVER get to grips with the phenomenal waste mismanagement inefficiency corruption mis-communication within each and every department in each and every council which are all entirely unfit for purpose? and why is it never ever ever discussed by the government and the politicial leaders?

When you say 'neither party', are you referring to Labour and Tory?

[kirklancaster]

"Power to the people" :laugh:

Corbyn is the least we should expect from our labour leader. Its time someone attempted to bring our abused economy to its rightful owners... the general public. I'm sick to the back teeth of getting swindled by the Tory's and I don't believe 'Third Style Labour' can do any better than the Tory party. Do we carry on getting brainwashed by Tory press? The greed apologists like the Daily Fail have been chipping away at our sense of reality for far too long.

This isn't so much about voting for Corbyn's politics, its about voting for change, voting to tell politicians to dare to be radical in their thoughts and presentations in their manifestos.

What do I want? Dramatic change. When do I want it? Now :cheer2:

Radical change for change's sake with no care of policies Red? Wasn't this the prevaling mindset of 44% of German voters back on the 5th of March 1933?

[Kizzy]

How unpatriotic is bombing a country we are not at war with... What if another leader were to bomb us for the sake of his/her country?

[Kizzy]

Radical change for change's sake with no care of policies Red? Wasn't this the prevaling mindset of 44% of German voters back on the 5th of March 1933?

One fundamental difference being Corbyns are all against a fascist regime...

[arista]

At last JC will be Live on Marr
next Sunday

[arista]

At last JC will be Live on Marr
next Sunday


And Today
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/19/419340/default/v1/200915-ios-front-1-1-563x750.jpg

[arista]

Speaking Live Now
He is at the Labour Conference
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/18/419191/default/v2/rts177t-1-736x414.jpg


Only on SkyNewsHD
who are getting Skype Live feed


Why is BBCNewsHD
ignoring this?

[empire]

the fact that corbyn is a euro skeptic, for years, now he says that he supports uk membership in the eu, I suspect that he is not in control of the party, and their are a circle of people in new labour, who are calling the shots, and it is the blairism people and the europhiles who control him and the party, if he tried to purge the party of them, they will backstab him the same way that thatcher's party backstabbed her,

[arista]

Empire
its very clear what he wants
"Democracy" in his party
Not like before.


Marr BBC1 and BBC1HD 9AM today

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/26/420910/default/v1/observernew-1-563x750.jpg

[Mystic Mock]

Radical change for change's sake with no care of policies Red? Wasn't this the prevaling mindset of 44% of German voters back on the 5th of March 1933?

Corbyn most likely will not turn out like Hitler.:laugh:

I'm not sure if he'll bring as much change as his making out though, I was more confident with Ed Milliband because despite being a goofball he actually did look like that he stood for what he believed in which this country needs someone like that.

[arista]

Not so sure it will be Live

[MTVN]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP3B1XoW8AAXI7v.png

[Mystic Mock]

The media attacking the left leaning party again I see.:rolleyes:

But seriously one leader has sex with a dead Pig, and the other leader doesn't pursue paedophile cases within his party, and doesn't keep an eye on his own team during the street Riots.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP3B1XoW8AAXI7v.png


Yes the Paper against him

[arista]

Long Interview
with JC on Marr

[MTVN]

Lots of question dodging and non-answers. Just another politician basically.

[Livia]

Lots of question dodging and non-answers. Just another politician basically.

Basically.

[joeysteele]

I was impressed actually, I think he made very strong points on a range of issues when he was allowed to that is.
I am also looking forward to the conference week too, it will be nice to hopefully find a party really debating issues than all the stage managed tripe we have suffered for the last few years.

Of course he is a politician, I think to be fair to him, he didn't dodge awkward questions like many do and he said clearly where he stood on issues but that there will be a debate in the party on how things progress as to policies.

[Livia]

Joey, how do you feel about Corbyn's proposal to take us out of NATO?

[joeysteele]

Joey, how do you feel about Corbyn's proposal to take us out of NATO?

He has never to be fair said that really as a policy, he doesn't like the idea of NATO extending into the Eastern states so his thinking is we could look at leaving it.

He can have and is entitled to have his view just as you, I and others have theirs, he is the one who will need to persuade the 'party' to leave NATO, if he holds that view too strongly to be persuaded otherwise.

If he fails to get that as a policy and I am sure he will fail if he went for it,( I support remaining a NATO member), then he will need to and will do so, accept that decision of the party.
That is following a democratic process.

I for instance am now against renewing trident, I would support that one now.
However as with him on NATO, if the party support the renewal of Trident, then as a democrat I will accept that.

I have no problem with what his thinking is as to him personally, as long as he accepts the democratic process and decisions as to policy hammered out in open or otherwise debate and discussion.

Few leaders or Prime Ministers, get all they want as policy as leaders and Prime Ministers anyway.
So the short answer to your question is I have no concerns on the issue because I don't see it happening even if he were PM.
I would tell him I disagreed with leaving NATO, if asked, I certainly would not hold a view against anyone that wasn't a policy and likely never would be policy either.

[Livia]

He has never to be fair said that really as a policy, he doesn't like the idea of NATO extending into the Eastern states so his thinking is we could look at leaving it.

He can have and is entitled to have his view just as you, I and others have theirs, he is the one who will need to persuade the 'party' to leave NATO, if he holds that view too strongly to be persuaded otherwise.

If he fails to get that as a policy and I am sure he will fail if he went for it,( I support remaining a NATO member), then he will need to and will do so, accept that decision of the party.
That is following a democratic process.

I for instance am now against renewing trident, I would support that one now.
However as with him on NATO, if the party support the renewal of Trident, then as a democrat I will accept that.

I have no problem with what his thinking is as to him personally, as long as he accepts the democratic process and decisions as to policy hammered out in open or otherwise debate and discussion.

Few leaders or Prime Ministers, get all they want as policy as leaders and Prime Ministers anyway.
So the sort answer to your question is I have no concerns on the issue because I don't see it happening even if he were PM.
I would tell him I disagreed with leaving NATO, if asked, I certainly would not hold a view against anyone that wasn't a policy and likely never would be policy either.

Thank you, joey. Very concise and clear.

[arista]

Labour will not Debate Trident
at the conference,
saved by the Unions

http://news.sky.com/story/1559825/labour-will-not-debate-trident-after-union-blow

[DemolitionRed]

He has never to be fair said that really as a policy, he doesn't like the idea of NATO extending into the Eastern states so his thinking is we could look at leaving it.

He can have and is entitled to have his view just as you, I and others have theirs, he is the one who will need to persuade the 'party' to leave NATO, if he holds that view too strongly to be persuaded otherwise.

If he fails to get that as a policy and I am sure he will fail if he went for it,( I support remaining a NATO member), then he will need to and will do so, accept that decision of the party.
That is following a democratic process.

I for instance am now against renewing trident, I would support that one now.
However as with him on NATO, if the party support the renewal of Trident, then as a democrat I will accept that.

I have no problem with what his thinking is as to him personally, as long as he accepts the democratic process and decisions as to policy hammered out in open or otherwise debate and discussion.

Few leaders or Prime Ministers, get all they want as policy as leaders and Prime Ministers anyway.
So the short answer to your question is I have no concerns on the issue because I don't see it happening even if he were PM.
I would tell him I disagreed with leaving NATO, if asked, I certainly would not hold a view against anyone that wasn't a policy and likely never would be policy either.

Well said Joey

I'm with your views regarding Trident. As for leaving NATO? We have yet to hear his radically different international policy.

I also agree that Corbyn is going to have to make some fairly big compromises.

[arista]

He is Not going to leave Nato.

It was a good interview

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/27/421021/default/v2/mail-001-1st-ia-nth-28n-29-nws-20150928-1-563x750.jpg

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/28/421102/default/v2/cegrab-20150928-123412-635-1-736x414.jpg
John McDonnell got a great applause

http://news.sky.com/story/1560083/labour-amazon-and-google-must-pay-fair-share



Tomorrow 2:15PM
Jeremy gives his speech

[joeysteele]

I actually followed what he said and found a lot of it interesting too.
This was far better, being honest, than any of Ed Balls speeches the last few years.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/28/421200/default/v1/thei-1-442x589.jpg
Live Today on all News and News Radio
after 2PM

[arista]

He is Live on BBC2, BBC2HD
and SkyNewsHD

watch online free
http://news.sky.com/watch-live

[Livia]

Ah yes... John McDonnell. This is the man who said that we should "honour the IRA for the bombings which brought the British government to the negotiating table". He disgusts me.

It's funny that the odious, questionable comments and actions we've seen from these men are now forgotten, excused or denied. When Corbyn made a point of turning his back on troops returning from active service - men sent to fight by HIS party... was he being Mr Nice then? Or hadn't he started yet?

[arista]

To many thankings
he has done all this before.

Injustice - Yes Big Word
but we need the Beef.


Maybe next year.

[kirklancaster]

Ah yes... John McDonnell. This is the man who said that we should "honour the IRA for the bombings which brought the British government to the negotiating table". He disgusts me.

It's funny that the odious, questionable comments and actions we've seen from these men are now forgotten, excused or denied. When Corbyn made a point of turning his back on troops returning from active service - men sent to fight by HIS party... was he being Mr Nice then? Or hadn't he started yet?

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[arista]

Ah yes... John McDonnell. This is the man who said that we should "honour the IRA for the bombings which brought the British government to the negotiating table". He disgusts me.

It's funny that the odious, questionable comments and actions we've seen from these men are now forgotten, excused or denied. When Corbyn made a point of turning his back on troops returning from active service - men sent to fight by HIS party... was he being Mr Nice then? Or hadn't he started yet?


He said sorry on TV

[JoshBB]

Ah yes... John McDonnell. This is the man who said that we should "honour the IRA for the bombings which brought the British government to the negotiating table". He disgusts me.

It's funny that the odious, questionable comments and actions we've seen from these men are now forgotten, excused or denied. When Corbyn made a point of turning his back on troops returning from active service - men sent to fight by HIS party... was he being Mr Nice then? Or hadn't he started yet?

Everything he's said is no worse than what other politicians have on numerous occasions. I thought some of the things he said were shocking and upsetting, to the point where I almost lost faith in corbyn, but John did clear everything up on Question Time and his apology was very sincere.. you should watch it if you haven't already.

[joeysteele]

It was an interesting speech, I didn't mind the thanks to the various people, this is his first speech as leader to conference.
I actually thought he kept the thanks to a minimum really.

I liked the progression of the speech, it seemed more natural and there was a warmth to it.
I doubt many Conservative supporters outside the hall could in any way connect with the 'nicer' and 'kinder' hope as to politics.

Is it a speech to inspire enough to win an election, no not at all.
However he could have 4 more speeches to make before the general election in 2020 to conference

I do think this approach and this speech can begin to win back those who voted UKIP, mainly to get an EU referendum.
I also believe he could reach out enough to begin to turn the tide in Scotland too.
The elections next year are his real test, local elections, Scottish parliament, Welsh assembly and the London Mayoral election.

If he does well in most and can show some halt to the drain to the SNP in Scotland too.
Then this will be a speech well made in fact and his leadership assured.
That is my hope and what he or any other Politicians have done and said in the past are immaterial, David Cameron in his younger days was part of a group that wanted Nelson Mandela executed I believe.

If we all started wheeling out the dubious things politicians high profile or otherwise said and did in their younger days and in the past, there would be very few politicians indeed likely worthy of anyones votes.

[arista]

It was an interesting speech, I didn't mind the thanks to the various people, this is his first speech as leader to conference.
I actually thought he kept the thanks to a minimum really.

I liked the progression of the speech, it seemed more natural and there was a warmth to it.
I doubt many Conservative supporters outside the hall could in any way connect with the 'nicer' and 'kinder' hope as to politics.

Is it a speech to inspire enough to win an election, no not at all.
However he could have 4 more speeches to make before the general election in 2020 to conference

I do think this approach and this speech can begin to win back those who voted UKIP, mainly to get an EU referendum.
I also believe he could reach out enough to begin to turn the tide in Scotland too.
The elections next year are his real test, local elections, Scottish parliament, Welsh assembly and the London Mayoral election.

If he does well in most and can show some halt to the drain to the SNP in Scotland too.
Then this will be a speech well made in fact and his leadership assured.
That is my hope and what he or any other Politicians have done and said in the past are immaterial, David Cameron in his younger days was part of a group that wanted Nelson Mandela executed I believe.

If we all started wheeling out the dubious things politicians high profile or otherwise said and did in their younger days and in the past, there would be very few politicians indeed likely worthy of anyones votes.



But Joey he was live on SkyNewsHD
doing just that 2 days ago


"enough to win an election, no not at all."
Of course I would never expect that this early,
but if you say the Current way of Life is Wrong
you Must show us how a Policy
can change it.


Building Homes!
Good
but all partys are doing that.


SkyNewsHD Red Line test
got a Positive
so its a fair start

[joeysteele]

But Joey he was live on SkyNewsHD
doing just that 2 days ago


"enough to win an election, no not at all."
Of course I would never expect that this early,
but if you say the Current way of Life is Wrong
you Must show us how a Policy
can change it.


Building Homes!
Good
but all partys are doing that.


SkyNewsHD Red Line test
got a Positive
so its a fair start

I agree with all that.

As you yourself however said, all too early, plenty of time to spell out real detail after all policies are formed and approved in full.

A long ,long way to go yet.

[Livia]

He said sorry on TV

He said it. You can't unring a bell no matter how sincere you seem

...John did clear everything up on Question Time and his apology was very sincere.. you should watch it if you haven't already.


He said it, that's the bottom line. Someone who makes his living by being a politician said it out loud. "We should be honouring the IRA for their bombing". You can't unring a bell no matter how sincere you seem.

[arista]

"I agree with all that."

Thats Rare

[joeysteele]

"I agree with all that."

Thats Rare

Not recently with you arista.

You are a strong Conservative supporter but you have been really fair in your posts as to Jeremy Corbyn, to be fair to you, when you could have joined in the bashing of him near all the time.

I 100% respect that.

[arista]

Not recently with you arista.

You are a strong Conservative supporter but you have been really fair in your posts as to Jeremy Corbyn, to be fair to you, when you could have joined in the bashing of him near all the time.

I 100% respect that.


I want the Clear Blue Water
between both Conservative and Labour.
He is doing just that

And On Jeremy
he has 4 years and a bit
to show a Policy
to win all of us to
elect him as a PM

[Livia]

He's rather deserved the bashing if you ask me Joey. To me, he's a very dangerous man who could cost us the security we have. Although I do think that by the next General election the Labour Party would have started to eat itself.

[arista]

He's rather deserved the bashing if you ask me Joey. To me, he's a very dangerous man who could cost us the security we have. Although I do think that by the next General election the Labour Party would have started to eat itself.


I was amazed on BBCNewsHD
a few mins back
in a Morley Club
had 2 Ex Labour Voters
who would not back him.


There is a Major Problem
with Total Illegal Migrants getting in the UK
via Smugglers
Today they were on a Double High Lorry with new cars
and a Smuggler bent down in Broad Daylight
to get them down. All Filmed by a member of public

He must say that he is against that

[kirklancaster]

Everything he's said is no worse than what other politicians have on numerous occasions. I thought some of the things he said were shocking and upsetting, to the point where I almost lost faith in corbyn, but John did clear everything up on Question Time and his apology was very sincere.. you should watch it if you haven't already.

Really Josh? - REALLY?

[kirklancaster]

He's rather deserved the bashing if you ask me Joey. To me, he's a very dangerous man who could cost us the security we have. Although I do think that by the next General election the Labour Party would have started to eat itself.

He will not last until the next election Liv. Already the labour party are beginning to voice their concerns about him.

[joeysteele]

He's rather deserved the bashing if you ask me Joey. To me, he's a very dangerous man who could cost us the security we have. Although I do think that by the next General election the Labour Party would have started to eat itself.

I think we have a pretty dangerous PM now actually when I look at, and also where I have got into helping in the lives of people he has persecuted with his heartless policies.
People who ate the weakest and indeed most vulnerable.

Someone who can treat those human beings with such contempt and cruel policies, is far more dangerous in my mind than Corbyn is now.

I also don't accept he will be a threat to security as to the UK,I really, with respect see that as just scaremongering, because, I, just as I don't with the other parties either, believe they or the Labour party will ever be a threat to UK security.
Just as I will never believe Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, UKIP or any other supporters or members of those parties would let them ever be a danger to it either.

[smudgie]

Thank you..thank you...and thank Everybody else as well.
I believe..
I believe...
I believe".

And a load of bumph in between:shrug:

Hoping he gets better as he goes along.:sleep:

[Northern Monkey]

Ah yes... John McDonnell. This is the man who said that we should "honour the IRA for the bombings which brought the British government to the negotiating table". He disgusts me.

It's funny that the odious, questionable comments and actions we've seen from these men are now forgotten, excused or denied. When Corbyn made a point of turning his back on troops returning from active service - men sent to fight by HIS party... was he being Mr Nice then? Or hadn't he started yet?

:clap1:

[Northern Monkey]

He will not last until the next election Liv. Already the labour party are beginning to voice their concerns about him.

I give him until 2017 tops.

[arista]

He will not last until the next election Liv. Already the labour party are beginning to voice their concerns about him.



No Kirk
thats just some
in private.

Until they go Public
it means nothing

[kirklancaster]

No Kirk
thats just some
in private.

Until they go Public
it means nothing

Like a volcano Arista - the rumblings are increasingly more audible and cannot be contained. It will all erupt sooner than later.

[arista]

Like a volcano Arista - the rumblings are increasingly more audible and cannot be contained. It will all erupt sooner than later.


They were meant to under Brown
and Miliband.


But no one went Public

[empire]

the last labour government, they left the country in huge debts, remember the note they left behind, sorry there's no money left, how true that was, labour councils are renowned for wasting public money, corbyn offers up the same medicine as all his predecessors, and the naive especially I sucpect young voters, believe him, the failings of socialist policies in the past, do not particularly bother him, as he has secured the one thing that every politician seeks, power, every young voter and die hard labour supporter, sucked up to blair in the day he walked into the party, and are doing the same thing with corbyn,

[arista]

Ch4HD News Live
Jon Snow is having a Live Debate
in the Brighton Conference

on now.

[arista]

Good JC has given interviews to All TV and Radio
this morning,
On SkyNewsHD he confirmed he changed his Tie
as his team wanted it changed.
It was another shade of red, that he he first choose
http://news.sky.com/story/1561380/corbyn-accepts-different-views-on-syria
Video

Saying he wants No Bombs in Syria
he wants to find another way?


Well he could pop out there
but they may Cut His Head Off

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/29/421400/default/v2/thetimes-front-page-30-sept-2015-1-442x589.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/29/421390/default/v2/indy-page-1-563x750.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/29/421387/default/v2/i-page-1-563x750.jpg

[joeysteele]

They were meant to under Brown
and Miliband.


But no one went Public

You are right, I am Labour party member, I see no appetite at all for any real fight here.
There are actually a good number of MPs who would also have been really unhappy with any of the other3 winning the leadership too.

There are always rumblings against leaders in large parties.
However unlike the 80s,this time there is nowhere for disgruntled Labour MPs to go.

They never would go to the Lib Dems and certainly never to UKIP. to make a new party akin to the idea of the doomed SDP in the 80s would also be a suicide mission for them.
All, and I mean all, who don't want Corbyn know that too.

[arista]

Jeremy has said he will not push the Nuke button
I guess he will let Angela Eagle do it
http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/687733/stream_img.jpg



A clip on SkyNewsHD
had radio 5 asking the "button pushing question"

[joeysteele]

Jeremy has said he will not push the Nuke button
I guess he will let Angela Eagle do it



A clip on SkyNewsHD
had radio 5 asking the "button pushing question"

Well no one in the UK could likely do it ,'unless' the USA agreed first anyway.

[arista]

Well no one in the UK could do it unless the USA agreed first anyway.


Yes but if we get that far
the PM must do it

[Livia]

Well no one in the UK could likely do it ,'unless' the USA agreed first anyway.

Or unless Corbyn takes us out of NATO, of course.

[MTVN]

So Corbyn has made a bit of a farce of the whole 'open debate' that Labour are supposed to be having over Trident. Why bother debating spending billions to renew Trident if the Prime Minister has already ruled out ever using nuclear weapons before that debate has even taken place. It makes the whole point of having a nuclear deterrent redundant.

It was obvious that Lord Falconer wasn't happy with Corbyn's comments when he was being interviewed on the Daily Politics earlier. The shadow cabinet is barely holding together already.

[arista]

So Corbyn has made a bit of a farce of the whole 'open debate' that Labour are supposed to be having over Trident. Why bother debating spending billions to renew Trident if the Prime Minister has already ruled out ever using nuclear weapons before that debate has even taken place. It makes the whole point of having a nuclear deterrent redundant.

It was obvious that Lord Falconer wasn't happy with Corbyn's comments when he was being interviewed on the Daily Politics earlier. The shadow cabinet is barely holding together already.


Yes Enemy Within

[joeysteele]

It is and rightly should be a dilemma for anyone.

(My Dad always said he was only ever really worried someone would be foolish to press the nuke button when Ronald Reagan was President).

Hopefully no one taking power would ever want to and I bring to mind a line from a song from the 1960s,which is as relevant now as it must have been then too.
From 'Eve of Destruction' by Barry McGuire.
''if the button is is pushed there's no running away, there'll be no one to save with the World in a grave''.

[DemolitionRed]

It is and rightly should be a dilemma for anyone.

(My Dad always said he was only ever really worried someone would be foolish to press the nuke button when Ronald Reagan was President).

Hopefully no one taking power would ever want to and I bring to mind a line from a song from the 1960s,which is as relevant now as it must have been then too.
From 'Eve of Destruction' by Barry McGuire.
''if the button is is pushed there's no running away, there'll be no one to save with the World in a grave''.

Exactly joey. We'd be damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[arista]

But it shows how Jeremy can be caught among a pool of
Reporters and he stands High with his own Private Views
and will not change.

However unimportant you think pushing
a button to fight back - a PM Must Be 100% Clear on this
It matters Joey

[empire]

Rik Mayall's character Alan B'stard, said some years ago that new labour are so right wing, even more right wing than the conservative party, there is some truth to that joke.

[DemolitionRed]

the last labour government, they left the country in huge debts, remember the note they left behind, sorry there's no money left, how true that was, labour councils are renowned for wasting public money, corbyn offers up the same medicine as all his predecessors, and the naive especially I sucpect young voters, believe him, the failings of socialist policies in the past, do not particularly bother him, as he has secured the one thing that every politician seeks, power, every young voter and die hard labour supporter, sucked up to blair in the day he walked into the party, and are doing the same thing with corbyn,

I remember those headlines. Didn't they go something like, "The Labour Government Left the Biggest Debt in the Developed World?" and the scary thing is, people still believe this.

I dug up this from 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AQYfPhtWpy8 I strongly suggest you watch it because its categorical proof that we had the lowest debt in G7

When 'cash terms' are used instead of 'percentages', everyone starts to get a bit confused. Of course they do and that's exactly why the Tories used cash terms to deliberately mislead us and have us all believe that they were the ones who had to pick up the mess. https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/public-debt-how-does-the-uk-compare/

The Tory Government also claimed that Labour had left them with a deficit of 11% which was a lie. Labour left a deficit of 7.7% You can find this on OBR Economic and Fiscal Outlook page 19 table 1.2

I could dig up heaps of evidence regarding this mythical debt that the last Labour party left behind. Cameron should be apologising to this country for this very deliberate deceit. He and Osborne lied through their pearly white teeth and have never been held accountable.

[empire]

labour did not overspend, just in britain, they increase the foreign aid budget, and they threw away a huge amount of are money to the eu, in 2005 blair's advisers warned him that he needed to stop throwing away money, and balance the books in early 2006, because the national debt was at 500bn in 2005, blair did nothing, and his dimwit pal gorden brown, who thought that he could spin the coin, by selling off are gold for a cheap 2bn, in 1999, and lost 11bn, and falling for the bankers bull****, labour where borrowing on the countries limts to pay it back, why do you think that the tory toffs, got in so fast in 2010, and they did not need too shout propaganda about it, it was the way labour ran the economy and how they handled it, Im not saying that the tory's can reduce the debt, because cuts can only take you so far, and because we are still throwing are money away to another state, in the last 15 years we are in a more weak state than we where in 1979.

[DemolitionRed]

Yes, Yes and Yes, Labour don’t have a clean slate when we scrutinize their spending but then neither do the Conservatives. The spending you stated above is all true but Cameron’s deficit claim is a blatant lie and there's no denying that. If you need proof of that lie you can get it from the HM Treasury, the International Monetary Fund and the Office of National Statistics. You can even get it from George Osborne himself!!

Did you watch that video link I posted? George Osborne openly admits to the Treasury Collect Committee that he didn’t know the UK had the lowest debt in the G7.

Take a look at the 2008 deficit...its 8%!! http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2011/10/19040/

Are you suggesting that the global banking crisis was just a bull**** excuse and it was more to do with capital spending and fiscal stimulus or even bank bailouts? Britain suffered massive losses as a direct result of the GBC. We were always going to suffer more than others because we, just like the US have the biggest financial centres in the G7 so when we fall foul of a GBC, we will suffer the most. It would not of mattered who was in power, the result would of been the same.
If output falls, deficit increases, that’s basic economics.

Just out of interest; how do you think Cameron’s austerity plan is going? and what are the Conservatives doing that Labour (according to the Tories) got so wrong?

[joeysteele]

But it shows how Jeremy can be caught among a pool of
Reporters and he stands High with his own Private Views
and will not change.

However unimportant you think pushing
a button to fight back - a PM Must Be 100% Clear on this
It matters Joey

It matters but now for me, I fail to see the reasoning behind having something so expensive, that is 'not' really our own independent deterrent since it is under the umbrella of the USA as to when and if we could use it likely.

Corbyn has been against nuclear weapons for decades, because he holds such a view should not be a barrier to being a PM.
If only more leaders in the World were against the weapons too.

When do we use them, when would we use them, first thereby causing worldwide disaster, in retaliation to another Nation using them, thereby dramatically increasing further the demise of the World.

I think there should be a UK debate as to what people think of spending so much on them and this is a good time to have such a debate, with the EU referendum being done as well.

My Dad informs me of the ban the bomb, keep the bomb debate that went on in the 1960s.
He, like me, now thinks a new debate is probably needed now.

I will never aspire to be a PM but I doubt I would ever want to be the person that authorised the pressing of the nuclear button myself either.
Being a PM should not mean you give up your conscience as to respect for others and life.

[arista]

"When do we use them"

After we are attacked, you can never
cancel its use.



Its Simple if he is going to be PM
he must agree to have his finger on the
button in Extreme Circumstances.

Its that simple

[arista]

"I think there should be a UK debate"

No as more want them
any Debates are Labours Problem

[joeysteele]

"When do we use them"

After we are attacked, you can never
cancel its use.



Its Simple if he is going to be PM
he must agree to have his finger on the
button in Extreme Circumstances.

Its that simple

Why, if he really believes it is wrong to use them.
'If' we are attacked with them, and surely you are not advocating using them if attacked generally, then how long would it be, and it will be very short likely, before we and who we are responding to are out of existence altogether.

Does that really make any real sense, not to me it doesn't, for me it is time to be getting rid of them.
However if the whole of the UK decided to keep them and spend the vast sums needed to have them, then that should be respected.
It still doesn't mean anyone should be 'forced' to actually push the button.

[arista]

"Does that really make any real sense,"

All his Labour MP's want them.

Ukraine Got Rid of theirs
"Then Russia Invaded"

[arista]

Jeremy may not want them
But to be a UK PM he must have Nuke Subs
Fact

[joeysteele]

Jeremy may not want them
But to be a UK PM he must have Nuke Subs
Fact

He will accept having them but not to be forced to use them, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Also do we have to have as many and do we really need to bear the whole cost of them.
This is a debate that needs to take place and then peoples positions be decided finally at that time, after such a debate.

I could be persuaded in favour of them even thought at present I am more against, and certainly against the massive cost of them too.

What I would not tolerate are people telling me that I should support them and also support the use of them.
I will take much more convincing as to that.

[arista]

"after such a debate."

Sure but Yesterday Jeremy Jumped ahead of that
saying he will not use them.

[joeysteele]

"after such a debate."

Sure but Yesterday Jeremy Jumped ahead of that
saying he will not use them.

That is his position now as it has been for decades.

Why should he have to sacrifice his conscience and have to be forced to use these things.
A PM cannot now go into any conflict without Parliaments approval, why should one have to push the button, or more to the point say they will when it is against what they believe in.
When has any PM ever had to.

He couldn't do it even if he wanted to anyway without the cooperation of the USA likely.

[arista]

"That is his position now as it has been for decades"

If he is going to be the 2020 PM of the UK
he will have to agree to use them
if he has to

That is all that matters now

[DemolitionRed]

Arista makes a good point regarding the Ukraine. All those agreements that had been set in place came to nothing when the **** hit the fan. The Ukraine spent many years going through alliance agreements regarding nuclear weapons but they turned out to be nothing more than a lot of false promises.

Getting rid of Trident would still cost us billions. Nuclear dismantlement is expensive business. It costs around £25 billion to refurbish Trident and it costs around £25 billion to decommission it. Both these costs are ongoing because you can't just bury it and forget about it.

My argument is; Trident isn't independent, its merely a subsidy for Americas forward defence. If we are going to have a deterrent, then at least let it be an independent one. Do we really trust warmongering America enough to let them have such huge control over our defence system? America has the ability to disable Trident in one foul swoop.

I'm not sure where I stand on 'nuclear defence' but I would rather not have Trident whilst its so heavily backed up by the US.

What I would like to see, though it won't happen in my lifetime, is a global ban on nuclear weapons. I somehow doubt our children or our grandchildren will live in a world with no nuclear arsenal.

[joeysteele]

Arista makes a good point regarding the Ukraine. All those agreements that had been set in place came to nothing when the **** hit the fan. The Ukraine spent many years going through alliance agreements regarding nuclear weapons but they turned out to be nothing more than a lot of false promises.

Getting rid of Trident would still cost us billions. Nuclear dismantlement is expensive business. It costs around £25 billion to refurbish Trident and it costs around £25 billion to decommission it. Both these costs are ongoing because you can't just bury it and forget about it.

My argument is; Trident isn't independent, its merely a subsidy for Americas forward defence. If we are going to have a deterrent, then at least let it be an independent one. Do we really trust warmongering America enough to let them have such huge control over our defence system? America has the ability to disable Trident in one foul swoop.

I'm not sure where I stand on 'nuclear defence' but I would rather not have Trident whilst its so heavily backed up by the US.

What I would like to see, though it won't happen in my lifetime, is a global ban on nuclear weapons. I somehow doubt our children or our grandchildren will live in a world with no nuclear arsenal.

All of that I can agree with and be persuaded by. All valid and great points.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/10/10/423454/default/v2/11oct1home02-1-563x750.jpg


Whats is he Going to Do
SACK them all?

[Kizzy]

Tory lite are revolting.

[arista]

Tory lite are revolting.



Yes New Labour (RED TORY)
are going stab him in his back.



Feckers

[Kizzy]

Yes New Labour (RED TORY)
are going stab him in his back.



Feckers

To be fair though even though he is the party leader he can't dictate the party line on anything. It may seem like going against the leader but I suppose it isn't really. Using that as a reason to oust a democratically elected leader would be very shady however.

[bots]

To be fair though even though he is the party leader he can't dictate the party line on anything. It may seem like going against the leader but I suppose it isn't really. Using that as a reason to oust a democratically elected leader would be very shady however.

Here is the thing though, I don't get the impression that Corbyn has the support of anything close to the majority of the parliamentary labour party, and without their support he is basically ****ed. So it really doesn't matter a damn how consensual and inclusive the vote was that got him elected as leader, he is not a tenable leader without a huge majority of support within his own party within parliament. This is why its meaningless widening the scope of who can vote for leader.

[Northern Monkey]

Well,I predicted that he'll last two years tops.He's just too flaky on the defence of our country and people.Nuclear disarmament is a dream that everybody wishes for but it needs to be done safely,responsibly and multilaterally.With so much tension and unrest in the world you don't just go scrapping your biggest deterent.Wether we like it or not nuclear weapons are almost certainly the reason there has'nt been a major conflict since WW2.The number one responsiblity of any leader imo is the protection of their people.
Also on other military issues like Syria.He needs to be able to look at it objectively and weigh up all the pros and cons.If he's looking at the situation from a hardline pacifist perspective then he already has a bias.

[kirklancaster]

Well,I predicted that he'll last two years tops.He's just too flaky on the defence of our country and people.Nuclear disarmament is a dream that everybody wishes for but it needs to be done safely,responsibly and multilaterally.With so much tension and unrest in the world you don't just go scrapping your biggest deterent.Wether we like it or not nuclear weapons are almost certainly the reason there has'nt been a major conflict since WW2.The number one responsiblity of any leader imo is the protection of their people.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

Is anyone of the mind that having a weapon makes us a target?

Corbyn may not have the support of a certain amount of MPs, he will have his work cut out to attempt to appeal to many as well as the electorate. Will the blairites that we didn't want win out? I don't know, I hope not.

[Northern Monkey]

Is anyone of the mind that having a weapon makes us a target?

Corbyn may not have the support of a certain amount of MPs, he will have his work cut out to attempt to appeal to many as well as the electorate. Will the blairites that we didn't want win out? I don't know, I hope not.

If WW3 kicked off and Russia and China were involved then Everywhere would be a target,Especially Britain.
We do know that no smaller non nuclear nation would ever risk trying to invade us BECAUSE we have Trident.Our army and navy is small now compared with many countries.Our biggest deterent appart from America is Trident.

[joeysteele]

Here is the thing though, I don't get the impression that Corbyn has the support of anything close to the majority of the parliamentary labour party, and without their support he is basically ****ed. So it really doesn't matter a damn how consensual and inclusive the vote was that got him elected as leader, he is not a tenable leader without a huge majority of support within his own party within parliament. This is why its meaningless widening the scope of who can vote for leader.

You are correct as to the parliamentary party, also would I bet on him leading Labour into the 2020 election, no I wouldn't.
Unless local election results and Scottish results start to improve, the parliamentary party can be fickle too.
It was only the parliamentary MPs who elected Michael Foot over Denis Healey.

The thing is, Corbyn has incredible support from the whole movement that is the Labour party, only not with the MPs.

They would be extremely foolish to take on the wider they will need to help them win seats in the future if they really set out to deliberately make life difficult for Corbyn as leader.
Labour don't like to see their leaders stabbed in the back.

I am finding Labour MPs would prefer most of Corbyn's sketched out policies but under a different leader.
That may not be achievable for them however if his support within the wider party, (who would be needed to vote again in any future leaderships election), stays as strong as it is now.

Also if he were to make the Trident vote and Syria vote a freevote,(nothing in my view wrong with that position at all), then that may open up a new consensus between him and most MPs too.

[bots]

Is anyone of the mind that having a weapon makes us a target?

Corbyn may not have the support of a certain amount of MPs, he will have his work cut out to attempt to appeal to many as well as the electorate. Will the blairites that we didn't want win out? I don't know, I hope not.

We are much more of a target for the role that we play in the world and our principles more than anything else. Laying aside strategic nuclear weapons for a moment, we still have tactical nukes and incredibly advanced normal weaponry that make us a formidable enemy if someone chooses to go against us.

The time of Blair has gone, the labour party that will be successful will be the one that captures the imagination of the majority of the voters, and their political leanings have always been in the middle ground.

[arista]

To be fair though even though he is the party leader he can't dictate the party line on anything. It may seem like going against the leader but I suppose it isn't really. Using that as a reason to oust a democratically elected leader would be very shady however.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2012/9/7/1347046893418/Lord-Falconer-008.jpg



Bang On Right Kizzy

[Kizzy]

We are much more of a target for the role that we play in the world and our principles more than anything else. Laying aside strategic nuclear weapons for a moment, we still have tactical nukes and incredibly advanced normal weaponry that make us a formidable enemy if someone chooses to go against us.

The time of Blair has gone, the labour party that will be successful will be the one that captures the imagination of the majority of the voters, and their political leanings have always been in the middle ground.

I don't understand what you mean by this.
Being a centrist is fine, as long as as a labour supporter they remember social policy plays a huge role in the ethos, Corbyn reminds us of this and is right to do so.
The scaremongering is simply to undermine public confidence while at the same time loot the UK for all valuable assets using Corbyn as a smokescreen while it's happening.

[arista]

Today The Labour Leader
will have some Questions from
the public Live 12PM

Parliament Online Live
SkyNewsHD online in 1080P YouTube
BBC News online
All Free


BBC2HD TV Dalily Politics 11:30AM also free online
SkyNewsHD TV

[arista]

Live Now


http://news.sky.com/watch-live

[arista]

PMQ's was Great Today

But nothing Advanced much except a Lady MP's
Hospital to be looked at.

[Kizzy]

It was good, the PM hates that he can't just make some snotty comment, get a load of scoffers snorting and sit back down... he actually has to address the issue, he struggled today and jez knew he had him sweating :)

[hijaxers]

PMQ's was Great Today

But nothing Advanced much except a Lady MP's
Hospital to be looked at.

How was it great ? He never answers any questions - just parrots the same ole crap day in day out

[bots]

There are never any surprises in PMQ's, the prime minister is always given a list of questions that will be asked before the event so that answers can be prepared. Its all just one big act.

[Kizzy]

Ah but when there isn't a satisfactory answer and his usual fudging won't wash it's fun watching him squirm.

[arista]

Ah but when there isn't a satisfactory answer and his usual fudging won't wash it's fun watching him squirm.



It was the same with Brown
who was a Temp New Labour Leader
that sold our Gold Vaults off cheap.

[arista]

Last Night his Downfall sadly starts


Corbyn Suffers Revolt Over Commons Spending Vote
Twenty-one Labour MPs defy a three-line whip by
abstaining instead of voting to oppose
Chancellor George Osborne's fiscal charter.

http://news.sky.com/story/1569643/corbyn-suffers-revolt-over-commons-spending-vote

[Kizzy]

It was the same with Brown
who was a Temp New Labour Leader
that sold our Gold Vaults off cheap.

Yes and the last govt lost 3 billion from the sale of royal mail.... govts cock up.
At least Brown did it to save us from going under during the recession. is that AAA OK?

[joeysteele]

Yes and the last govt lost 3 billion from the sale of royal mail.... govts cock up.
At least Brown did it to save us from going under during the recession. is that AAA OK?

Not to mention the selling off of gas, electricity and water done by the 80s and 90s Conservative govt.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/14/22/2D6A802800000578-3273127-image-a-1_1444858124682.jpg
[New rebellion: After first urging MPs to vote for the Charter, Jeremy Corbyn,
pictured with shadow chancellor John McDonnell during Wednesday night's debate,
saw about 20 MPs defy his call to vote against]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3273127/Twenty-Labour-MPs-defy-Corbyn-Commons-Osborne-s-plans-make-future-governments-balance-books-passed.html#ixzz3oeZaOWiv


[The 37 Labour MPs missing from the division were:
Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green & Bow),
David Anderson (Blaydon),
Ian Austin (Dudley North),
Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West),
Kevin Barron (Rother Valley),
Ben Bradshaw (Exeter),
Karen Buck (Westminster North),
Sarah Champion (Rotherham),
Vernon Coaker (Gedling),
Ann Coffey (Stockport),
Rosie Cooper (Lancashire West),
John Cryer (Leyton & Wanstead),
Simon Danczuk (Rochdale),
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West),
Chris Evans (Islwyn),
Frank Field (Birkenhead),
Mike Gapes (Ilford South),
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield),
Margaret Hodge (Barking),
Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central),
Graham Jones (Hyndburn),
Helen Jones (Warrington North),
Kevan Jones (Durham North),
Liz Kendall (Leicester West),
David Lammy (Tottenham),
Chris Leslie (Nottingham East),
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough),
Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham Ladywood),
Michael Meacher (Oldham West & Royton),
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central),
Jamie Reed (Copeland),
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West),
Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield),
Angela Smith (Penistone & Stocksbridge),
Graham Stringer (Blackley & Broughton),
Gisela Stuart (Birmingham Edgbaston)
and John Woodcock (Barrow & Furness).]

[arista]

Also the SNP Leader Women
stuck loads of knives in Corbyns back today
saying he is unelectable and in disarray

[Kizzy]

Rachel! That's it, I'm unfriending her on facebook :idc:

[the truth]

none of them discuss the issues ....apart from the nuclear one

[joeysteele]

Rachel! That's it, I'm unfriending her on facebook :idc:

I am massively disappointed too in Rachel Reeves Kizzy, for me she was rising star in Labour but her attitude since Corbyn became leader is pathetic.

Sadly I feel reading back, Labour may have in her another Shirley Williams, who if she was getting her own way all the time, all is good.

However if things seem to go against her in the party, she is a total turncoat.

[arista]

Corbyn Clear On Trident As He Takes CND Role
The Labour leader signals his unwavering
determination to fight the renewal
of Trident by becoming a vice president of CND.

http://news.sky.com/story/1571115/corbyn-clear-on-trident-as-he-takes-cnd-role


More Labour MP's want the Nukes
Split the Party Up

[Livia]

Also the SNP Leader Women
stuck loads of knives in Corbyns back today
saying he is unelectable and in disarray

She was bound to though, to be fair. The only party that could give the SNP a run for their money in Scotland is Labour.

[joeysteele]

Also the SNP Leader Women
stuck loads of knives in Corbyns back today
saying he is unelectable and in disarray

Leaders and MPs of other parties really go to stick the knife in when they fear another leader or opponent.

I expected nothing less from Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP stirred up a whole new following from younger voters via the referendum debate, and she is well aware now too that for whatever reason it may be, Jeremy Corbyn is really attracting younger voters.

[Kizzy]

Is this the 'lib dem' effect? please don't say Nicola will go the same way as Clegg.

[joeysteele]

Is this the 'lib dem' effect? please don't say Nicola will go the same way as Clegg.

She has a problem herself Kizzy, the SNP would like a new referendum on independence, she is not sure including that in the SNP manifesto for next year would get her an overall majority again.
Thereby she could fail to deliver same.

She can be almost sure she will get strong support in the Holyrood elections next year but she has gnawing at the back of her mind that Corbyn may just attract enough former Labour voters to deny her that status again.

She also knows and clearly so that the SNP really cannot do any better than it did in May this year.
They can now only start to lose ground, maybe very slowly at first but that the real only benefitting party from any SNP losses now will be Corbyn's Labour party.

She has a much more difficult task ahead of her now than before.

[Kizzy]

True, which is a real shame for her as I guess she'll feel really conflicted, having to rubbish Corbyn will make her appear pro tory... and who wants that? :laugh:

[joeysteele]

True, which is a real shame for her as I guess she'll feel really conflicted, having to rubbish Corbyn will make her appear pro tory... and who wants that? :laugh:

You will never hear her however praising Cameron, that is one great thing about her for me.
She is really worried about being seen as in any way pro this Conservative party under Camerons leadership.

[JoshBB]

Honestly 20 MPs isn't really a big revolt.. we had more than that voting against the whip & austerity when Harriet was acting leader.

[joeysteele]

Honestly 20 MPs isn't really a big revolt.. we had more than that voting against the whip & austerity when Harriet was acting leader.

Good point again.
... and they didn't actually fully vote against the whip, they abstained Josh, had they trooped through the lobbies with the Conservatives then revolt may have had a little more as to being an appropriate word.

[Kizzy]

Yes I agree she can't rightly be seen as pro tory, the action by the UN in Scotland against the austerity measures and their impact with cement that so it can't be spun that way either.
The abstainers in the Labour ranks know that it will only reflect badly on them to appear for austerity at this time with the attack on WTC, which is why they won't have revolted.

[arista]

Today at PMQ's loads of other MP's of all party's
did the Corbyn gimmick of naming a email Question.

Dave told Jeremy
that many on the Labour side
back the Nuclear Defense Plan
but sadly Jeremy wants to get into the De Lorean Car
to go back to 1985 as he is now the leader of CND
http://news.sky.com/story/1571115/jeremy-corbyn-privately-addresses-cnd-members

PMQ's ran 8mins over , shocking

[Livia]

I saw Mr Corbyn in his white tie, having dinner at the palace for the Chinese visit. He looked like a man out of his depth. A man out of place. A man with a head transplant.

[joeysteele]

I saw Mr Corbyn in his white tie, having dinner at the palace for the Chinese visit. He looked like a man out of his depth. A man out of place. A man with a head transplant.

I wonder what everyone would be saying had he gone in his usual suit and no tie.

He looked perfectly fine to me with respect.

When he dresses correctly, (whatever correctly has to be in these overhyped and massively costly pompous occasions), he gets ridicule, when he doesn't dress correctly he gets attacked for not doing so.

Sorry I find that petty and unfair.

[arista]

Joey
Bollocks to what he puts on.


He is Now Leader Of CND
no Nukes for him.
Un Electable 100%

[smudgie]

I saw Mr Corbyn in his white tie, having dinner at the palace for the Chinese visit. He looked like a man out of his depth. A man out of place. A man with a head transplant.

Aye, a fish out of water springs to mind.

[Livia]

I wonder what everyone would be saying had he gone in his usual suit and no tie.

He looked perfectly fine to me with respect.

When he dresses correctly, (whatever correctly has to be in these overhyped and massively costly pompous occasions), he gets ridicule, when he doesn't dress correctly he gets attacked for not doing so.

Sorry I find that petty and unfair.

Joey, that's politics. Counter it with the constant accusation that Cameron and all conservatives are "lizards". That's not exactly what you'd call "fair".

[DemolitionRed]

Aye, a fish out of water springs to mind.

No surprise there. Jeremy Corbyn is the last man on earth who would feel comfortable with a group of champagne charlies.

[Livia]

No surprise there. Jeremy Corbyn is the last man on earth who would feel comfortable with a group of champagne charlies.

If he doesn't feel comfortable with people who aren't in his personal social class, he should get the hell out of politics.

[smudgie]

No surprise there. Jeremy Corbyn is the last man on earth who would feel comfortable with a group of champagne charlies.

Exactly, I just can't see how him being leader will work to be honest.

[DemolitionRed]

If he doesn't feel comfortable with people who aren't in his personal social class, he should get the hell out of politics.

Get out of Government because he doesn't agree with fascism? or get out of politics because he doesn't enjoy sipping champagne with the hooray Henry's?

[Livia]

Get out of Government because he doesn't agree with fascism? or get out of politics because he doesn't enjoy sipping champagne with the hooray Henry's?

We don't have a fascist government. And it's a bit of a generalisation to assume everyone else in politics is a hooray Henry or a Champagne Charlie. He's an ordinary little man with left wing views better suited to the 1970s.

[DemolitionRed]

Exactly, I just can't see how him being leader will work to be honest.

You may be a bit surprised to learn that I agree with you. Corbyn is the fly in the ointment; the man who will make people sit up and take a lot more notice of economic politics and a guy who may even change the face of British politics for the better but thus far, I don't see him as a leader.

This is a man who's spent his entire political career fighting a cause. He's the man in the shadows who does good without the desire for recognition. He was never meant to be a front man.

[Livia]

You may be a bit surprised to learn that I agree with you. Corbyn is the fly in the ointment; the man who will make people sit up and take a lot more notice of economic politics and a guy who may even change the face of British politics for the better but thus far, I don't see him as a leader.

This is a man who's spent his entire political career fighting a cause. He's the man in the shadows who does good without the desire for recognition. He was never meant to be a front man.

He's the man that stood and turned his back on British troops returning from Iraq - a war HIS party sent them to. When I think of him, I think of that moment.

[DemolitionRed]

We don't have a fascist government. And it's a bit of a generalisation to assume everyone else in politics is a hooray Henry or a Champagne Charlie. He's an ordinary little man with left wing views better suited to the 1970s.

Then what are they if not fascist?

[Livia]

Then what are they if not fascist?

This is a ridiculous conversation, you obviously aren't clear what the term means.

[DemolitionRed]

He's the man that stood and turned his back on British troops returning from Iraq - a war HIS party sent them to. When I think of him, I think of that moment.

He turned his back on the government who sent these men to Iraq. He was the same man who formed the anti-war march in 2003. I collected one of his posters on that march, I chose the one that said something like, "Don't sacrifice our troops for a lie."

[DemolitionRed]

This is a ridiculous conversation, you obviously aren't clear what the term means.

On the contrary, I know exactly what fascism means
http://www.earlhamsociologypages.co.uk/fasccom.htm
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2014/09/30/poll-is-the-conservative-party-moving-towards-fascism/

[Livia]

On the contrary, I know exactly what fascism means
http://www.earlhamsociologypages.co.uk/fasccom.htm
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2014/09/30/poll-is-the-conservative-party-moving-towards-fascism/

Like I have time to read that lot...

I worked for the Conservatives, I know how they're made up, I know that the socio-economic background of plenty of Tory MPs would surprise you. If you think they're all fascists then that's your opinion, however laughable.

Maybe a more pertinent question to ask would be, are Labour moving to Communism?

[Livia]

He turned his back on the government who sent these men to Iraq. He was the same man who formed the anti-war march in 2003. I collected one of his posters on that march, I chose the one that said something like, "Don't sacrifice our troops for a lie."

Whatever he does now is cancelled out by the disrespect he showed our soldiers on that day. All the slogans in the world won't change that. Maybe he should have produced a poster with "hate the war, support our troops"... but... no.

[DemolitionRed]

Like I have time to read that lot...

In that case you wouldn’t have time to read a very long reply about why I see the Conservative party as fascists either.

I worked for the Conservatives, I know how they're made up, I know that the socio-economic background of plenty of Tory MPs would surprise you. If you think they're all fascists then that's your opinion, however laughable.

Grays Inn? We may well know one another.

I’m not talking about individual conservative MP’s/Lords, I’m talking about the Conservative parties fundamental principles in running government.

Maybe a more pertinent question to ask would be, are Labour moving to Communism?

No, though Corybyn clearly has some Marxist ideologies. That though, doesn’t make him a fan of communism. He’s clearly a Socialist but Marxism is based on many things from Engelism, Hegelianism Feurbachism and even the ancient druids.

Communism was only a small section of Maxist ideas; just a very small portion of something much bigger. The Communism we have seen practised was open to corruption and manipulation which was never included in Marx theory of equality.

[Livia]

Like I have time to read that lot...

In that case you wouldn’t have time to read a very long reply about why I see the Conservative party as fascists either.

I worked for the Conservatives, I know how they're made up, I know that the socio-economic background of plenty of Tory MPs would surprise you. If you think they're all fascists then that's your opinion, however laughable.

Grays Inn? We may well know one another.

I’m not talking about individual conservative MP’s/Lords, I’m talking about the Conservative parties fundamental principles in running government.

Maybe a more pertinent question to ask would be, are Labour moving to Communism?

No, though Corybyn clearly has some Marxist ideologies. That though, doesn’t make him a fan of communism. He’s clearly a Socialist but Marxism is based on many things from Engelism, Hegelianism Feurbachism and even the ancient druids.

Communism was only a small section of Maxist ideas; just a very small portion of something much bigger. The Communism we have seen practised was open to corruption and manipulation which was never included in Marx theory of equality.


We're going to have to disagree on this. Maybe my background makes me feel a little prickly about calling people fascists when they are clearly not. They may be a lot of things... but not that.

I never worked at any of the Inns of Court. I worked in the constituency and in Parliament. I now work for the government concerned with International Law.

[DemolitionRed]

We're going to have to disagree on this. Maybe my background makes me feel a little prickly about calling people fascists when they are clearly not. They may be a lot of things... but not that.

I never worked at any of the Inns of Court. I worked in the constituency and in Parliament. I now work for the government concerned with International Law.

I'm happy to disagree, debate wouldn't be the same without it :). Perhaps though, we should also be cautious about calling Corbyn and his followers Communists.

Thanks for clarifying. I've never worked within Parliament, though I've been to a few gatherings there.

[joeysteele]

If he doesn't feel comfortable with people who aren't in his personal social class, he should get the hell out of politics.

I must ask why.

Should politicians always just have to conform to the starchy norm of the stuff they have to do as politicians.

Should we only have politicians who agree totally with the establishment and all the pathetic and false sickening observances at overpriced functions such as this one they had for the Chinese leader.

If that is so, why don't we just have robots as politicians and not people who think and feel, who can draw on their lifetimes experiences, no matter how long or short their lives have been so far.

That really would be a sad day for politics in the UK if that was ever the expected case as to being a politician.

[bots]

I must ask why.

Should politicians always just have to conform to the starchy norm of the stuff they have to do as politicians.

Should we only have politicians who agree totally with the establishment and all the pathetic and false sickening observances at overpriced functions such as this one they had for the Chinese leader.

If that is so, why don't we just have robots as politicians and not people who think and feel, who can draw on their lifetimes experiences, no matter how long or short their lives have been so far.

That really would be a sad day for politics in the UK if that was ever the expected case as to being a politician.


Its not a matter of agreeing, its a basic human skill to get on with those different from yourself. If a party leader doesn't have that in his skill set then he isn't going to be successful. From the look of it Jeremy isn't very good on that front.

[Kizzy]

Its not a matter of agreeing, its a basic human skill to get on with those different from yourself. If a party leader doesn't have that in his skill set then he isn't going to be successful. From the look of it Jeremy isn't very good on that front.

He's an excellent diplomat, it's the one thing that his detractors usually use as a stick to beat him with.

[Livia]

I must ask why.

Should politicians always just have to conform to the starchy norm of the stuff they have to do as politicians.

Should we only have politicians who agree totally with the establishment and all the pathetic and false sickening observances at overpriced functions such as this one they had for the Chinese leader.

If that is so, why don't we just have robots as politicians and not people who think and feel, who can draw on their lifetimes experiences, no matter how long or short their lives have been so far.

That really would be a sad day for politics in the UK if that was ever the expected case as to being a politician.

You know, Joey, that a politician, once elected, is there to represent EVERY person in his constituency, not just the ones who voted for him. If he doesn't feel comfortable dealing with people who aren't in his own social class then he has a problem, doesn't he. He can't pick and choose who he represents. Just like he can't pick and choose which one of his duties he undertakes if he ever makes it to PM.

It's been made clear in this thread that it's okay to take the piss out of people if they're upper class; they're a Champagne Charlie or a Hooray Henry. Try being that insulting because someone is working class... people would be up in arms.

[Kizzy]

Where is the evidence that Corbyn isn't comfortable or incapable of mixing freely with all the electorate?
I feel the debate is being dragged down a dead end here.

[arista]

Today at PMQ's loads of other MP's of all party's
did the Corbyn gimmick of naming a email Question.

Dave told Jeremy
that many on the Labour side
back the Nuclear Defense Plan
but sadly Jeremy wants to get into the De Lorean Car
to go back to 1985 as he is now the leader of CND
http://news.sky.com/story/1571115/jeremy-corbyn-privately-addresses-cnd-members

PMQ's ran 8mins over , shocking


Its so sad Joey that he is Anti Nuke Weapons
Labour will remove him

[joeysteele]

You know, Joey, that a politician, once elected, is there to represent EVERY person in his constituency, not just the ones who voted for him. If he doesn't feel comfortable dealing with people who aren't in his own social class then he has a problem, doesn't he. He can't pick and choose who he represents. Just like he can't pick and choose which one of his duties he undertakes if he ever makes it to PM.

It's been made clear in this thread that it's okay to take the piss out of people if they're upper class; they're a Champagne Charlie or a Hooray Henry. Try being that insulting because someone is working class... people would be up in arms.

Well Corbyn was not my choice as leader and in fact maybe I would still prefer another but I do know,yes know, for sure that he has done a fair amount of good and been of assistance for Conservative, Lib Dem and other voters in his vast 30+ years as an MP in his constituency as well as the Labour supporters there.

I would feel massively uncomfortable around David Cameron because he is a man I see as a political liar and not to be trusted at all.
However I would tolerate being around him and do not see at all why that should bar me from being an MP either.

Once you start saying what 'kind' of person should be an MP you go down a slippery road.
I cannot stand David Cameron but his voters elect him to Parliament and as a democrat I accept that.

That does not mean I would be dancing round the room at the prospect of having to mix with him, whether I was a humble MP or a leader of a party either..

[DemolitionRed]

@It's been made clear in this thread that it's okay to take the piss out of people if they're upper class; they're a Champagne Charlie or a Hooray Henry. Try being that insulting because someone is working class... people would be up in arms.

FFS Livia, this site is full of booming disapproval towards anyone who is in the public domain. People don’t hold back in calling these people things like “the dregs of society” “slags” and “worthless scum.”

I’m not sorry I offended you because I’ve seen you get offended on numerous occasions and I don’t think for a moment that you're overly sensitive. There are fragile people who get offended because they want the world to revolve around joie de vivre and people who say they are offended because they want to show some sort of authority. Well I bow down to nobody love and so I’ll leave you with your right to remain offended and continue to express myself in the way I feel appropriate to topic.

[JoshBB]

Its so sad Joey that he is Anti Nuke Weapons
Labour will remove him

When he has almost 60% of first preference votes out of 4 candidates? Don't think they will. They would lose so many votes to the greens, and possibly a few candidates.

[bots]

When he has almost 60% of first preference votes out of 4 candidates? Don't think they will. They would lose so many votes to the greens, and possibly a few candidates.

He doesn't have that level of support among labour mp's, nothing like it, and that's what counts. If his fellow mp's disagree with him or won't work with him, he will be ousted. The whole thing about opening the vote for a leader up to the masses is a joke because it is completely meaningless

[Kizzy]

He doesn't have that level of support among labour mp's, nothing like it, and that's what counts. If his fellow mp's disagree with him or won't work with him, he will be ousted. The whole thing about opening the vote for a leader up to the masses is a joke because it is completely meaningless

Will he, on what basis?
They will have to have some good reasoning to oust this democratically elected leader who speaks for and from the mouths of the electorate directly to the PM.
They will either have to get very creative, devious or just plain lie.

[bots]

Will he, on what basis?
They will have to have some good reasoning to oust this democratically elected leader who speaks for and from the mouths of the electorate directly to the PM.
They will either have to get very creative, devious or just plain lie.

Wait and see, I don't think it will be long before it happens.

[joeysteele]

Like I have time to read that lot...

I worked for the Conservatives, I know how they're made up, I know that the socio-economic background of plenty of Tory MPs would surprise you. If you think they're all fascists then that's your opinion, however laughable.

Maybe a more pertinent question to ask would be, are Labour moving to Communism?

Surprised to see that from you really.
The answer to that is a simple no. I would have no part at all in a party that was communist.
I find it sad that such is even inferred as a fear tactic.

While ignoring the people who are actually living in fear everyday under this govt as to what funds they have coming in which will be removed from them next,and unjustly at that too.

[bots]

[/B]

Surprised to see that from you really.
The answer to that is a simple no. I would have no part at all in a party that was communist.
I find it sad that such is even inferred as a fear tactic.

While ignoring the people who are actually living in fear everyday under this govt as to what funds they have coming in which will be removed from them next,and unjustly at that too.

With respect Joey, the vitriol that has been directed toward the conservatives and David Cameron in particular on this forum has been much much worse and in my opinion way over the top. We all have opinions, but I have been sickened by the levels that some will stoop to, to score a few political points.

[Kizzy]

With respect Joey, the vitriol that has been directed toward the conservatives and David Cameron in particular on this forum has been much much worse and in my opinion way over the top. We all have opinions, but I have been sickened by the levels that some will stoop to, to score a few political points.

Some have been accused of referring to all conservatives as reptiles... but that's never happened. As far as I can see all the criticism for the actions of the current and last govt was entirely justified, due to what they have done whilst in power. That is not true of Corbyn, his detractors have nothing to back up their opinions.

[lostalex]

If Hillary Loses in the US, maybe she can become labour leader in the UK?

does anyone know about the legality of this?

[joeysteele]

With respect Joey, the vitriol that has been directed toward the conservatives and David Cameron in particular on this forum has been much much worse and in my opinion way over the top. We all have opinions, but I have been sickened by the levels that some will stoop to, to score a few political points.

With respect again and I am I admit and proudly so one of the most critical of David Cameron, I am judging him on what he has done with power as PM, how he has lied and broken pledge after pledge.
I am judging on what he has done with power, not assumed what he may do with it.

I may well do the same as I indeed would have concerning Tony Blair for instance with any party leader that is as untrustworthy as David Cameron is, in my opinion.
However to make extraordinary statement od Labour moving to communism when decent Labour people would never allow that to happen.
If you consider that fair then I for sure do not.

I would fight against communism with my last breath.
As a now Labour supporter I found that offensive.
So the fear tactic to come may be, not only are Labour supporters loony lefties, but possibly even communists now too.

[DemolitionRed]

With respect Joey, the vitriol that has been directed toward the conservatives and David Cameron in particular on this forum has been much much worse and in my opinion way over the top. We all have opinions, but I have been sickened by the levels that some will stoop to, to score a few political points.

This isn't about scoring points, its about politics; its about people who are disgruntled with the Right or not happy with the Left. Whilst there may be an amount of naivety going on in this thread, there is absolutely noting personal going on, unless someone's sleeping with the PM.

Honestly bitontheside, if you find some of the things said here sickening, don't venture into a political forum site because those places do get seriously nasty towards one another. Debates are often knocked sideways to make room for unacceptable personal insults but nobody seems to care. This place is a refreshing place to debate because it doesn't require a thick skin.

Where is debate without 'strong' differing opinions?. People have every right to feel angry towards the Conservatives. We are all aware that within 3 months of the election Cameron had broken 9 persuasive election promises. Even a conservative supporter has to question how the government can get away with this. He’s taken his voters for fools.

[JoshBB]

If Hillary Loses in the US, maybe she can become labour leader in the UK?

does anyone know about the legality of this?

Jesus Christ, please no.

Hilary would be more suited to the conservatives in all honesty

[Livia]

[/B]

Surprised to see that from you really.
The answer to that is a simple no. I would have no part at all in a party that was communist.
I find it sad that such is even inferred as a fear tactic.

While ignoring the people who are actually living in fear everyday under this govt as to what funds they have coming in which will be removed from them next,and unjustly at that too.

The only reason I said that joey, is the claim that the Conservatives are fascists. The answer to both the fascist and the communist claims is, of course, no.

[Livia]

If Hillary Loses in the US, maybe she can become labour leader in the UK?

does anyone know about the legality of this?

She would have to be a British citizen. So... no.

[Kizzy]

The only reason I said that joey, is the claim that the Conservatives are fascists. The answer to both the fascist and the communist claims is, of course, no.

Get out of Government because he doesn't agree with fascism?

Where does this claim that conservatives are fascists?

[arista]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02529/01_19032536_3ae94a_2529615a.jpg

China has told JC to get Stuffed

From
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6698552/Corbyn-slapped-down-over-human-rights-banquet-threat.html

[joeysteele]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02529/01_19032536_3ae94a_2529615a.jpg

China has told JC to get Stuffed

From
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6698552/Corbyn-slapped-down-over-human-rights-banquet-threat.html

He will not be bothered about that at all.

[arista]

He will not be bothered about that at all.
Of course


He can Never be UK PM


Simply because he will not have Nuke Weapons

Is so sad

[joeysteele]

Of course


He can Never be UK PM


Simply because he will not have Nuke Weapons

Is so sad

I am not so sure about that now, although I still do not see him leading Labour in 2020.
However I can see a lot of his policies remaining.
He will have changed Labours agenda even moreso if local election results go his way, if he does good in Wales and shows any signs of a turnaround, no matter how small in Scotland.

I am in no way that despondent about the 2020 election I hold a view there could be a real blacklash against the Conservatives as there was in 1997 with a whole new different way looked for by the voters.
More on 1945 lines than 1997,policies wise.

[Kizzy]

Are you just going to reiterate that every 10 posts or so?

[DemolitionRed]

Of course


He can Never be UK PM


Simply because he will not have Nuke Weapons

Is so sad

People said the same about him leading the Labour party but here he is.

15th October opinion poll goes as follows: Con 38% (no change since last month), Lab 34% (+2) , Lib Dem 7% (-1), UKIP 11% (-2), Green 3% (nc). Goes to show that all this media scaremongering isn't working.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/daily-catch-up-is-this-referendum-like-1975-or-will-anti-politics-win-this-time-a6691771.html

Interesting that one of the Telegraphs latest headlines was about Corbyn being unpopular with the young:conf: What an absolute nonsense that is...its the young people of Britain that make up the growing trend towards the left in Britain and Corbyn has become the new darling of British left amongst college and university students alike. For the young people of today, Corbyn represents something much newer, fresher and clearer.

Let's see how far this goes in the next four years as the Tories get more and more worried about the Corbyn effect and attack him with more and more extreme comments. These may well work in Corbyn's favour.

[the truth]

People said the same about him leading the Labour party but here he is.

15th October opinion poll goes as follows: Con 38% (no change since last month), Lab 34% (+2) , Lib Dem 7% (-1), UKIP 11% (-2), Green 3% (nc). Goes to show that all this media scaremongering isn't working.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/daily-catch-up-is-this-referendum-like-1975-or-will-anti-politics-win-this-time-a6691771.html

Interesting that one of the Telegraphs latest headlines was about Corbyn being unpopular with the young:conf: What an absolute nonsense that is...its the young people of Britain that make up the growing trend towards the left in Britain and Corbyn has become the new darling of British left amongst college and university students alike. For the young people of today, Corbyn represents something much newer, fresher and clearer.

Let's see how far this goes in the next four years as the Tories get more and more worried about the Corbyn effect and attack him with more and more extreme comments. These may well work in Corbyn's favour.

hes got the edge with the young because he talks in simplistic terms about equality and poor people.
but the older people ask how is this going to be paid for and how do we know he wont bankrupt us like all other labour governments?

[DemolitionRed]

hes got the edge with the young because he talks in simplistic terms about equality and poor people.
but the older people ask how is this going to be paid for and how do we know he wont bankrupt us like all other labour governments?

But Labour didn't bankrupt us. Rightly or wrongly they bailed out the banks but what would of been the consequences of not doing that?. If the Conservatives had been running the country they would of followed that same sensible course. Gordon Brown steered this country through its deepest recession for eighty years and he didn't push our national debt anywhere near as high as what the Conservatives have done in the past 5+ years. Brown managed a recovery without high interest rates or high inflation and still managed to keep employment high.

Yes, Labour left us with a public debt to 68% of GDP but since the Conservatives took over, that debt now stands at 80% and economic growth and employment statistics have plummeted, the poor are being bled dry in the name of austerity and the economy is sitting on the brink of collapse.

The two biggest lies that Osborne and Cameron repeatedly tells the British public is, "We are still trying to get out of the mess that Labour created" and "we have managed to half the national debt"

[Kizzy]

But Labour didn't bankrupt us. Rightly or wrongly they bailed out the banks but what would of been the consequences of not doing that?. If the Conservatives had been running the country they would of followed that same sensible course. Gordon Brown steered this country through its deepest recession for eighty years and he didn't push our national debt anywhere near as high as what the Conservatives have done in the past 5+ years. Brown managed a recovery without high interest rates or high inflation and still managed to keep employment high.

Yes, Labour left us with a public debt to 68% of GDP but since the Conservatives took over, that debt now stands at 80% and economic growth and employment statistics have plummeted, the poor are being bled dry in the name of austerity and the economy is sitting on the brink of collapse.

The two biggest lies that Osborne and Cameron repeatedly tells the British public is, "We are still trying to get out of the mess that Labour created" and "we have managed to half the national debt"

And the same blinkered petty bourgeois keep repeating that mantra.

[the truth]

But Labour didn't bankrupt us. Rightly or wrongly they bailed out the banks but what would of been the consequences of not doing that?. If the Conservatives had been running the country they would of followed that same sensible course. Gordon Brown steered this country through its deepest recession for eighty years and he didn't push our national debt anywhere near as high as what the Conservatives have done in the past 5+ years. Brown managed a recovery without high interest rates or high inflation and still managed to keep employment high.

Yes, Labour left us with a public debt to 68% of GDP but since the Conservatives took over, that debt now stands at 80% and economic growth and employment statistics have plummeted, the poor are being bled dry in the name of austerity and the economy is sitting on the brink of collapse.

The two biggest lies that Osborne and Cameron repeatedly tells the British public is, "We are still trying to get out of the mess that Labour created" and "we have managed to half the national debt"

sensible course lol? that's the talking points all labour fans have swallowed
they were in charge of the country for 13 years and under their control , debt to gdp increased by 75% under labour...the nation went from a huge surplus to massive debts. the gap between rich and poor was bigger under labour than it had been for 200 years? the tories are cocking loads of things up, but at least the breeding for benefits culture is being reduced...the unemployment rate has fallen from 8.1% to 5.3% ....the economy has grown steadily. but I think the attacks on the disabled are sick and IDS should be locked away. he is scum. There are loads fo things going wrong, the landlord licensing and paying housing benefits to tenants is a disaster, the caving in to Europe is a disaster....theyre a very weak tory party. also the vat rise is insane anti economics. new labour though were even worse. illegal wars, lies , spin, no social housing massive nhs and care home scandals and cover ups and bankrupt trusts. unaccountable over paid council workers and bosses. endless waste and mismanagement, selling us out to the EU constitution. flogging our gold dirt cheap, deregulating the financial services and the bank fo England independence... the list goes on and on. they were a complete and utter disaster in every single way. they even failed to do anything for industry , failed to regulate the former publc services, bt, the trains, the gas the electric the water etc

there is a route for a labour comeback but they will need to find some morals, some heart some spirit some truth some balls and admit what a disaster they were

[the truth]

And the same blinkered petty bourgeois keep repeating that mantra.

because the disastrous new labour made it easy for them to do so

[Kizzy]

Ignoring the worldwide recession?

[DemolitionRed]

sensible course lol? that's the talking points all labour fans have swallowed
they were in charge of the country for 13 years and under their control , debt to gdp increased by 75% under labour...the nation went from a huge surplus to massive debts. the gap between rich and poor was bigger under labour than it had been for 200 years? the tories are cocking loads of things up, but at least the breeding for benefits culture is being reduced...the unemployment rate has fallen from 8.1% to 5.3% ....the economy has grown steadily. but I think the attacks on the disabled are sick and IDS should be locked away. he is scum. There are loads fo things going wrong, the landlord licensing and paying housing benefits to tenants is a disaster, the caving in to Europe is a disaster....theyre a very weak tory party. also the vat rise is insane anti economics. new labour though were even worse. illegal wars, lies , spin, no social housing massive nhs and care home scandals and cover ups and bankrupt trusts. unaccountable over paid council workers and bosses. endless waste and mismanagement, selling us out to the EU constitution. flogging our gold dirt cheap, deregulating the financial services and the bank fo England independence... the list goes on and on. they were a complete and utter disaster in every single way. they even failed to do anything for industry , failed to regulate the former publc services, bt, the trains, the gas the electric the water etc

there is a route for a labour comeback but they will need to find some morals, some heart some spirit some truth some balls and admit what a disaster they were


Its certainly not something I’ve swallowed. The stats are there if only we look in the right places and that doesn’t include main stream media. I’m sorry if my evidence conflicts with yours but would be interested in seeing your source/s

I’m no Labour tribalist or at least I wasn’t. I may well like some of Corbyn’s politics but I didn’t vote for Labour in the last election for obvious reasons and I didn’t vote for the Conservative because Osborne had already made Gordon Browns tenure look pretty competent in comparison to his mess.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/

http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn43.pdf

The truth is, Osborne borrowed more in between 2010 to 2013 than Labour did in 13 years.

[the truth]

Its certainly not something I’ve swallowed. The stats are there if only we look in the right places and that doesn’t include main stream media. I’m sorry if my evidence conflicts with yours but would be interested in seeing your source/s

I’m no Labour tribalist or at least I wasn’t. I may well like some of Corbyn’s politics but I didn’t vote for Labour in the last election for obvious reasons and I didn’t vote for the Conservative because Osborne had already made Gordon Browns tenure look pretty competent in comparison to his mess.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/

http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn43.pdf

The truth is, Osborne borrowed more in between 2010 to 2013 than Labour did in 13 years.



your potted knowledge is very dangerous
government spending as a percentage of gdp has fallen every year bar 1 since 2010, that shows our growth is increasing faster than our debts under the tories. we ae seeing them grow us out of a recession with jobs. 2 million plus jobs. that's people off benefits in work paying tax and being productive. that's the only way forward the ONLY way.

you try to take out the 2010 to 2015 in isolation. when in fact the mass of debts and financial disasters under new labour left a spiralling debt crisis which increased by 75% in their 13 years. and the house prices crashed to a state where millions had negative equity, the housing market is vastly stronger now. You don't stop a financial tidal wave like that overnight. the fact we have 2 million new jobs (thats more new jobs than the rest of Europe put together) and unemployment falling by 3% you choose to ignore too? plus the fact we have seen steady growth for years. inflation has been kept low as have interest rates. Ive already stated how many things the tories have done wrong. If new labour had won in 2010 God help us we would have been back to the 3 day working week again, 100,000s of house repossessions and the lights would have gone out again like the 1970s.

Its great to hold them to account and battle them in key areas. especially where we see disabled people mistreated. I do find the holier than thou preachings of labour nauseating though. when you consider the horrific abuses they ignored and allowed to continue under their disastrous tenure. 20,000 pls abused children in Rotherham alone, 1000s dying of thirst in hospitals like Stafford, the state of welsh hospitals under new labour....the illegal wars, the gold, the state of the police, the scrapping of military hospitals, ...etc etc yet they spent more time debating fox hunting than most of those issues put together ffs....simply because a lot fo them are driven by 2 things 1) the lust for power fame and money and 2) the envy and hatred of rich people

new labour doubled doctors nhs pay they massively increased the administrators working att he trusts, enormous pay rises for the bosses and even paid them double time at weekends.....this nonsense is set in stone. now the tories rightfully will tear it up and put them on a 7 day a week nhs staggered shifts like everyone else

[DemolitionRed]

As I said before, I wasn't pro Labour, so if you think this is some sort of holier than though preaching from the far left, just say so and I'll move on and debate this no further with you.

Clearly Labour made some poor choices, that's why I didn't vote for them; but if you're going to look at how an economy got into the mess it did, then you have to look at the evolution and buoyancy of that economy over the years.

We can’t just suggest that Labour moved in and spent all our money! When Labour entered Government, they discovered they were inheriting a large structural fiscal deficit, rising public debt, low net investment and a falling public sector net worth. Just like today, the Conservatives hadn’t permitted any thorough Parliamentary scrutiny and the consequences of that were, the new Government were left to sort it out.

The debt crisis wasn’t created by overspending, the global crash did that. Ten years in and before the global crash Labour debt stood at 37.3%. That’s lower than when Labour was elected. Those charts show that in the 80s that debt stood at 46% and in 1940 it was 200%, so they are irrelevant really.

If Labour had tightened our budget during the global crash, that would of further confounded our economy. A debt crisis isn’t created by overspending; public spending is necessary evil to get an economy back on track. Yes, Labour did spend 75% more than the conservatives to recover an economy that would of otherwise fallen into turmoil; I wonder how a Conservative government would handle a global crash.

[Kizzy]

What a cracking summation DR thanks!

I hope some of that seeps in as the conservatives have cottoned on to the fact that if you repeat lies long enough and loud enough they are taken as gospel.

[bots]

The deflection is very amusing

[joeysteele]

But Labour didn't bankrupt us. Rightly or wrongly they bailed out the banks but what would of been the consequences of not doing that?. If the Conservatives had been running the country they would of followed that same sensible course. Gordon Brown steered this country through its deepest recession for eighty years and he didn't push our national debt anywhere near as high as what the Conservatives have done in the past 5+ years. Brown managed a recovery without high interest rates or high inflation and still managed to keep employment high.

Yes, Labour left us with a public debt to 68% of GDP but since the Conservatives took over, that debt now stands at 80% and economic growth and employment statistics have plummeted, the poor are being bled dry in the name of austerity and the economy is sitting on the brink of collapse.

The two biggest lies that Osborne and Cameron repeatedly tells the British public is, "We are still trying to get out of the mess that Labour created" and "we have managed to half the national debt"

Brilliant and fair post, also as to you asking what if the Conservatives had been in when the 'global' financial crash hit.
Things likely would have been far worse since between 2005 and 2008, the Conservative opposition was moaning at the Labour govt for regulating the Banks,.'too much'.
The Conservatives under David Cameron wanted the Banks regulated far less, which would have created an even bigger mess to deal with.

Really good post DemolitionRed lost on many sadly who allow the lie that Labour bankrupted Britain to thrive and not address that at all.

[Kizzy]

A good example would be the 12 billion of austerity being clawed in today, if we were governed economically in a similar vein back in the grip of the worldwide recession would it be 20 billion? ...more?

[the truth]

What a cracking summation DR thanks!

I hope some of that seeps in as the conservatives have cottoned on to the fact that if you repeat lies long enough and loud enough they are taken as gospel.

yes that's what labour did, lie repeatedly about wars hospitals finances public services, abuses of children, immigration, etc etc for 13 years and we slowly found out the hporrific truths...1 million dead innocent Iraqis, 20,000 kids abused in Rotherham, 1000 people starved to death in Stafford hospital, bankruptcy, sold the gold dirt cheap etc etc etc all of that was the daily mails fault riught? those nasty journalists daring to report the truth

[Livia]

The deflection is very amusing

Isn't it.

[the truth]

Brilliant and fair post, also as to you asking what if the Conservatives had been in when the 'global' financial crash hit.
Things likely would have been far worse since between 2005 and 2008, the Conservative opposition was moaning at the Labour govt for regulating the Banks,.'too much'.
The Conservatives under David Cameron wanted the Banks regulated far less, which would have created an even bigger mess to deal with.

Really good post DemolitionRed lost on many sadly who allow the lie that Labour bankrupted Britain to thrive and not address that at all.

Hypothetical nonsense...labour spent tens of billions on killing a million innocent people in an illegal war, they created a disastrous nhs of waste and mismanagement abuse and endless cover ups. still going in nhs wales. they created a breed for benefits culture where kids felt their only way out of the pverty trap was to breed for benefits. they covered up endless massive abuses such as Rotherham where the social worlers and police say they felt too scared to speak out due to political correctness? the list goes on. I worked in banking, labour allowed endless enormous banking takeovers and mergers. their deregulations were an absolute disaster to the point where the banks were loaning out 10 times peoples wages. property crashed under labour, now its grown hugely since. the tories are awful too but blaming them for new labours absolutely horrific crimes against humanity and the people of the UK is simply deluded and obscene. new labour are war criminals and one day hopefully some of them will be jailed for their horrific crimes

[the truth]

Isn't it.

on both sides , its horrific

[Kizzy]

The deflection is very amusing

The deflection of what specifically?

[empire]

the truth is right, how could anyone with half a brain not see that Ed and his gang where hopelessly out of date, the labour party actively encouraged lazy,idle people to go on benefits and paid out so much that it made working unprofitable, under new labour 500,000 new jobs where created in public sector, in other words, local councils, the public sector does not generate income, it spend income, new labour had plenty of warning of what was happening in the 2014 by elections, Ed and his so called advisers chose to bury their heads in the sand and assumed that their, traditional labour voters would vote for them in the G elections, but half of them did not, it will take corbyn 20 years to repair the party for the next leader who should come from a working class background, someone who knows what we want, not someone from a posh rich background who enforces PC left wing nonsense on people who want to find work not being stuck on the dole,

[DemolitionRed]

yes that's what labour did, lie repeatedly about wars hospitals finances public services, abuses of children, immigration, etc etc for 13 years and we slowly found out the hporrific truths...1 million dead innocent Iraqis, 20,000 kids abused in Rotherham, 1000 people starved to death in Stafford hospital, bankruptcy, sold the gold dirt cheap etc etc etc all of that was the daily mails fault riught? those nasty journalists daring to report the truth

New Labour were pretty diabolical and our present conservative Government are equally guilty but that probably needs its own thread.

Selling 400 tons of gold stock was in my opinion a foolish move. If Geoffrey Howe had sold off half our gold when it was at an all time high instead of sitting on it and waiting for bullion price to fall, I would of praised such a move but during the global crisis, Brown along with Switzerland, Belgium and the Dutch all raced ahead to sell off our gold at a rock bottom price and consequently made very little from it. He and those other nations drove down gold prices to an all time low and although I’m sure he/they had reason for doing this, I’ve yet to understand why.

Lets keep in mind that Treasury gold stock is basically a Government asset…it’s a hedge fund and a volatile one at that. We must be careful not to confuse it with the Crown Jewels (something that must never be sold).

What I do understand is, Brown invested most of that gold revenue in the US Treasuries, Euro gov’t bonds and Japanese gov’t bonds, so whilst we no longer see gold as a British treasury asset, it is still a Government asset, be it in paper, that gives us/the Conservative party a return.

[joeysteele]

Hypothetical nonsense...labour spent tens of billions on killing a million innocent people in an illegal war, they created a disastrous nhs of waste and mismanagement abuse and endless cover ups. still going in nhs wales. they created a breed for benefits culture where kids felt their only way out of the pverty trap was to breed for benefits. they covered up endless massive abuses such as Rotherham where the social worlers and police say they felt too scared to speak out due to political correctness? the list goes on. I worked in banking, labour allowed endless enormous banking takeovers and mergers. their deregulations were an absolute disaster to the point where the banks were loaning out 10 times peoples wages. property crashed under labour, now its grown hugely since. the tories are awful too but blaming them for new labours absolutely horrific crimes against humanity and the people of the UK is simply deluded and obscene. new labour are war criminals and one day hopefully some of them will be jailed for their horrific crimes


You are back to calling others opinions nonsense again I see.

I will try once more.when you can be bothered to be reasoned and not insulting to other members then respond to my posts otherwise whenever you do, I will just ignore you.
And for goodness sake how many times are you going to raise the NHS as to Labour,we all know you have a grievances,justified, with the NHS but to try to derail every thread,every chance you get with it is tedious.
The NHS now under this govt is in absolute chaos after only 5 years again.

And it is a well known fact too, that David Cameron as leader of the opposition between 2005 and 2008 wanted the Banks regulated less.

Something you should know fully well if you worked in Banking too.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/10/25/426259/default/v1/dmcover-1-442x589.jpg

[DemolitionRed]

You are back to calling others opinions nonsense again I see.

I will try once more.when you can be bothered to be reasoned and not insulting to other members then respond to my posts otherwise whenever you do, I will just ignore you.
And for goodness sake how many times are you going to raise the NHS as to Labour,we all know you have a grievances,justified, with the NHS but to try to derail every thread,every chance you get with it is tedious.
The NHS now under this govt is in absolute chaos after only 5 years again.

And it is a well known fact too, that David Cameron as leader of the opposition between 2005 and 2008 wanted the Banks regulated less.

Something you should know fully well if you worked in Banking too.

Its the one liners that get me Joey. The ones who have so little to say but ensure the few words they utter have a condescending tone to them. :rolleyes:

[Kizzy]

Why have you posted this in a thread about Jeremy Corbyn?

[arista]

Why have you posted this in a thread about Jeremy Corbyn?

Because JC wants him arrested

[arista]

Todays at PMQ's
had JC asking the same question six times
the last one featured a Email question from "Karen"
It was a simple question "Will people be worse off after the Tax Credit changes in April"


The PM could not answer that
he even called Labour - Un Electable
and the Labour Piers as Un Elected.

Its under review etc

[Kizzy]

Todays at PMQ's
had JC asking the same question six times
the last one featured a Email question from "Karen"
It was a simple question "Will people be worse off after the Tax Credit changes in April"


The PM could not answer that
he even called Labour - Un Electable
and the Labour Piers as Un Elected.

Its under review etc

Gah... I missed PMQs! :(

[arista]

Gah... I missed PMQs! :(


Its repeated on the parliament ch late night


Also on BBCNews site later

[the truth]

You are back to calling others opinions nonsense again I see.

I will try once more.when you can be bothered to be reasoned and not insulting to other members then respond to my posts otherwise whenever you do, I will just ignore you.
And for goodness sake how many times are you going to raise the NHS as to Labour,we all know you have a grievances,justified, with the NHS but to try to derail every thread,every chance you get with it is tedious.
The NHS now under this govt is in absolute chaos after only 5 years again.

And it is a well known fact too, that David Cameron as leader of the opposition between 2005 and 2008 wanted the Banks regulated less.

Something you should know fully well if you worked in Banking too.

ignore the truth if you like, that's what new labour did for 13 years

[joeysteele]

ignore the truth if you like, that's what new labour did for 13 years

I will do so and even moreso when it is not a balanced or really accurate truth of sorts.
However I think political history is littered with govts of both parties ignoring truth at some time or other, not just one party.
Even if you choose to ignore or avoid that fact.

[the truth]

I will do so and even moreso when it is not a balanced or really accurate truth of sorts.
However I think political history is littered with govts of both parties ignoring truth at some time or other, not just one party.
Even if you choose to ignore or avoid that fact.

Every government ends in failure , but new labour ended in catastrophe

[Kizzy]

Well Jeremy Corbyn isn't new Labour, and Joey is right no Government over the last 50yrs can say they had a positive impact on this country.

[the truth]

Well Jeremy Corbyn isn't new Labour, and Joey is right no Government over the last 50yrs can say they had a positive impact on this country.

I disasgree , that's way way too simplistic and sweeping a statement. New labour were a disaster and worse than any of those governments
as for corbyn he may not be new labour but there are 100s of those evil failures left

[Kizzy]

I disasgree , that's way way too simplistic and sweeping a statement. New labour were a disaster and worse than any of those governments
as for corbyn he may not be new labour but there are 100s of those evil failures left

Yes well that's not the onus of the thread is it, Start another for your anti new Labour agenda maybe?

[the truth]

Yes well that's not the onus of the thread is it, Start another for your anti new Labour agenda maybe?

Good attempt to wriggle out of a lost argument lol what I said is just as relevant to the thread as your replies , except my post is more accurate

[Kizzy]

It has nothing to do with the thread however, I haven't lost anything, your opinion is as valid as mine and neither are right or wrong... so there's nothing to wriggle from.

[the truth]

It has nothing to do with the thread however, I haven't lost anything, your opinion is as valid as mine and neither are right or wrong... so there's nothing to wriggle from.

My opinion is more valid because what I said is correct. what you said is wrong, then you tried to wriggle out of it and change the subject by wrongly claiming my replies were off topic. epic fail

[empire]

labour supporters have too take a large part of the blame for the parties decline, two years after the iraqi invasion, they still voted for them in 2005, and followed blairs phoney talk, people clicked on, when white girls where sexually abused by males of pakistani descent, and they realized that the labour government, and its run councils, hid it so badly, with media and news outlet suppression, it made them think twice, to ever trust them again, why did they suffer a really bad defeat in the G election of this year, well there are many reason's, where today do they get there votes from, well, brain dead voters, left wing middle class students, work shy, marxist thinkers, first 2nd 3rd generation immigrants, left wing teachers, left wing journalists and so on, labour supporters will never admit that even the poorly paid in britain will ever vote for them again, they know longer have grassroot support that kept them in power for 13 years,

[DemolitionRed]

labour supporters have too take a large part of the blame for the parties decline, two years after the iraqi invasion, they still voted for them in 2005, and followed blairs phoney talk, people clicked on, when white girls where sexually abused by males of pakistani descent, and they realized that the labour government, and its run councils, hid it so badly, with media and news outlet suppression, it made them think twice, to ever trust them again, why did they suffer a really bad defeat in the G election of this year, well there are many reason's, where today do they get there votes from, well, brain dead voters, left wing middle class students, work shy, marxist thinkers, first 2nd 3rd generation immigrants, left wing teachers, left wing journalists and so on, labour supporters will never admit that even the poorly paid in britain will ever vote for them again, they know longer have grassroot support that kept them in power for 13 years,

Eh? There was nothing left wing or Marxist about New Labour :conf:

I'd be interested to know why so many working class Brits vote Conservative?

[kirklancaster]

Eh? There was nothing left wing or Marxist about New Labour :conf:

I'd be interested to know why so many working class Brits vote Conservative?

With the media campaign of lies to demonise UKIP being so successful, the Tories were deemed the lesser of two evils. "Better The Devil You Know etc,"

[DemolitionRed]

With the media campaign of lies to demonise UKIP being so successful, the Tories were deemed the lesser of two evils. "Better The Devil You Know etc,"

yep, the last elections were a shambles.
For a large majority of voters, their brief knowledge on politics comes from the paper the read.

I found this and thought it was quite funny:

Yes, Prime Minster...Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers:
The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country, the Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country, The Times is read by people who actually do run the country, The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country, The Financial Times is read by people who own the country, the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.
What about the people who read the Sun? Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

[kirklancaster]

yep, the last elections were a shambles.
For a large majority of voters, their brief knowledge on politics comes from the paper the read.

I found this and thought it was quite funny:

Yes, Prime Minster...Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers:
The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country, the Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country, The Times is read by people who actually do run the country, The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country, The Financial Times is read by people who own the country, the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.
What about the people who read the Sun? Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Northern Monkey]

yep, the last elections were a shambles.
For a large majority of voters, their brief knowledge on politics comes from the paper the read.

I found this and thought it was quite funny:

Yes, Prime Minster...Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers:
The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country, the Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country, The Times is read by people who actually do run the country, The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country, The Financial Times is read by people who own the country, the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.
What about the people who read the Sun? Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.Brilliant:laugh:

[joeysteele]

I disasgree , that's way way too simplistic and sweeping a statement. New labour were a disaster and worse than any of those governments
as for corbyn he may not be new labour but there are 100s of those evil failures left

Labour presided over 10 years of unprecedented growth, no recessions or hint of any, they did invest heavily in the NHS and despite the errors of some hospitals and trusts,the NHS was in a far better place in 2010 then the crippled state it was in in 1997 after a whole 18 years of unbroken Conservative failure as to it.

Labour also brought in the £200 + winter fuel allowance for the elderly and most vulnerable and increased the cold weather payments from the paltry less than £9 they were under the Conservatives to £25.

Just to name a few,I won't go on because this post will be irrelevantly dismissed by you likely in your selective clouded view of the last Labour Govt.

I see you never came back to me to admit the Conservatives would have reduced regulation on the Banks between 2005 and 2008, which clearly would have made the end result worse than it even was when the global crash hit.

All govts do good and bad when in power, you can only highlight all the negatives as to the last Labour govt however in my view your selective bias against them is often very short on actual fact.
I am likely wasting my time in this post as I really see little point in trying to reason with someone who just insults others and describes their posts as nonsense.

I do see a lot of right in what you say and when I do I support you and tell you I do but when you fire back at me that what I say is nonsense, not only is that disrespectful but it is downright insulting to me and to the others you try to do it to as well.
Astounds me at times how you get away with being so disrespectful.

[joeysteele]

It has nothing to do with the thread however, I haven't lost anything, your opinion is as valid as mine and neither are right or wrong... so there's nothing to wriggle from.

Wasting your time Kizzy, talk to me instead.:joker:

You are right and we back up what we say with right truths not formed ones.

[Kizzy]

I will Joey, all those duped by the Conservatives at the last election, we promise not to say 'I told you so' don't we?
;)

[arista]

I will Joey, all those duped by the Conservatives at the last election, we promise not to say 'I told you so' don't we?
;)


all those That refused to back Miliband
thats what went down Kizzy

[Northern Monkey]

The problem with Labour is that they are yet to put up a decent leader with decent and realistic values.That is why the Tories won the GE and will win the next if Labour don't sort out their identity crisis and get real.

[the truth]

Eh? There was nothing left wing or Marxist about New Labour :conf:

I'd be interested to know why so many working class Brits vote Conservative?

2 million new jobs?
less intereference in their everyday lives
lower taxes
less regulation for small businesses
more money into the nhs in England
less stealth taxes
less bashing landlords simply to steal their money
no illegal invasions of sovereign nations
gdp growth

that's just for starters

[the truth]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;8253978]Labour presided over 10 years of unprecedented growth, no recessions or hint of any, they did invest heavily in the NHS and despite the errors of some hospitals and trusts,the NHS was in a far better place in 2010 then the crippled state it was in in 1997 after a whole 18 years of unbroken Conservative failure as to it.

- the nhs had more scandals than ever under new labour, 1000s died from neglect, 25000 a year died from undiagnosed blood clots they actually picked up in uk hospitals, mrsa was at 70 times the rate of Scandinavian countries....much of the extra money was wasted on middle management, doubling doctors and chief executives pay, shocking death rates over the weekends where 10s of thousands of extra people would die, you couldn't even get scanned on weekends... and new labour ignored ALL of this because they were sucking up the the medical unions


Labour also brought in the £200 + winter fuel allowance for the elderly and most vulnerable and increased the cold weather payments from the paltry less than £9 they were under the Conservatives to £25.

£200? whats that going to achieve? parking went up everywhere, stealth taxes went up, the economy went down...the abuses of the elderly went up in hospitals and care homes and the cover ups as we saw with councils like Rotherham went through the roof....new labour were too busy arguing about fox hunting and gay marriage as the economy collapsed, the moral fibe of the country collapsed, as the elderly were ignored neglected and abused, oh and we killed a million innocent people abroad.


Just to name a few,I won't go on because this post will be irrelevantly dismissed by you likely in your selective clouded view of the last Labour Govt.


I thought you were against personal attacks, hypocrite


I see you never came back to me to admit the Conservatives would have reduced regulation on the Banks between 2005 and 2008, which clearly would have made the end result worse than it even was when the global crash hit.


How can I admit something that never happened? that's a desperate hypothetical load of nonsense. new labour lied and spun and took us into an illegal war. the worse foreign policy in british history and instead of admitting how horrific it was you want to blame it on the tories, get real



All govts do good and bad when in power, you can only highlight all the negatives as to the last Labour govt however in my view your selective bias against them is often very short on actual fact.


my list is 100% FACT

I am likely wasting my time in this post as I really see little point in trying to reason with someone who just insults others and describes their posts as nonsense.

You've insulted me. Im speaking truth , youre in denial



I do see a lot of right in what you say and when I do I support you and tell you I do but when you fire back at me that what I say is nonsense, not only is that disrespectful but it is downright insulting to me and to the others you try to do it to as well.

If I agree with something you say I will say so...If not I will say so...Im the most honest person you will EVER meet

Astounds me at times how you get away with being so disrespectful.

again like new labour, you mistake the truth for being disrespectful
the truth often hurts but think how much it hurts the 1 million dead Iraqis the 1000000s of thousands who died from neglect or abuse in british hospitals or CARE homes....or the 20,000 children abused in Rotherham. your anger and disgust should be vented at the labour party

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;8253978]Labour presided over 10 years of unprecedented growth, no recessions or hint of any, they did invest heavily in the NHS and despite the errors of some hospitals and trusts,the NHS was in a far better place in 2010 then the crippled state it was in in 1997 after a whole 18 years of unbroken Conservative failure as to it.

- the nhs had more scandals than ever under new labour, 1000s died from neglect, 25000 a year died from undiagnosed blood clots they actually picked up in uk hospitals, mrsa was at 70 times the rate of Scandinavian countries....much of the extra money was wasted on middle management, doubling doctors and chief executives pay, shocking death rates over the weekends where 10s of thousands of extra people would die, you couldn't even get scanned on weekends... and new labour ignored ALL of this because they were sucking up the the medical unions


Labour also brought in the £200 + winter fuel allowance for the elderly and most vulnerable and increased the cold weather payments from the paltry less than £9 they were under the Conservatives to £25.

£200? whats that going to achieve? parking went up everywhere, stealth taxes went up, the economy went down...the abuses of the elderly went up in hospitals and care homes and the cover ups as we saw with councils like Rotherham went through the roof....new labour were too busy arguing about fox hunting and gay marriage as the economy collapsed, the moral fibe of the country collapsed, as the elderly were ignored neglected and abused, oh and we killed a million innocent people abroad.


Just to name a few,I won't go on because this post will be irrelevantly dismissed by you likely in your selective clouded view of the last Labour Govt.


I thought you were against personal attacks, hypocrite


I see you never came back to me to admit the Conservatives would have reduced regulation on the Banks between 2005 and 2008, which clearly would have made the end result worse than it even was when the global crash hit.


How can I admit something that never happened? that's a desperate hypothetical load of nonsense. new labour lied and spun and took us into an illegal war. the worse foreign policy in british history and instead of admitting how horrific it was you want to blame it on the tories, get real



All govts do good and bad when in power, you can only highlight all the negatives as to the last Labour govt however in my view your selective bias against them is often very short on actual fact.


my list is 100% FACT

I am likely wasting my time in this post as I really see little point in trying to reason with someone who just insults others and describes their posts as nonsense.

You've insulted me. Im speaking truth , youre in denial



I do see a lot of right in what you say and when I do I support you and tell you I do but when you fire back at me that what I say is nonsense, not only is that disrespectful but it is downright insulting to me and to the others you try to do it to as well.

If I agree with something you say I will say so...If not I will say so...Im the most honest person you will EVER meet

Astounds me at times how you get away with being so disrespectful.

again like new labour, you mistake the truth for being disrespectful
the truth often hurts but think how much it hurts the 1 million dead Iraqis the 1000000s of thousands who died from neglect or abuse in british hospitals or CARE homes....or the 20,000 children abused in Rotherham. your anger and disgust should be vented at the labour party



What a confusing post to make and I insulted no one except to pull you up for insulting me and calling my views nonsense.

Also I will slam the Labour party when it does wrong as I do all other parties.

I really am mystified how you get away with being so nasty to people.
I am just going to ignore you from now on.
Not worth any of my time further whatsoever.

[DemolitionRed]

2 million new jobs?
less intereference in their everyday lives
lower taxes
less regulation for small businesses
more money into the nhs in England
less stealth taxes
less bashing landlords simply to steal their money
no illegal invasions of sovereign nations
gdp growth

that's just for starters

Ok I'm going to be pedantic! Its 1.75 million. The problem is, those former engineers who are now learning how to make a decent coffee in Starbucks on a minimum wage and up until recently, zero hour contracts, have to collect a subsidy just to survive...its called family tax credit which not surprisingly has gone up at the same rate as all this new employment has.

You are kidding about the NHS? you really believe Cameron is ploughing money into this social good?

At least Labour didn't tether us to China and threaten our friendship with Washington. Nor did it reduce its armed forces, deplete its defence budget or compromise our national security for other commercial interests.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8255177]Ok I'm going to be pedantic! Its 1.75 million. The problem is, those former engineers who are now learning how to make a decent coffee in Starbucks on a minimum wage and up until recently, zero hour contracts, have to collect a subsidy just to survive...its called family tax credit which not surprisingly has gone up at the same rate as all this new employment has.

- new labour scrapped the military hospitals? where did the money go?

You are kidding about the NHS? you really believe Cameron is ploughing money into this social good?

Im deadly serious, why would you think Im joking about the tens of thousands abused and neglected and the 100s of millions wasted on endless middle managers, chief executives pay rise, cover ups, doctors doubling their wages...record weekend death rates

At least Labour didn't tether us to China and threaten our friendship with Washington. Nor did it reduce its armed forces, deplete its defence budget or compromise our national security for other commercial interests.

eh? labour sent us to an illegal war, they sent our soldiers to death in an illegal war that saw 1 million innocents killed and labour didn't even arm our soldiers properl, our soldiers had to buy kit off the americans in Iraq and Afghanistan...your selective memory is very very disturbing. new labour failed to invest in any energy, any nuclear , no severan barrage.....the tories have green lighted the barrage project in Swansea.....new labour failed to renew our nuclear energy too. they also failed completely to invest in our industries. they left us instead with record debts.

[DemolitionRed]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8255177]Ok I'm going to be pedantic! Its 1.75 million. The problem is, those former engineers who are now learning how to make a decent coffee in Starbucks on a minimum wage and up until recently, zero hour contracts, have to collect a subsidy just to survive...its called family tax credit which not surprisingly has gone up at the same rate as all this new employment has.

- new labour scrapped the military hospitals? where did the money go?

You are kidding about the NHS? you really believe Cameron is ploughing money into this social good?

Im deadly serious, why would you think Im joking about the tens of thousands abused and neglected and the 100s of millions wasted on endless middle managers, chief executives pay rise, cover ups, doctors doubling their wages...record weekend death rates

At least Labour didn't tether us to China and threaten our friendship with Washington. Nor did it reduce its armed forces, deplete its defence budget or compromise our national security for other commercial interests.

eh? labour sent us to an illegal war, they sent our soldiers to death in an illegal war that saw 1 million innocents killed and labour didn't even arm our soldiers properl, our soldiers had to buy kit off the americans in Iraq and Afghanistan...your selective memory is very very disturbing. new labour failed to invest in any energy, any nuclear , no severan barrage.....the tories have green lighted the barrage project in Swansea.....new labour failed to renew our nuclear energy too. they also failed completely to invest in our industries. they left us instead with record debts.

I'm off to bed in a minute so will try and work out what you are saying tomorrow :)

I will just clarify though, I haven't argued about Labour (Blair to be exact) sending us into an illegal war. Blair was a trigger happy warmonger as far as I'm concerned but that doesn't mean I defend what Cameron is doing to our military budget in the here and now. I'm not about to have a tit for tat argument of your dads uglier than my dad, I'm just pointing out that your list of conservative goodies is flawed.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=the truth;8255507]

I'm off to bed in a minute so will try and work out what you are saying tomorrow :)

I will just clarify though, I haven't argued about Labour (Blair to be exact) sending us into an illegal war. Blair was a trigger happy warmonger as far as I'm concerned but that doesn't mean I defend what Cameron is doing to our military budget in the here and now. I'm not about to have a tit for tat argument of your dads uglier than my dad, I'm just pointing out that your list of conservative goodies is flawed.

you never even said that. new labour were an absolute disgrace and left the country in tatters. the tories are a combination of some good moves and some very bad....to be continued