Jeremy Corbyn the Labour Leader: Some Still Against him : a 2nd Jeremy Win 24/9/16

[DemolitionRed]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8255548]

you never even said that. new labour were an absolute disgrace and left the country in tatters. the tories are a combination of some good moves and some very bad....to be continued

Said what?


Many of our military hospitals were antiquated dinosaurs from the Bore war and first world war. Aldershot military hospital comes to mind because I had my tonsils out in Aldershot and my grandmother had a hip replacement in that hospital back in 94. It was a gloomy place with paint peeling off the walls and buckets catching the rain from the holes in the roof. That hospital was closed in 1996 when John Major was in office. A new modern hospital had been built a few miles away with its own large military section.

Wiki says that the last of the military hospitals closed in 1995 when military health care facilities embedded themselves within civilian hospitals.

As for the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS, you answered that with:

The tens of thousands abused and neglected and the 100s of millions wasted on endless middle managers, chief executives pay rise, cover ups, doctors doubling their wages...record weekend death rates.

What has that got to do with the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS? What money are the Conservative party putting into the NHS?

You can pontificate all you like about the evils of Tony Blair and his Labour predecessors but if you're going to do that you need to be more factual and specific. Chances are I will agree with your grievances but I'm not about to agree with some angry random s**te that doesn't add up.

When Labour was in power, I was just as vitriol about many of their policies but if we perpetually rant about old New Labour being the devil incarnate this debate will just stagnate into a tit for tat argument.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=the truth;8255624]

Said what?


Many of our military hospitals were antiquated dinosaurs from the Bore war and first world war. Aldershot military hospital comes to mind because I had my tonsils out in Aldershot and my grandmother had a hip replacement in that hospital back in 94. It was a gloomy place with paint peeling off the walls and buckets catching the rain from the holes in the roof. That hospital was closed in 1996 when John Major was in office. A new modern hospital had been built a few miles away with its own large military section.

Wiki says that the last of the military hospitals closed in 1995 when military health care facilities embedded themselves within civilian hospitals.

As for the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS, you answered that with:

The tens of thousands abused and neglected and the 100s of millions wasted on endless middle managers, chief executives pay rise, cover ups, doctors doubling their wages...record weekend death rates.

What has that got to do with the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS? What money are the Conservative party putting into the NHS?

You can pontificate all you like about the evils of Tony Blair and his Labour predecessors but if you're going to do that you need to be more factual and specific. Chances are I will agree with your grievances but I'm not about to agree with some angry random s**te that doesn't add up.

When Labour was in power, I was just as vitriol about many of their policies but if we perpetually rant about old New Labour being the devil incarnate this debate will just stagnate into a tit for tat argument.

thanks for the foul language , that really loses you credibility
the nhs question displays how much better the tories have been on the nhs than labour. the tories have increased spending in England and labour have decreased spending in wales....in wales you have to wait 6 to 10 weeks for a result for a scan, in England you get the result on the spot , at least you do in the south east. tories have brough in confidential complaints procedures, as staff in nhs previously felt too scared bullied or intimidated to do so under new labours reign of terror. mrsa was rife under new labour , its not anymore...tens of thousands more died on weekends under new labour, the tories are tackling this with staged 24/7 coverage forcing doctors to work and cutting off the double pay new labour were paying doctors at weekends....labour also doubled doctors salaries in a decade, cost the nhs 100s of millions..i know of many hospitals where multi million pound equipment was installed but never used because labour never sorted out proper staffing rotas.....the list of waste and mismanagement under labour goes on and on

how do we know this labour lot are entirely different to the last disastrous corrupt wasteful lying bankrupt warmongers?

[arista]

JC is Live on TVNews
at the Scottish Labour launch
in Perth.

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=the truth;8255624]

Said what?


Many of our military hospitals were antiquated dinosaurs from the Bore war and first world war. Aldershot military hospital comes to mind because I had my tonsils out in Aldershot and my grandmother had a hip replacement in that hospital back in 94. It was a gloomy place with paint peeling off the walls and buckets catching the rain from the holes in the roof. That hospital was closed in 1996 when John Major was in office. A new modern hospital had been built a few miles away with its own large military section.

Wiki says that the last of the military hospitals closed in 1995 when military health care facilities embedded themselves within civilian hospitals.

As for the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS, you answered that with:

The tens of thousands abused and neglected and the 100s of millions wasted on endless middle managers, chief executives pay rise, cover ups, doctors doubling their wages...record weekend death rates.

What has that got to do with the Conservatives putting more money into the NHS? What money are the Conservative party putting into the NHS?

You can pontificate all you like about the evils of Tony Blair and his Labour predecessors but if you're going to do that you need to be more factual and specific. Chances are I will agree with your grievances but I'm not about to agree with some angry random s**te that doesn't add up.

When Labour was in power, I was just as vitriol about many of their policies but if we perpetually rant about old New Labour being the devil incarnate this debate will just stagnate into a tit for tat argument.

Great post,so was I heavily against much of what Labour did in power too.

However to irrationally hold against a party forever their wrongs in govt is something I just don't understand.
Were that irrational behaviour followed by the mass of voters,then no one would likely ever get elected to power again, if that was the case.

Leaders change, policies change and then so does the party change in due course.
Mistakes and wrongs were done by every govt of the past, they are in the present and will be done by all in the future too,that is one certainty.

I detest with a passion this Conservative govt for its heartlessness, with a new leader who has compassion and a new set of policies in the future, will I hate them forever, no.
Just as I haven't done so as to the Labour party too.

[empire]

if labour got back in with corbyn, he would bring down this country quicker than gorbachev perestroika reforms, I mean we would end up with food shortages and huge empty supermarkets with no food, even worse, eating are shoes, who wants too stand in a long queue line like the people in the last years of the USSR,

[MTVN]

Corbyn is a joke

[arista]

Corbyn is a joke


He keeps giving cynical type jokes
at every talk.


I am getting sick of his Gimmick at PMQ's

"I have a Email from ...."

Just ask the fecking Question.

[kirklancaster]

The trouble is that he is like The Joker in a Batman script - so transparently ridiculous but dangerous with it.

How can ANYBODY support this nutter?

[arista]

The trouble is that he is like The Joker in a Batman script - so transparently ridiculous but dangerous with it.

How can ANYBODY support this nutter?


If he would say he will push the nuke button
under Extreme War Attack
that would help him

[DemolitionRed]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8255756]

thanks for the foul language , that really loses you credibility
the nhs question displays how much better the tories have been on the nhs than labour. the tories have increased spending in England and labour have decreased spending in wales....in wales you have to wait 6 to 10 weeks for a result for a scan, in England you get the result on the spot , at least you do in the south east. tories have brough in confidential complaints procedures, as staff in nhs previously felt too scared bullied or intimidated to do so under new labours reign of terror. mrsa was rife under new labour , its not anymore...tens of thousands more died on weekends under new labour, the tories are tackling this with staged 24/7 coverage forcing doctors to work and cutting off the double pay new labour were paying doctors at weekends....labour also doubled doctors salaries in a decade, cost the nhs 100s of millions..i know of many hospitals where multi million pound equipment was installed but never used because labour never sorted out proper staffing rotas.....the list of waste and mismanagement under labour goes on and on

how do we know this labour lot are entirely different to the last disastrous corrupt wasteful lying bankrupt warmongers?

I apologise if a certain word offended you. I tend to use the odd profanity in what I write when I have a strong opinion about a subject and I do have a tendency to speak my mind or write like I speak. Whether that's harsh or not is another opinion.

The Tories have not increased spending on the NHS: The Tories broke their manifesto promise to deliver real terms increases in NHS spending every year. The Tories in fact delivered the tightest budget arrangements for the NHS since 1979 and they are on course to cut NHS spending per patient by 9.1% by 2018-9. http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/12/report-100-ways-tories-have-failed-nhs.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/251397369/100-Tory-NHS-Failures-Evidence-Based-With-Links-to-Verify-Data

^The links on this site come directly from the Royal College of General Practitioners, The Kings Fund, NHS England and legislation.gov.uk

I don't know if you can be bothered to read any of it but if you do, I think you will be surprised. Its only on links such as these that you see real evidence of NHS rationing.

Over 500 surgeries at risk of closure as GP workforce crisis deepens.

Englands GP to patient ration has worsened by 4%

The Tories shut down our highly efficient NHS Direct and replaced it with a for-profit NHS111 service. 64.78% of the NHS111 staff who process the calls have no clinical expertise.

518 GPs surgeries have closed under the Tories. The rate is accelerating.

Performance at British A&Es has fallen to its worst levels since Jan 2004

66 A&E and Maternity Wards have been closed or facing closure as a result of Tory cuts.

The Tories have shut 1/3 of walk in centres releasing up to 2 million patients a year back into a struggling A&E system.

So why is our NHS in so much trouble?

This is exactly what Thatcher did before selling off our social assets. The pro privatization lobby ran them into the ground until the gullible public agreed that these industries just couldn’t work under a social system. Talk to most people on the street and they will tell you that the NHS doesn’t work any more. The truth is, it can work, but the pro privateers are very deliberately undermining it because its another huge asset they want to get their dirty mitts on.

David Cameron will go down in history for privatising the NHS.

[joeysteele]

If he would say he will push the nuke button
under Extreme War Attack
that would help him

I actually admire him more for saying he wouldn't.

Depending on the result of a debate on the issue,I feel compromise can be found,I still do not see why this should be a decision to have to be made by one person anyway,PM or otherwise.

Also, he couldn't actually do it anyway without the permission of the USA,something else that needs to be looked at and debated in my view.

[DemolitionRed]

I actually admire him more for saying he wouldn't.

Depending on the result of a debate on the issue,I feel compromise can be found,I still do not see why this should be a decision to have to be made by one person anyway,PM or otherwise.

Also, he couldn't actually do it anyway without the permission of the USA,something else that needs to be looked at and debated in my view.

Corbyn is an activist through and through. His political passion towards world peace could well be his downfall though.

He's got a daunting four years ahead of him. Can he compromise on some of those strong principles? I hope so.

Don't get me wrong Joey; for me, Corbyn has brought something new and fresh into our political arena. He's sparked interest in the disillusioned, he's made people sit up and learn about their countries political structure and he's made it ok to openly voice about the social prospective of politics.

[joeysteele]

He keeps giving cynical type jokes
at every talk.


I am getting sick of his Gimmick at PMQ's

"I have a Email from ...."

Just ask the fecking Question.

I like that move although he will need to rest it some weeks.

However keep them coming, get this PM so rattled that the people watching see clearly the contempt he has for not only his opponents but also for the electorate who have taken the time to send in questions to ask the ignorant so and so.

6 times he refused to address directly the point put o him on Wednesday,he showed himself up and Corbyn looked the better by far on Wednesday too.

I still think PMQs should be scrapped,no one has and no one will get any relevant answers to serious questions put to this PM.
He is worse than Gordon Brown for not answering questions at PMQs and I didn't believe that could be possible.

[JoshBB]

The thing that annoys me about the PMQs is not his public-style, but the sniggering and laughing at the responses from the tories towards corbyn & co.

[joeysteele]

The thing that annoys me about the PMQs is not his public-style, but the sniggering and laughing at the responses from the tories towards corbyn & co.

Which Corbyn exploits really well, when he pauses and looks round giving them time to do more of it, letting the viewers see the contempt the govt holds ordinary people in.
This is a truly horrible smug and arrogant govt in all ways.

[Kizzy]

Which Corbyn exploits really well, when he pauses and looks round giving them time to do more of it, letting the viewers see the contempt the govt holds ordinary people in.
This is a truly horrible smug and arrogant govt in all ways.

I love it too, Corbyn handles the PM brilliantly and he does reduce him to a scoffing schoolboy during PMQs... it's the best way to handle it.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/10/31/427300/default/v2/cegrab-20151031-122046-234-1-992x558.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/10/31/427298/default/v2/cegrab-20151031-122002-234-1-992x558.jpg

http://news.sky.com/gallery/1579388/corbyn-mcdonnell-not-trusted

[Jamie89]

The trouble is that he is like The Joker in a Batman script - so transparently ridiculous but dangerous with it.

How can ANYBODY support this nutter?

I've avoided this thread because I don't really know a lot about him, actually I'd never heard of him before he was in the election race :laugh: But at the risk of making myself sound stupid... what's wrong with him? Why is he dangerous? I'm genuinely interested. From what I've seen of him in interviews and things I think he's come across as a really decent bloke.

[kirklancaster]

I've avoided this thread because I don't really know a lot about him, actually I'd never heard of him before he was in the election race :laugh: But at the risk of making myself sound stupid... what's wrong with him? Why is he dangerous? I'm genuinely interested. From what I've seen of him in interviews and things I think he's come across as a really decent bloke.

I didn't get ome until after 5am and am a bit hungover, so to save me typing out, here's a paste of just ONE post out of dozens of earlier posts about Corbyn:

16-09-2015, 11:57 AM #53
kirklancaster
Senior Member

'Friends' of Labour Leader Jeremy Corbin 1:

1) Muslim 'Hate Activist' Abou Jahjah – now banned from the UK – who has spent a decade stirring up hatred and inciting slaughter. His very public statements and actions include:

a) Considering "every dead Dutch, British and American soldier a victory”.

b) Dubbing the 9/11 terror atrocities “sweet revenge”.

c) Attacking Europe for “Jew-worshiping”.

d) Cursed gay people as “Aids spreading fagots”.

e) Been arrested for organising an Arab riot.

f) Published twisted anti-Jewish cartoons, including one showing Adolf Hitler and 15-year-old Holocaust victim Anne Frank both naked in bed with the caption: “Write that in your diary, Anne”.

In 2009 Corbyn INVITED his FRIEND Dyab Abou Jahjah to address a meeting at the House of Commons. and also spoke at an anti-war rally alongside his friend Abou Jahjah in central London.

"In a sign that Mr Corbyn’s links to the Arab extremist are still active, only two weeks ago Abou Jahjah tweeted warm messages of support for the leftwing campaigner."

Corbyn is apparently thick as two short planks and very naive because DESPITE over a decade of Abou Jahjah's VERY PUBLIC displays of Islamic Extremism and terrorist support, a spokeswoman for the Labour Leader said:

“This is an attempt to smear Jeremy by association. The views expressed here are abhorrent.

“If they are indeed those of Dyou Abou Jahjah there is no suggestion he has said them in Jeremy’s hearing."

'Friends' of Labour Leader Jeremy Corbin 2:

1) In February 20014 Corbyn shared a platform with his friend Sayyed Hassan al-Sadr - the British 'Representative' of the Iranian-backed Mahdi Army militia, led by Muqtada al-Sadr, which killed at least 70 British soldiers and thousands of Iraqi civilians during 2004 to 2008.

The occasion was to CELEBRATE the 35th anniversary of the ayatollahs’ revolutionary takeover in Iran. In his talk, entitled “The Case for Iran,” Corbyn the Patriot:

1) Called for the immediate scrapping of sanctions on the country.

2) Attacked Iran's 'colonial exploitation' by British business

3) Called for an end to the “demonisation” of Iran's extremist regime by the West.

Need I outline the numerous other Terrorist Organisations which this creep supports and numbers as his friends?

Later perhaps. For now, here's more TRUTH about Corbyn:

1) Received thousands of pounds in gifts from organisations closely linked to the terror group Hamas, whose operatives he described as “friends”.

2) Insulted terror victims by repeatedly refusing to condemn IRA atrocities during a BBC Ulster broadcast in August 2015.

3) Travelled to Tehran at the expense of a secretive British-Iranian multi-millionaire who has employed a number of other British parliamentarians as consultants to build business links with the country.

4) From the mid 80's he tirelessly built links between the outlawed IRA and the British labour Party, inviting senior representives to parliament.

5) He has praised the IRA and stated that dead IRA members should be "honoured".

6)"In February 2013, Corbyn and his wife travelled to Gaza thanks to a £2,800 gift from Interpal, a British charity banned by the US government as “part of the funding network of Hamas” and as a terrorist organisation in its own right."

7) Corbyn has "received at least two further free trips, worth £2,450, from the Palestinian Return Centre and its subsidiary the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza, based at the PRC office in Crown House, Wembley. The PRC is said by the Israeli government to be “Hamas’s organisational branch in Europe” whose members are “senior Hamas leaders who promote the movement’s agenda in Europe.”

Need I continue? Later, perhaps - for now, I ask you to gracefully accept that my comment:

"He'd have been much happier sitting in tent somewhere in the Middle East".

Is based on well established FACT and NOT "extremist ****ing nonsense"

Thank you.
.................................................. .. End of Paste...............................

Read up on him Liam. This is the bastard who turned his back on our troops returning from war but publicly lamented the death of Osama Bin Laden.

[Jamie89]

I didn't get ome until after 5am and am a bit hungover, so to save me typing out, here's a paste of just ONE post out of dozens of earlier posts about Corbyn:

Read up on him Liam. This is the bastard who turned his back on our troops returning from war but publicly lamented the death of Osama Bin Laden.

I'm far too hungover myself to read and understand any of this right now :laugh: but thanks for posting it, I could never have read through the 800ish posts already made. I'm going for another sleep and then I'll have a look at it all :)

[joeysteele]

I've avoided this thread because I don't really know a lot about him, actually I'd never heard of him before he was in the election race :laugh: But at the risk of making myself sound stupid... what's wrong with him? Why is he dangerous? I'm genuinely interested. From what I've seen of him in interviews and things I think he's come across as a really decent bloke.

Liam, may I please say well done to you for when coming across him, that you haven't looked for all the dubious stuff there may be about him from the past and often very distant past too,just listening to the prejudiced views against him rather than listening to him and forming your own opinion.

I am the first to admit, I have no liking at all for David Cameron,few would ever ask me what I thought of him, it is well known,he is a man who like all politicians can change his mind as time progresses,over the last 5 years he has changed his mind on an issue almost every 3 months.

To some, Corbyn can never change, Corbyn has had the luxury of being a backbencher all his political life,so has had the freedom to speak out whatever his feelings were at any given time on issues as they arose.
he has his right to his views as we all have.
He has been elected now as a Labour MP for 32 years consecutively and is held in good standing by all voters, not just Labour ones in his parliamentary constituency.

Now however he has been thrust into being a leader of a Party, and yes he comes with past baggage as near all politicians do.
Some will and have attacked from the start of his leadership, not seeing how he develops that role and what policies he may bring in to seek election with.
They get at him from their own personal dislike of him and prejudice against the things he has stood for in the past.

Many young people, I come across more and more all the time now, are warming to him,he has woken up politics with his leadership election and so far is staying as true to his principles,(I don't agree with all his principles,in fact I don't agree with all my own Dads principles as he doesn't mine either),while setting out to deliver policies that are compassionate, fair and just across the board as to social policies.
As an alternative to the absolute horrors and heartlessness of this govts policies in many social directions.

All I hope you may still do is watch him and form your own view of him on what he does and says now as leader,as you have done so far, and not let yourself be swayed against him by those with the agenda of running him down at every opportunity,never even giving him a chance.

Again well done to you and what you are seeing as to him so far, as what you said in your post is what a great many younger voters are seeing and in fact liking too.
People who will also have a vote in 2020.

[bots]

Personally I never liked Cameron, he is a typical career politician, and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. However, Corbyn (in my humble opinion) is a completely new level of disaster waiting to happen. There are no good choices in politics now, its who is the best of a very bad lot, but for me, we haven't had anyone quite so bad as Corbyn for a very, very long time.

[DemolitionRed]

Liam
If you want to really learn about Corbyn and what he stands for, you need to take each one of Kirks snippets and research them to the full. What you will find is a very different story than the one Kirk would like you to believe.

When it comes to politics, don't be gullible and take everything the trash tabloids tell us with a grain of salt.

[Kizzy]

Liam
If you want to really learn about Corbyn and what he stands for, you need to take each one of Kirks snippets and research them to the full. What you will find is a very different story than the one Kirk would like you to believe.

When it comes politics, don't be gullible and take everything the trash tabloids with a grain of salt.

Agreed, I think many of those can be debunked fairly rapidly, in fact I thought a few had several pages back.

[kirklancaster]

This isn't a battle for Liam's soul :laugh: He's intelligent and will draw his own conclusions.

I will invite any of you on here to go ahead and 'debunk' my post about Corbyn though. But please do it methodically, fact by fact and with the truth.

Fire away.

[kirklancaster]

Agreed, I think many of those can be debunked fairly rapidly, in fact I thought a few had several pages back.

Where? Exactly?

[Kizzy]

This isn't a battle for Liam's soul :laugh: He's intelligent and will draw his own conclusions.

I will invite any of you on here to go ahead and 'debunk' my post about Corbyn though. But please do it methodically, fact by fact and with the truth.

Fire away.

Where are your 'facts' ... there's no links provided so your sources can be verified are there?
All you have posted is hearsay.

[DemolitionRed]

Where? Exactly?

There have been numerous discussions debunking a lot of the myths you have suggested and those discussions came with links. I don't have time to search through individual threads looking for them and that's why I suggested Liam looks on the internet for the clearer stories.

The truth is out there. :spin:

[the truth]

There have been numerous discussions debunking a lot of the myths you have suggested and those discussions came with links. I don't have time to search through individual threads looking for them and that's why I suggested Liam looks on the internet for the clearer stories.

The truth is out there. :spin:

The truth is in here too, youre talking to him:hehe:

[DemolitionRed]

The truth is in here too, youre talking to him:hehe:

Yeah right! :laugh:

[Jamie89]

I've already sold my soul to Josy in exchange for ban-immunity, Kirk. I think I could have got a better deal tbh :laugh:

Anyway it's all really interesting, this, and I'd probably drive myself crazy if I tried researching all of the points to find evidence for or debunk any of them. But truth be told, it actually doesn't bother me too much even if all these things turned out to be true. I know that sounds really bad! But it's not me excusing ANY of them, and it's not me saying that someone with a history like that is a good and decent person, but rather my view of politics which is that the party leader is really just the face of things. And if they're engaging and communicative and in any way able to help reduce the amount of apathy that exists then that's their job, and it's the job of the party as a whole to actually do the work that will make a difference for the country. And from what I've seen so far of Corbyn while he's been leader, he seems to be ticking those boxes for me. Does what I'm saying make any sense? I know that I've personally felt very apathetic since the general election, but Corbyn does have a presence that's made me stand up a bit and pay attention again.

[the truth]

corbyn needs to sack everyone associated with new labour

[joeysteele]

I've already sold my soul to Josy in exchange for ban-immunity, Kirk. I think I could have got a better deal tbh :laugh:

Anyway it's all really interesting, this, and I'd probably drive myself crazy if I tried researching all of the points to find evidence for or debunk any of them. But truth be told, it actually doesn't bother me too much even if all these things turned out to be true. I know that sounds really bad! But it's not me excusing ANY of them, and it's not me saying that someone with a history like that is a good and decent person, but rather my view of politics which is that the party leader is really just the face of things. And if they're engaging and communicative and in any way able to help reduce the amount of apathy that exists then that's their job, and it's the job of the party as a whole to actually do the work that will make a difference for the country. And from what I've seen so far of Corbyn while he's been leader, he seems to be ticking those boxes for me. Does what I'm saying make any sense? I know that I've personally felt very apathetic since the general election, but Corbyn does have a presence that's made me stand up a bit and pay attention again.

A really great and very fair post Liam.
I hope you hold on to that and it is really refreshing to find someone not swayed by the media too.
Wish many more were like you, very well said.

[lostalex]

he's definitely a crazy old man. he won't last long, and even if he did win a general election, then they definitely will replace him. The powers that be would never let him represent the UK on a world stage.

[arista]

corbyn needs to sack everyone associated with new labour


Thats to many
plus they have one By Election in December
fighting against UKIP.

[kirklancaster]

he's definitely a crazy old man. he won't last long, and even if he did win a general election, then they definitely will replace him. The powers that be would never let him represent the UK on a world stage.

Well said Alex.

[arista]

PMQ's today
Very loud.

J.C. won no battles
with his slow questions. And Boring Same Questions as last week 6 times asked
We know the P.M answer .... we find out in 3 weeks time.


Dave Pointed out
how bad his appointments
are , as 3 new people of the Labour team
a Stalinist , a Trotskyist and a Communist.

[Kizzy]

PMQ's today
Very loud.

J.C. won no battles
with his slow questions. And Boring Same Questions as last week 6 times asked
We know the P.M answer .... we find out in 3 weeks time.


Dave Pointed out
how bad his appointments
are , as 3 new people of the Labour team
a Stalinist , a Trotskyist and a Communist.

Did he actually say that?...

[bots]

as a more right wing than left supporter ...i think it could be a close call between Corbyn and Cameron as to who will end up going first. We know Cameron is now on borrowed time, a few more scrappy bills in parliament and it will be Bye Bye Dave

[arista]

Did he actually say that?...


Why can you not Record this?


Yes he named JC 's Stalinist Media Man etc
and 2 others

[kirklancaster]

Why can you not Record this?


Yes he named JC 's Stalinist Media Man etc
and 2 others

But the named Stalinist etc will be 'unfounded myth' on here in 6 month's time (or less).

[Kizzy]

Should he surround himself with fascists like the conservatives?

[joeysteele]

I think he is out to frustrate at PMQs, may as well,he will never get relevant or sensible answers from this PM.
The sooner PMQs is dramatically changed and the PM made to be more accountable the better, so keep going Jeremy as you are for me.

[JoshBB]

Honestly I hope he was told to withdraw his 'stalinist' comment as any other politician in the house of commons would be, had it been a comment that infers someone is a fascist of any kind.

[joeysteele]

Honestly I hope he was told to withdraw his 'stalinist' comment as any other politician in the house of commons would be, had it been a comment that infers someone is a fascist of any kind.

The point is he gets the PM rattled and this PM cannot hide his true and real nastiness when rattled,good move by Corbyn actually.

[MTVN]

Milne is a radical leftist who has defended the USSR in the past, hardly outrageous to call him a Stalinist. In any case it's a poor appointment: the number 1 rule of a spin doctor is that they should never be the story. Milne provides too much ammo for that to not be the case, a point many Labour members have made.

[MTVN]

Also that 'full Marx' line is brilliant

[Kizzy]

Milne is a radical leftist who has defended the USSR in the past, hardly outrageous to call him a Stalinist. In any case it's a poor appointment: the number 1 rule of a spin doctor is that they should never be the story. Milne provides too much ammo for that to not be the case, a point many Labour members have made.

Define radical, why is it justified to label someone who has an objective view on the USSR a Stalinist?
Whoever was appointed would have been scrutinised to the nth degree, it's the tory way isn't it? Defamation, sneering, stigmatising anyone with any credibility.

[MTVN]

Define radical, why is it justified to label someone who has an objective view on the USSR a Stalinist?
Whoever was appointed would have been scrutinised to the nth degree, it's the tory way isn't it? Defamation, sneering, stigmatising anyone with any credibility.

Radical by any definition you care for really. I imagine he considers himself quite radical as well. Actually I quite agree with a lot of his comments on today's Russia and the USSR, but then I'm not a spin doctor. His outspokenness and controversial views are not exactly conducive to that role.

And there is no such thing as an objective view of history really.

[Kizzy]

Radical by any definition you care for really. I imagine he considers himself quite radical as well. Actually I quite agree with a lot of his comments on today's Russia and the USSR, but then I'm not a spin doctor. His outspokenness and controversial views are not exactly conducive to that role.

And there is no such thing as an objective view of history really.

Radical for having a rational viewpoint then? I doubt anyone with a balanced opinion an a topic would describe themselves as a radical.
As said whoever was in the role would be held under a microscope, may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb...
What is wrong with controversy and opinion? It makes you interesting :)

[the truth]

if he wants to win anything he has to target the disastrous European union which is now systematically destroying whats left of our steel industry

[empire]

labour have no chance in getting its core voters back, they are still throwing in the same old rhetoric with its pro eu stance, and pro mass-immigration policy, and have a very anti english attitude, lets point out the facts, ukip got nearly 4 million voters, and 99 percent of them are labour grass root supporters, that party has just eaten into its working class heartlands, there is an identity crisis in britain, with the rise of nationalism in scotland, it is going to happen in england and wales, if we can't leave the eu, there will be an english party that has nationalism that inturn will make the working man vote in droves, labour won't see this, when it is too late, just as what had happened in scotland, the reason why farage and his party tapped into the working class vote in england, because, him and his party thinks and says, and believe in what ordinary people want, labour have no longer the same values as what the ordinary people have, every country needs a labour party to help people, not have an obsession with enforcing equality down peoples throats, and having an anti patriot tongue to a class of people who held pride in patriotism, one labour mp said that britain should take in refugees even if it breaks us, so that means f you, to the british people, if you dare say no, new labour will manufacturer there false propanganda, and play the lie machine, to have you silence,

[the truth]

on a personal level, I personally don't share the animosity with immigration levels
maybe as im in mid wales it affects me less, maybe as ive not fought in wars in the middle east etc
however with regards Europe , its the mass of laws and rules and regs that strangle the life out of our country that offend me most
the problem is now, do we walk away, do we half walk away or do we wade right into the heart of this mess and try to sort it out
the other problem is will the tories really sort out the parts of the mess we need sorting?

[DemolitionRed]

labour have no chance in getting its core voters back, they are still throwing in the same old rhetoric with its pro eu stance, and pro mass-immigration policy, and have a very anti english attitude, lets point out the facts, ukip got nearly 4 million voters, and 99 percent of them are labour grass root supporters, that party has just eaten into its working class heartlands, there is an identity crisis in britain, with the rise of nationalism in scotland, it is going to happen in england and wales, if we can't leave the eu, there will be an english party that has nationalism that inturn will make the working man vote in droves, labour won't see this, when it is too late, just as what had happened in scotland, the reason why farage and his party tapped into the working class vote in england, because, him and his party thinks and says, and believe in what ordinary people want, labour have no longer the same values as what the ordinary people have, every country needs a labour party to help people, not have an obsession with enforcing equality down peoples throats, and having an anti patriot tongue to a class of people who held pride in patriotism, one labour mp said that britain should take in refugees even if it breaks us, so that means f you, to the british people, if you dare say no, new labour will manufacturer there false propanganda, and play the lie machine, to have you silence,

Was this written in seriousness ? what you just said holds about as much water as a bucket with a hole in it. There isn't going to be an election until 2020 and so what's the point in talking about Corbyn's electability at this stage in the game?

When you say, "labour have no longer the same values as what the ordinary people have", are you suggesting this of the old "New Labour" who were overly compliant with the Conservatives? or are you using the present Overton Window as a theory to your, what appears to be, very firm belief?

UKIP deliberately concentrated its votes on immigration policy because it saw an opportunity. What it failed to do was make a stance on more prudent matters such as the continued privatisation of our NHS, disbanding our military and police forces, calling a halt to the continued marketisation of our education systems and stopping cuts on our disability benefits and low income earners and that my friend, is why UKIP fell at the final fence.

When it came round to election day, 1/3 of the country didn't even turn out to vote and the ones who did, didn't see Farage as a leader and saw the Labour party as a party who aligned itself with the Right.

We are now sitting in the presence of a Labour party who are in line with post war Labour and from here on in, politics start to get interesting. For the next four and a bit years we are going to see the political stage move back and forth like we've never witnessed in our lifetimes but as of 'YET' none of us can make accurate predictions.

[joeysteele]

Was this written in seriousness ? what you just said holds about as much water as a bucket with a hole in it. There isn't going to be an election until 2020 and so what's the point in talking about Corbyn's electability at this stage in the game?

When you say, "labour have no longer the same values as what the ordinary people have", are you suggesting this of the old "New Labour" who were overly compliant with the Conservatives? or are you using the present Overton Window as a theory to your, what appears to be, very firm belief?

UKIP deliberately concentrated its votes on immigration policy because it saw an opportunity. What it failed to do was make a stance on more prudent matters such as the continued privatisation of our NHS, disbanding our military and police forces, calling a halt to the continued marketisation of our education systems and stopping cuts on our disability benefits and low income earners and that my friend, is why UKIP fell at the final fence.

When it came round to election day, 1/3 of the country didn't even turn out to vote and the ones who did, didn't see Farage as a leader and saw the Labour party as a party who aligned itself with the Right.

We are now sitting in the presence of a Labour party who are in line with post war Labour and from here on in, politics start to get interesting. For the next four and a bit years we are going to see the political stage move back and forth like we've never witnessed in our lifetimes but as of 'YET' none of us can make accurate predictions.

I read this whole post and agree with every bit of it. another brilliant post by you DR.

The only thing I will hand to UKIP as to their policies in May was they were the only party who advocated ending the cold and obscene ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled.
Something this shower of sh..e of a govt in its extreme heartlessness is actually making worse.

[Kizzy]

To be honest I associate UKIP with the right the right of the 1960s, with their rivers of blood attitude and adoration of real ale.
Sadly all they did was split the labour and conservative vote in different areas.

[MTVN]

"Call that a bow? Jeremy Corbyn lays wreath at the Cenotaph but is mocked for 'subtle' nod of the head"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3309003/Corbyn-s-anti-war-tribute-Labour-leader-read-Wilfred-Owen-poem-Futility-memorial-Cenotaph-ceremony.html#ixzz3qu9d1afh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[DemolitionRed]

I read this whole post and agree with every bit of it. another brilliant post by you DR.

The only thing I will hand to UKIP as to their policies in May was they were the only party who advocated ending the cold and obscene ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled.
Something this shower of sh..e of a govt in its extreme heartlessness is actually making worse.

Thanks Joey.

The problem with Farage is, his market was immigration. He saw a window opportunity (just like Trump has) and jumped on it like we've never seen before. It was a guaranteed route to popularity, especially amongst the working class or the masses that believe immigration is the very thing that has fractured this country. The problem with that is, most of us could barely see his other policies (some of which were good, though weak)....His immigration stance put a smog on everything else.

Many thought Farage was a nutter. I believe he was too much too soon but I also thank the gods that he never got through. What we saw from UKIP in the run up to the last elections was unstable policy predictions. If he'd started such a robust campaign five years prior, perhaps we would of had a better understanding of what Farage was about.

[Kizzy]

Dear me.... they are relentless aren't they and using such an occasion to further an agenda? That is as disrespectful as it gets.

[Kizzy]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/08/12/2E3B9FDE00000578-3309003-image-a-78_1446985250870.jpg

Nuff said.

[JoshBB]

labour have no chance in getting its core voters back, they are still throwing in the same old rhetoric with its pro eu stance, and pro mass-immigration policy, and have a very anti english attitude, lets point out the facts, ukip got nearly 4 million voters, and 99 percent of them are labour grass root supporters, that party has just eaten into its working class heartlands, there is an identity crisis in britain, with the rise of nationalism in scotland, it is going to happen in england and wales, if we can't leave the eu, there will be an english party that has nationalism that inturn will make the working man vote in droves, labour won't see this, when it is too late, just as what had happened in scotland, the reason why farage and his party tapped into the working class vote in england, because, him and his party thinks and says, and believe in what ordinary people want, labour have no longer the same values as what the ordinary people have, every country needs a labour party to help people, not have an obsession with enforcing equality down peoples throats, and having an anti patriot tongue to a class of people who held pride in patriotism, one labour mp said that britain should take in refugees even if it breaks us, so that means f you, to the british people, if you dare say no, new labour will manufacturer there false propanganda, and play the lie machine, to have you silence,


I haven't read the whole of your post.. but this 99% figure is ridiculous.

In fact.. it's far more conservatives https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/02/24/where-ukip-gets-its-support/

[JoshBB]

"Call that a bow? Jeremy Corbyn lays wreath at the Cenotaph but is mocked for 'subtle' nod of the head"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3309003/Corbyn-s-anti-war-tribute-Labour-leader-read-Wilfred-Owen-poem-Futility-memorial-Cenotaph-ceremony.html#ixzz3qu9d1afh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Honestly, corbyn could wave and have people call it a nazi salute. People need to calm down.

[DemolitionRed]

"Call that a bow? Jeremy Corbyn lays wreath at the Cenotaph but is mocked for 'subtle' nod of the head"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3309003/Corbyn-s-anti-war-tribute-Labour-leader-read-Wilfred-Owen-poem-Futility-memorial-Cenotaph-ceremony.html#ixzz3qu9d1afh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

"you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't."

Like Corbyn, I'm a supporter of "Veterans For Peace"

[joeysteele]

"you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't."

Like Corbyn, I'm a supporter of "Veterans For Peace"

I thought he did it fine, better than Cameron fiddling with the label on the wreath,trying to grab bit more TV time.

I knew they would but unbelievable the cameras went straight to Corbyn when the anthem started being sung to see if he was joining in.

It really is petty and in fact pathetic, as was my dig at Cameron in this post but hey lets all join in, there are plenty gaffs made by politicians of all parties, leaders too.
So many in fact,a series of films could be made about them so why just keep getting at one individual.

[Kizzy]

'Jeremy Corbyn has accused the head of the UK armed forces of unacceptable political interference after Gen Sir Nicholas Houghton suggested the Labour leader’s unilateralism made him unfit to be prime minister.

Corbyn said Houghton had clearly breached his constitutional duty to remain out of party politics and that he would be writing to the Ministry of Defence “to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld”.

Corbyn issued a statement hours after Houghton said he would be worried by any prospect of the Labour leader’s views being “translated into power” because Corbyn has said he would never be willing to approve the use of nuclear weapons.

Corbyn’s stance defeated the point of having a nuclear deterrent, Houghton said in an interview on BBC1’s Andrew Marr show.'

Fair point well made.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/08/rmed-forces-chief-jeremy-corbyn-defence-trident

[Northern Monkey]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/08/12/2E3B9FDE00000578-3309003-image-a-78_1446985250870.jpg

Nuff said.

His hand writing's terrible:laugh:

[arista]

'Jeremy Corbyn has accused the head of the UK armed forces of unacceptable political interference after Gen Sir Nicholas Houghton suggested the Labour leader’s unilateralism made him unfit to be prime minister.

Corbyn said Houghton had clearly breached his constitutional duty to remain out of party politics and that he would be writing to the Ministry of Defence “to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld”.

Corbyn issued a statement hours after Houghton said he would be worried by any prospect of the Labour leader’s views being “translated into power” because Corbyn has said he would never be willing to approve the use of nuclear weapons.

Corbyn’s stance defeated the point of having a nuclear deterrent, Houghton said in an interview on BBC1’s Andrew Marr show.'

Fair point well made.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/08/rmed-forces-chief-jeremy-corbyn-defence-trident


JC
can say whatever he wants
he will never be a UK PM
unless he agrees to having 4 Nuke Active Subs.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/08/12/2E3BCF8000000578-3309003-image-m-62_1446984130976.jpg
Fecking High Paid Warmonger Blair
2nd row

[kirklancaster]

'Jeremy Corbyn has accused the head of the UK armed forces of unacceptable political interference after Gen Sir Nicholas Houghton suggested the Labour leader’s unilateralism made him unfit to be prime minister.

Corbyn said Houghton had clearly breached his constitutional duty to remain out of party politics and that he would be writing to the Ministry of Defence “to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld”.

Corbyn issued a statement hours after Houghton said he would be worried by any prospect of the Labour leader’s views being “translated into power” because Corbyn has said he would never be willing to approve the use of nuclear weapons.

Corbyn’s stance defeated the point of having a nuclear deterrent, Houghton said in an interview on BBC1’s Andrew Marr show.'

Fair point well made.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/08/rmed-forces-chief-jeremy-corbyn-defence-trident

:joker::joker::joker: :joker:Where's the bit about Corbyn's Shadow Defence Secretary Maria Eagle openly SIDING with General Houghton?

This is is just a joke of a party with a clown for a leader.

Oh... And if further proof of this is needed -- How about "TWO MONTHS into the job now, and how many times has Jeremy Corbyn and Maria Eagles met to discuss TRIDENT?" .... NONE. :laugh:

Cue BENNY HILL CHASE MUSIC.... :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

JC
can say whatever he wants
he will never be a UK PM
unless he agrees to having 4 Nuke Active Subs.

Seeing as how he's done more U turns than any other politician in history, he WILL sooner than later change his mind and vow to PRESS the button if the need arises - BUT HE WILL STILL NEVER BE A UK PM.

[kirklancaster]

His hand writing's terrible:laugh:

It doesn't say "OUR fallen" does it? And doesn't exclude dead terrorists.

[Livia]

I was at the Cenotaph today. The people I was with had quite a lot to say about Mr Corbyn. White poppy last year, turning his back - physically - on troops returning from Iraq (the troops won't forget that) and suddenly, because he's got a promotion, it's a red poppy and all the ceremony he can eat. He has not the courage of his convictions.

[DemolitionRed]

yep, like I said, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[empire]

No government before, new labour, gave unelected people the powers to order are civil servants about, and gave powers to lock up people without trial, for 90 days,

[Scarlett.]

Like it or not, more and more people I know are liking Corbyn, people really seem to like him, cause he's not the usual stick up his arse muppet puppet like Cameron, Ed, or Blair. He actually seems to be aware of the world outside Parliament.

[Kizzy]

:joker::joker::joker: :joker:Where's the bit about Corbyn's Shadow Defence Secretary Maria Eagle openly SIDING with General Houghton?

This is is just a joke of a party with a clown for a leader.

Oh... And if further proof of this is needed -- How about "TWO MONTHS into the job now, and how many times has Jeremy Corbyn and Maria Eagles met to discuss TRIDENT?" .... NONE. :laugh:

Cue BENNY HILL CHASE MUSIC.... :laugh:

Sorry I can't make your point here out among all the smileys.

I agree with DR damned if he does damned if he doesn't, the spin doctors will have him trussed up like a christmas turkey.

[DemolitionRed]

Sorry I can't make your point here out among all the smileys.

I agree with DR damned if he does damned if he doesn't, the spin doctors will have him trussed up like a christmas turkey.

Time to make a new thread Kizzy. Stick around, I'm banking on your thoughts ;)

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/11/8/428806/default/v2/indynew-1-563x750.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/11/8/428807/default/v2/metronew-1-563x750.jpg

[joeysteele]

He is right, the defence chief should have chosen his words far more carefully and to get into this, this weekend when the only focus should be on those who lost their lives in wars.
I think this defence chief needs a heavy reprimand for his comments so support Corbyn in his stance.

The military, thank all powers that be, do not run the UK,and lets hope it is never the case either, ever.

[Scarlett.]

Goodness knows why this military boss thought it was alright to bring this up on rememberance day, the day we remember the troops killed in the militaries silly little wars.

[joeysteele]

Goodness knows why this military boss thought it was alright to bring this up on rememberance day, the day we remember the troops killed in the militaries silly little wars.

I believe he was asked a question about it so answered but he should have at least the very basic of common sense to avoid really getting into that.
He was wrong, and is wrong in my view and a disgusting day too to even get into the issue,I agree 100% with you on that.

[kirklancaster]

Sorry I can't make your point here out among all the smileys.

I agree with DR damned if he does damned if he doesn't, the spin doctors will have him trussed up like a christmas turkey.

:laugh: Here's another Smiley - Wear it like a Badge of Honour for coming first in the 'Deflection' test. :joker:

[lostalex]

He's like the male version of vivienne westwood. he is all style, and his style is pretending to have substance.

[Kizzy]

'I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I was at HG 2day, and when no other Politician was seen, he quietly watched ALL return! '

The rest ran off to stuff their faces ...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/09/jeremy-corbyns-bow-remembrance-day-what-really-happened

[Kizzy]

'Ministers are backing the head of the armed forces after he was accused of straying too far into politics by saying Jeremy Corbyn’s policy on Trident would undermine the credibility of Britain’s nuclear deterrent.

Corbyn is expected to write to Michael Fallon, the defence secretary, asking him to rein in the chief of defence staff, arguing his comment is an unacceptable breach of the principle that the military do not interfere in politics.'

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/09/trident-nuclear-weapons-former-first-sea-lord-criticises-armed-forces-chief-for-corbyn-remarks

[Livia]

I do not want this man running my country. Here are some of the reasons why, although I'm sure the Corbyn supporters - many of whom hadn't even heard of him earlier this year - will leap to defend even this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

[Kizzy]

I do not want this man running my country. Here are some of the reasons why, although I'm sure the Corbyn supporters - many of whom hadn't even heard of him earlier this year - will leap to defend even this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

'Then there is Corbyn’s apparent proximity to antisemitism. While I genuinely believe that Corbyn does not have an antisemitic bone in his body, he does have a proclivity for sharing platforms with individuals who do; and his excuses for doing so do not stand up.'

Are we going down the road of guilt by association? as I could throw up 101 very dodgy stages shared with plenty of tories past and present if you'd like.
Is there anything specific that you feel should concern Corbyn supporters?

[joeysteele]

I say again, if we held all that politicians have said and stood for in the past against then forever then few politicians or people for that matter would be worthy of winning any elections,a constituency or to power.

Our current PM once I understand was part of a grouping or a supporter of it that wanted Nelson Mandela executed.

[bots]

I say again, if we held all that politicians have said and stood for in the past against then forever then few politicians or people for that matter would be worthy of winning any elections,a constituency or to power.

Our current PM once I understand was part of a grouping or a supporter of it that wanted Nelson Mandela executed.

Corbyn has been quite clear that he hasn't changed his views since he expressed them. You are right, people can change, but Corbyn hasn't so he can rightly expect to be called out on said views while he is leader of a political party

[arista]

Jeremy Corbyn Made A Member Of Privy Council at last

http://news.sky.com/story/1585911/jeremy-corbyn-made-a-member-of-privy-council

[Kizzy]

The Right Honourable Jeremy Corbyn you mean?...

[bots]

The Right Honourable Jeremy Corbyn you mean?...

that must stick everytime its said ... I am sure he would prefer The Left Honourable :hehe:

[MTVN]

I wonder if he enjoyed kissing her Majesty's hand

[Kizzy]

I wonder if he enjoyed kissing her Majesty's hand

Do you think he kissed it for long enough, has he grovelled low enough to our monarch do you think?

'When asked in September if he would kneel to the Queen during the swearing-in ceremony, Mr Corbyn said he did not know that was involved, adding that there were some things that "ought to change in our society, maybe that's one of them".

He must have, he looks elated.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/0B93/production/_86636920_030074733-1.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34782123

[Kizzy]

'Jeremy Corbyn did not kneel before the Queen as he was sworn in as a member of the privy council, the Guardian understands.

The Labour leader, a lifelong republican, took part in the Buckingham Palace ceremony to become a member of the ceremonial body, which enables him to receive confidential security briefings.

Labour said Corbyn complied with the usual processes, which tend to involve kneeling on a stool before kissing the Queen’s hand.

But it is understood Buckingham Palace does not force privy council members to do things they are not comfortable with and that Corbyn did not kneel.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/11/jeremy-corbyn-did-not-kneel-for-the-queen

[joeysteele]

Whatever he did it must have been acceptable as he is now a member.

[the truth]

I do not want this man running my country. Here are some of the reasons why, although I'm sure the Corbyn supporters - many of whom hadn't even heard of him earlier this year - will leap to defend even this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Politician meets some bad people over the course of 30 odd years in parliament shocker?? and???

[arista]

He is Live on Lorraine
ITV1HD now


Talking about Syria


He has a Loud Bleep Bleep on his watch


He Son advises him on his socks
when he went out in short.


He is visiting Scotland
and other parts
of England.
He like talking to people.

From his Mother her learnt about Drain Covers,



Well Done Lorraine for getting him Relaxed
and talking so much.

He was fitted in between
the Independent Newspaper Editor
and the latest to leave X Factor

[Livia]

Politician meets some bad people over the course of 30 odd years in parliament shocker?? and???

And....... He actively sought these people out, he didn't meet them in the course of his work. He involved himself with terrorists. He is not a diplomat, until recently he was a constituency MP.

That clock's ticking faster now. Despite people defending every aspect of him... something I never see people do for Cameron or any other Tpry.

[joeysteele]

He is Live on Lorraine
ITV1HD now


Talking about Syria


He has a Loud Bleep Bleep on his watch


He Son advises him on his socks
when he went out in short.


He is visiting Scotland
and other parts
of England.
He like talking to people.

From his Mother her learnt about Drain Covers,



Well Done Lorraine for getting him Relaxed
and talking so much.

He was fitted in between
the Independent Newspaper Editor
and the latest to leave X Factor

It was actually a good conversation with her this morning and oddly enough I have yet to come across a negative comment as to it from those who saw it, that I have already spoken to.

[arista]

It was actually a good conversation with her this morning and oddly enough I have yet to come across a negative comment as to it from those who saw it, that I have already spoken to.


Yes so nice, she got him relaxed
I hope he pays her a visit more often

[DemolitionRed]

And....... He actively sought these people out, he didn't meet them in the course of his work. He involved himself with terrorists. He is not a diplomat, until recently he was a constituency MP.

That clock's ticking faster now. Despite people defending every aspect of him... something I never see people do for Cameron or any other Tpry.

I have previously written and shown proof of exactly what Corbyn's involvement was in bringing about Good Friday. It only takes a little research to fully understand his involvement, in fact I gave links that would of taken you to that truth. You prefer to make empty statements like "Corbyn involves himself with terrorism" (yes he does, but not in the way you're implying) and "Corbyn is not a diplomat". I'd be interested to see the links that give you this information or is it just your own personal feelings that have you saying these things?

This thread is about Corbyn and the people that add to this thread are either supporters, none supporters or don't knows. We are talking about Corbyn because he's in the thread title.

If we want to talk specifically about Cameron, then lets start a thread about him. Maybe its time Cameron supporters started standing up and debating his good points.

[Livia]

I have previously written and shown proof of exactly what Corbyn's involvement was in bringing about Good Friday. It only takes a little research to fully understand his involvement, in fact I gave links that would of taken you to that truth. You prefer to make empty statements like "Corbyn involves himself with terrorism" (yes he does, but not in the way you're implying) and "Corbyn is not a diplomat". I'd be interested to see the links that give you this information or is it just your own personal feelings that have you saying these things?

This thread is about Corbyn and the people that add to this thread are either supporters, none supporters or don't knows. We are talking about Corbyn because he's in the thread title.

If we want to talk specifically about Cameron, then lets start a thread about him. Maybe its time Cameron supporters started standing up and debating his good points.

The IRA came to the table willing to negotiate. Hamas will not, neither will Hezbollah. He showed his colours, like I've said before, turning his back on soldiers returning from Iraq. They will never forget that and neither will I. He turned his back on our own troops while chumming up with terrorists.

I don't want to talk specifically about Cameron, I drew a comparison. No need to make yet another thread about Cameron's shortcomings, we've all agreed he has them. I've not yet seen any supporter of Corbyn admit he has even one shortcoming.

I fear for the future of my country if Corbyn ever leads it, which I firmly believe he won't. That's my take and my opinion.

[arista]

JC is live on SkyNewsHD
i think he will do all the news Stations

[bots]

tick tock http://www.animatedgif.net/clockscounters/clock_e0.gif

[MTVN]

Ken Livingstone has refused to apologise for comments about a shadow defence minister despite Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn urging him to do so.

Mr Livingstone told the Mirror Kevan Jones - who has suffered with depression - needed "psychiatric help".

Mr Jones called the comments "gravely offensive", and Mr Livingstone faced a backlash from a number of Labour MPs.

Shadow defence secretary Maria Eagle is reportedly "furious" about his appointment to Labour's defence team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34853430

Oh dear oh dear. Just interviewed John Mann on the Daily Politics today as well and he refused to say he had confidence in Jeremy Corbyn despite being asked about five times

[arista]

tick tock http://www.animatedgif.net/clockscounters/clock_e0.gif


Yes he must take control of the Fights in his Party
as he is Fecking Causing them.
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291984

[empire]

the likes of ken, and diane abbott, and others in the party are out of touch with reality, they expect white working class people to vote like sheep for them, and at the same time treat them like idiots, no wonder they lost the election, what has really annoyed me about this party is that, with their pro terrorism, mass immigration policy, that has hurt the people who have voted for them, with zero jobs, housing shortage, giving special treatment to outsiders who just step into the country, and pay nothing back for it, there is not a chance in hell that I will ever vote for the two main parties, because they have made a tribal voting of arrogance with class snobbery for years, every election year, they stand their with their cocky faces, because they know that they are safe because most people will vote for them in that county, the elections are nothing but a joke for the last 20 years, but the british public should also be at fault blame, for voting the same old thing every five years, without reading every party manifesto, instead of voting for the name and colour,

[joeysteele]

He has the Oldham by election coming up, if he does well there and then also gets pretty good local elections results in May next year,his position could get stronger.
If Labour stay in power in Wales and there is any even small sign of a comeback in Scotland, then the moaners will have to put up or shut up.

[smudgie]

tick tock http://www.animatedgif.net/clockscounters/clock_e0.gif

Yes, I reckon he won't stay for the long run.
I just can't see a good way forward for Labour at this time.:shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Labour would have had a much better chance of raising itself to its former glories under Burnham or Cooper, or even Eagle.

It's actually very, very sad.

[Northern Monkey]

Its the Labour members that i feel sorry for having to go on live TV and defend,reinterpret or back track on all the ridiculous statements and blunders he makes.It's a mess.His own party don't even agree with him on many issues such as shoot to kill,trident and Jihadi John being taken out.He associates with the Stop The War campaign who insensitively decided to write an article baming France and the west for the Paris murders just days after it happened.

[Vicky.]

I have NEVER seen the press attack any politician in the way they do this bloke. Guy gets misquoted left right and centre and cannot take a sh*t without being demonized for it :laugh:

[joeysteele]

I have NEVER seen the press attack any politician in the way they do this bloke. Guy gets misquoted left right and centre and cannot take a sh*t without being demonized for it :laugh:

Hello Vicky, and I agree completely.

[DemolitionRed]

I have NEVER seen the press attack any politician in the way they do this bloke. Guy gets misquoted left right and centre and cannot take a sh*t without being demonized for it :laugh:

Its because they fear him!

[Johnnyuk123]

The bloke is a total bell end. The public are not fooled.

[DemolitionRed]

The bloke is a total bell end. The public are not fooled.

Give it time Johnny, give it time. The blokes only just got off the starting line.

[Johnnyuk123]

Give it time Johnny, give it time. The blokes only just got off the starting line.

I know many people who joined the labour party just to get him in power. Why they did that was clear. They don't want labour in power. RESULT!!! I never liked Milliband but this guy makes him look like an amazing leader.:joker:
He's a lost cause. Refusing to use tridents, refusing to pay respect to the soldiers. Wanting to chat to Jihadi John and the others armed with weapons to kill. He's a total idiot. Thats my point of view and i'm sticking with it.:wavey:

[DemolitionRed]

Then you've made up your mind. That's great Johnny...so what's your point?

[Johnnyuk123]

Then you've made up your mind. That's great Johnny...so what's your point?

I've made it. And your point is what?:shrug:

[empire]

new labour to this day have been trying to enforce, change in a society, by removing their values, and cultural identity, with the multiculturalist con, to be patriot, with nationalist views, and english, for which the new labour party hates, they tried to make a class of people swallow their party's ideology and it did more harm than good, corbyn is no different from the blairites, he won't listen to the people for who the labour party was created to help, and will only enforce his own marxist policy down people's throats, the other problem is with corbyn's throw limit immigration in the bin, when a large part of the public want it limited, new labour are facing big problems, because they are making themselves unelectable to what they throw at people, the two main parties lack national pride, and the people love national pride, and because they are in bed with the eu, so where does new labour and the tory party love, britain or the eu, take your pick.

[arista]

The PM Live in the Parliament
on a Reply to Long Winded Corbyn
pointed out he said 2 months ago to get rid of the
RAF . But now wants them


Well Of Course Dave,
Jeremy will change
as times of danger approach.

JC went on so long
the Speaker enforced a end question.

Live just now
as the PM talked about the funding for our Troops

[arista]

JC kept going on about Solar Job loses.
(Live PMQ's BBC2HD and SkyNewsHD)


The PM told him Clear
that due to Solar Prices Coming Down
he had no choice but to take away
the Gov Discount.


Market Forces Again

[Kizzy]

JC kept going on about Solar Job loses.
(Live PMQ's BBC2HD and SkyNewsHD)


The PM told him Clear
that due to Solar Prices Coming Down
he had no choice but to take away
the Gov Discount.


Market Forces Again

Rubbish, it's profits going down is all... I thought there was an energy crisis, they were worried about blackouts last week and yet they balk at people generating their own electricity?

[Livia]

Its because they fear him!

Because they know he's unelectable.

[Kizzy]

Because they know he's unelectable.

That's for the voters to decide :nono:

[Livia]

That's for the voters to decide :nono:

Yes it is. I can't wait. Of course, by the time the next general election comes around Corbyn will be long gone, I reckon.

[joeysteele]

That's for the voters to decide :nono:

It is indeed, and being totally honest, I don't expect him to lead Labour into the 2020 election but the thing I do now solidly expect is that his legacy will be the policies he has brought in as to his time of Labour leader.
So for him, that would be a win win anyway.

Then again, depending on what mess is left after this EU referendum, the Conservatives themselves could be in such a state that they may well be the ones unelectable under anyone.
They could well then be in a very damaging,tricky and problematic leadership election just before the 2010 election too.
Beware what one hopes for, it can backfire.

[Vicky.]

Because they know he's unelectable.

I don't think its this. I mean, I honestly cannot see him ever being Prime Minister, but if this was the reason for it all...there would be no point. They twist everything he says in this vicious campaign against him. Yes he does say a lot of dodgy things, but a lot of pretty innocent comments are made out to compare him to the devil or something. Its insane. I don't see why this would happen simply because he is unelectable tbh...

Even Cameron doesn't get as much stick and he is actually PM..who its all usually targetted at. Him getting a ****ing blowjob from a pig (I know thats not actually what happened, but its pretty damn close) was blown under the carpet in a few days, by the press at least...if it had been Corbyn, it would still be headlines now :laugh:

[arista]

That's for the voters to decide :nono:


If it is JC in 2020
its predicted that some Labour will vote Conservative

[Kizzy]

Absolutely Vicky there is nothing that Corbyn has done that would make him unsuitable, it's simply the propaganda, spin and lies that the media over inflate. Meanwhile as you say the grandstanding tories stand there teflon coated, I have no idea why it is just generally accepted that they will make some have arsed explanation for everything they do and it is just accepted, either that or there is no explanation whatsoever and the issue just blows away....

[Kizzy]

If it is JC in 2020
its predicted that some Labour will vote Conservative

2020 is a very long way off, it is Impossible to predict that.

[Kizzy]

The Fire Brigades Union has voted to affiliate to Labour today – having cut ties with the party over a decade ago in 2004. And it was for good reason, too.

In 2002, our union launched a campaign for improved pay. Regardless of the merits of our case, what shocked firefighters was the level of hostility we encountered from many Labour politicians, including from those leading the party. This included, on one occasion, being described as fascists. And even though an apology was made, the damage had been done.

Since then the union has maintained good relations with many Labour politicians, particularly those on the left. With John McDonnell, we established a parliamentary group which has consistently raised fire service issue in Westminster and which has stood with firefighters on a range of issues, including when we challenged the Blair/Brown government over its mis-named 'modernisation' agenda.

So when Jeremy Corbyn announced he would run for the Labour leadership, it was not a controversial idea that we should back him. Corbyn has a very long record of supporting firefighters, going back to 1977. Indeed, just last year we marked his long contribution by presenting him with one of our long service badges. We backed him initially despite the fact that we were not affiliated, and at the time we weren’t at all sure he would win the leadership elections.'

It is important to stand up for what you believe in and your principles ...even if they go against the party line... For the greater good.



http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/firefighters-have-come-back-to-labour-today-because-we-finally-found-a-leader-worth-backing-in-a6751681.html

[arista]

JC is live on Marr soon
BBC1HD

[arista]

The Last PMQ's on now

JC is attacking the PM on Hospital delays

[Vicky.]

The Last PMQ's on now

JC is attacking the PM on Hospital delays

Hospital delays?!

I have been out 6 weeks. They have now decided I need to go back today (I got the letter at 12pm...appointment was at 9am :rolleyes: ) I have no idea what it was for. I have another bloody appointment 2 days before xmas for a further op that I know nothing about and cant get an answer for. Then 4th january and then again on 22nd. The only one I know about is the 22nd which is stent removal from their previous mess up.

Delays, there is to start with. But once they get their claws into you you are never away from the ****ing place. This is now 4 operations (all are surgical centre appointments, and I have been calling all day and no answer yet), 3 of which I don't even know what they are for! Bloody ridiculous :laugh:

[arista]

['Labour may not survive under Corbyn,'
says Blair's ex-advisor as he predicts
party may split
Tony Blair's ex-strategist Peter Hyman
claims Labour may need to split
Mr Hyman suggested a new party
may be necessary taking in Lib Dems
New party needed to fill 'gaping hole'
in centre and centre-left of UK politics
Corbyn has said he is 'not going anywhere'
as he prepares to mark 100 days as Labour leader]


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3367651/Labour-not-survive-Corbyn-party-need-split-form-new-centre-politics-party-Lib-Dems-says-ex-Blair-advisor.html#ixzz3urrb5Rhq

[Kizzy]

So all the accusations of 'tory lites' were bang on?

[arista]

'I'm here to stay,' says Corbyn as he tells
Labour MPs that Emails to party members
asking their opinion will help
set policy on nuclear weapons]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3368699/Corbyn-tells-Labour-MPs-EMAILS-help-set-party-policy-nuclear-weapons.html#ixzz3uxaJSUz3


Yes JC, I get you
but all the New Labour Crew
are Pro Nuke Subs
you would have to have a 2nd party
and no one wants that

[arista]

JC gave soft New Year Message
Keep Up the good work


Video Here
http://news.sky.com/video/1614672/jeremy-corbyns-new-year-message

[arista]

JC has his mantra
but the New Labour Gang
will not change their view.

So what have you got inward fighting
for 5 years?

[arista]

Labour in a Death Spiral. Political Editor said

Ref: Editors Unplugged : a special that was SkyNewsHD
last night.


4 Editors / Presenters talk truth from what they viewed
such inspiration.

[arista]

JC was good at PMQ's Live today
asking Dave about Floods
but none of his questions got full answers

[joeysteele]

JC was good at PMQ's Live today
asking Dave about Floods
but none of his questions got full answers


None of the questions got any answers as usual,it usually is terrible to watch anyway but today was even more chronic.

[arista]

[/B]

None of the questions got any answers as usual,it usually is terrible to watch anyway but today was even more chronic.



Its the Labour Party Internal War
creating a STUPID distraction.

JC should never have pre leaked the changes
that early
it backfired

Maybe it was his "Manager" Son ?

[joeysteele]

Its the Labour Party Internal War
creating a STUPID distraction.

JC should never have pre leaked the changes
that early
it backfired

Maybe it was his "Manager" Son ?

There are obvious distractions.
However it is time this PM realised it is PMQs, where he is asked questions and does not ask them himself.
Also that he then answered the questions put and not go off on pre-rehearsed speeches of things totally unrelated to actual points of the question put to him.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/07/21/2FE45A2600000578-0-image-a-3_1452202549249.jpg
Extremists tell students to sabotage government anti-terror drive - as Corbyn girl backs fanatics and says 'laws should be broken'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3389527/Two-hours-extremist-bile-sinister-speaker-Corbyn-girl-backed-fanatics-against-Government-anti-terror-drive-saying-laws-broken.html#ixzz3wjAu2g1X


JC - you do not need to get Tangled in Criminals
it will Back Fire Fella

[arista]

There are obvious distractions.
However it is time this PM realised it is PMQs, where he is asked questions and does not ask them himself.
Also that he then answered the questions put and not go off on pre-rehearsed speeches of things totally unrelated to actual points of the question put to him.



Joey
no - this one
is not going on after 2020.
So it will stay this way
sadly.

[joeysteele]

Joey
no - this one
is not going on after 2020.
So it will stay this way
sadly.

Very sadly it will.
You are right as to this PM knowing he will not be facing the voters again in 2020.

[Kizzy]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/07/21/2FE45A2600000578-0-image-a-3_1452202549249.jpg
Extremists tell students to sabotage government anti-terror drive - as Corbyn girl backs fanatics and says 'laws should be broken'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3389527/Two-hours-extremist-bile-sinister-speaker-Corbyn-girl-backed-fanatics-against-Government-anti-terror-drive-saying-laws-broken.html#ixzz3wjAu2g1X


JC - you do not need to get Tangled in Criminals
it will Back Fire Fella

As tenuous links go the mail are the tenuousist... lol

[bots]

The labour MP's comment the other day is correct. Corbyn is turning the labour party in to a protest organisation, and thats never going to win an election

[Oliver_W]

Like the Daleks say: No attack, no defense, no plan.


He's a bit of a hypocrite as well, he consistently voted against his party, but when his Shadow Cabinet vote against him, the have the threat of a reshuffle hanging over them?

[lostalex]

Brown, Ed, Corbyn....3 flops in a row...

I miss Tony Blair!

[kirklancaster]

Like the Daleks say: No attack, no defense, no plan.


He's a bit of a hypocrite as well, he consistently voted against his party, but when his Shadow Cabinet vote against him, the have the threat of a reshuffle hanging over them?

:clap1::clap1::clap1: What a great point.

[Toy Soldier]

The labour MP's comment the other day is correct. Corbyn is turning the labour party in to a protest organisation, and thats never going to win an election

Where is the line between protest and opposition? I personally think we've just become to used to "opposition" parties who are only in opposition over a few minor issues, and otherwise both main parties conforming to the same old status quo on other issues.

[MTVN]

Corbyn is definitely trying to take control of the party, reports today that the NEC might become the ones to form party policy over Trident rather than the shadow cabinet. Not surprising really, for all the talk of consensus the left are not going to pass on an opportunity to like this to re-establish control after being sidelined for the best part of 20 odd years

[joeysteele]

The presentation of this by the media is bordering on the hysterical at times.

However, there are elements of the Parliamentary party who are 'enjoying' causing disruption.
Sadly for them they come across as bad losers.

I am dismayed at the situation there is in the Party at present because it allows this heartless shower in govt. now to get away with even more.
A fair number of those causing the problems and loading the guns for other to fire, were part of the team who actually lost the last election,who couldn't convince voters to stay with Labour and back them more.
They should quite simply shut up and get over their pathetic sulking.

There are many things I would disagree with Corbyn on myself but he is the leader of the party, under rules and the electoral process, these whingers supported to be put in place too.
Of course the media love this as they will when the EU referendum is in play and then dealing with the chaos after that as to the Conservative party.
Already starting there is the should Cameron stay, if he proposes remaining in then the vote is to leave.
Watch that space.

Corbyn has every right to appoint anyone he wants to his Cabinet, just as Cameron does.
Whether voters agree with his choices or not, that is for them to look at and listen to what they say and want to do.

He is not going anywhere, yet, any new election for leader could maybe see him win in an even bigger way.
He does have to get that debate on Trident out the way and have a Party policy as to that but as was said on TV today, many Unions will not be supporting the scrapping of Trident either.
The Labour party is not a dictatorship, rules and guidelines have to be followed before anyone can alter anything and Conference can still wield considerable power as to thwarting leaders positions, as it did often in the past too.

The NEC cannot just be given authority to determine Trident policy, it will have to be done by informed and consulted debate.
Corbyn cannot just make that happen.

That would really cause a massive internal rift which would be also totally against the Labour party rules anyway.
As the media too know full well.
However even just the impression of it happening gives good storylines for them to harp on about.

[Johnnyuk123]

The presentation of this by the media is bordering on the hysterical at times.

However, there are elements of the Parliamentary party who are 'enjoying' causing disruption.
Sadly for them they comer across as bad losers.

I am dismayed at the situation there is in the Party at present because it allows this heartless shower in govt. now to get away with even more.
A fair number of those causing the problems and loading the guns for other to fire, were part of the team who actually lost the last election,who couldn't convince voters to stay with Labour and back them more.
They should quite simple shut up and get over their pathetic sulking.

There are many things I would disagree with Corbyn on myself but he is the leader of the party, under rules and the electoral process, these whingers supported to be put in place too.
Of course the media love this as they will when the EU referendum is in play and then dealing with the chaos after that as to the Conservative party.
Already starting there is the should Cameron stay, if he proposes remaining in then the vote is to leave.
Watch that space.

Corbyn has every right to appoint anyone he wants to his Cabinet, just as Cameron does.
Whether voters agree with his choices or not, that is for them to look at and listen to what they say and want to do.

He is not going anywhere, yet, any new election for leader could maybe see him win in an even bigger way.
He does have to get that debate on Trident out the way and have a Party policy as to that but as was said on TV today, many Unions will not be supporting the scrapping of Trident either.
The Labour party is not a dictatorship, rules and guidelines have to be followed before anyone can alter anything and Conference can still wield considerable power as to thwarting leaders positions, as it did often in the past too.

The NEC cannot just be given authority to determine Trident policy, it will have to be done by informed and consulted debate.
Corbyn cannot just make that happen.

That would really cause a massive internal rift which would be also totally against the Labour party rules anyway.
As the media too know full well.
However even just the impression of it happening gives good storylines for them to harp on about.

The labour party are arguing with themselves right now. That reflection is all too clear for the GREAT British public NOT to see. The public don't want total idiots in charge of the country. That is why labour now has more chance of winning the national lottery than winning the next general elction. The guy in charge of the labour party is a total bell end.

[joeysteele]

The labour party are arguing with themselves right now. That reflection is all too clear for the GREAT British public NOT to see. The public don't want total idiots in charge of the country. That is why labour now has more chance of winning the national lottery than winning the next general elction. The guy in charge of the labour party is a total bell end.

Probably massively wasting my time here but I disagree not unsurprisingly.
You it seems have not the slightest hope of or wish to see Labour ever winning any election anyway.

I think by the time the 2020 election arrives, there will in fact be both main parties with great difficulties, that is if Jeremy Corbyn is still leader by then.

Which I would not put money on myself,I would worry more if I was a Conservative now, as to just who actually does get the reigns from Cameron.
I also think myself, that when David Cameron stands down, that is when a probable new election for a Labour leader will come again too.
However,a legacy that I hope is left from Corbyn's leadership are more of his more just and compassionate ideas remaining as firm Party policy..

[Kizzy]

Probably massively wasting my time here but I disagree not unsurprisingly.
You it seems have not the slightest hope of or wish to see Labour ever winning any election anyway.

I think by the time the 2020 election arrives, there will in fact be both main parties with great difficulties, that is if Jeremy Corbyn is still leader by then.

Which I would not put money on myself,I would worry more if I was a Conservative now, as to just who actually does get the reigns from Cameron.
I also think myself, that when David Cameron stands down, that is when a probable new election for a Labour leader will come again too.
However,a legacy that I hope is left from Corbyn's leadership are more of his more just and compassionate ideas remaining as firm Party policy..

:clap1: :clap1: Great sentiments Joey, I agree!

[Johnnyuk123]

Probably massively wasting my time here but I disagree not unsurprisingly.
You it seems have not the slightest hope of or wish to see Labour ever winning any election anyway.

I think by the time the 2020 election arrives, there will in fact be both main parties with great difficulties, that is if Jeremy Corbyn is still leader by then.

Which I would not put money on myself,I would worry more if I was a Conservative now, as to just who actually does get the reigns from Cameron.
I also think myself, that when David Cameron stands down, that is when a probable new election for a Labour leader will come again too.
However,a legacy that I hope is left from Corbyn's leadership are more of his more just and compassionate ideas remaining as firm Party policy..

When Corbyn goes makes no difference. Or whoever takes over. The labour party is in a shambles and that comes from their own MP's. Even Ed Milliband hates Corbyn and that says a lot coming from such a none entity as Ed.

[joeysteele]

When Corbyn goes makes no difference. Or whoever takes over. The labour party is in a shambles and that comes from their own MP's. Even Ed Milliband hates Corbyn and that says a lot coming from such a none entity as Ed.

I can assure you that as a Labour party member myself, that Ed Miliband does not 'hate' Corbyn as you put it, not at all.
Don't believe all you read in the papers,I rarely ever do.

Also from a shambles the only progress that can be made is upwards and getting sorted, indeed most times from a shambles and breakdown comes an actual highly positive breakthrough in the end.

I'd rather Labour has its shambles now and get sorted over the next 2 to 3 years and then let the other shambles come about in the other Party just in time for the next election after the EU referendum particularly.
Which will not in the slightest now divide Labour in any real negative way as it did in the 1970/80s.

It may be very surprising indeed at the next election, as to just which of the two main Parties is the real one badly divided at that time.

[Johnnyuk123]

I can assure you that as a Labour party member myself, that Ed Miliband does not 'hate' Corbyn as you put it, not at all.
Don't believe all you read in the papers,I rarely ever do.

Also from a shambles the only progress that can be made is upwards and getting sorted, indeed most times from a shambles and breakdown comes an actual highly positive breakthrough in the end.

I'd rather Labour has its shambles now and get sorted over the next 2 to 3 years and then let the other shambles come about in the other Party just in time for the next election after the EU referendum particularly.
Which will not in the slightest now divide Labour in any real negative way as it did in the 1970/80s.

It may be very surprising at the next election, as to just which of the two main Parties is the real one badly divided at that time.

Seriously if you think that the labour party are getting into power at the next general election you are living on cloud cookoo land.:joker:

[Johnnyuk123]

I can assure you that as a Labour party member myself, that Ed Miliband does not 'hate' Corbyn as you put it, not at all.
Don't believe all you read in the papers,I rarely ever do.

Also from a shambles the only progress that can be made is upwards and getting sorted, indeed most times from a shambles and breakdown comes an actual highly positive breakthrough in the end.

I'd rather Labour has its shambles now and get sorted over the next 2 to 3 years and then let the other shambles come about in the other Party just in time for the next election after the EU referendum particularly.
Which will not in the slightest now divide Labour in any real negative way as it did in the 1970/80s.

It may be very surprising indeed at the next election, as to just which of the two main Parties is the real one badly divided at that time.

I paid £3 just to have a vote to get the idiot elected.:wavey:

[joeysteele]

Seriously if you think that the labour party are getting into power at the next general election you are living on cloud cookoo land.:joker:

Elections can have the oddest outcomes.
In fact,anyone who tries to speak with any certainty as to what the state of the Parties will be in even just one year from now,never mind 4 and a half years time,well they are more likely the ones living in the land you describe.

[Kizzy]

Elections can have the oddest outcomes.
In fact,anyone who tries to speak with any certainty as to what the state of the Parties will be in even just one year from now,never mind 4 and a half years time,well they are more likely the ones living in the land you describe.

Yes you would have to have a crystal ball to predict anything for 2020, not much point speculating anything could happen :)

[joeysteele]

I paid £3 just to have a vote to get the idiot elected.:wavey:

The Labour party will always be grateful to all those who gave them all those £3 payments.
As would any party.

I myself however would never want to now get involved in any way in Conservative politics so even if they ever had a similar system, I would hold onto my principles and have nothing to do with it.

However it may well be, those £3 payments end up allowing Labour to have some proper separate identity in an election again and by the time 2020 comes around another Leader who can maybe better present and sell those policies.
What goes round comes round.

[Johnnyuk123]

I can assure you that as a Labour party member myself, that Ed Miliband does not 'hate' Corbyn as you put it, not at all.
Don't believe all you read in the papers,I rarely ever do.

Also from a shambles the only progress that can be made is upwards and getting sorted, indeed most times from a shambles and breakdown comes an actual highly positive breakthrough in the end.

I'd rather Labour has its shambles now and get sorted over the next 2 to 3 years and then let the other shambles come about in the other Party just in time for the next election after the EU referendum particularly.
Which will not in the slightest now divide Labour in any real negative way as it did in the 1970/80s.

It may be very surprising indeed at the next election, as to just which of the two main Parties is the real one badly divided at that time.


Corbyn hates the Queen, showed his arrogance toward her live on national tv. No tridents with that fool in charge, he even refuses to press the buttons on a lift so how anyone can take this fool seriously on protecting the UK whilst he panders to his islamic hate preacher friends is anyones guess. .:joker:

[Johnnyuk123]

The Labour party will always be grateful to all those who gave them all those £3 payments.
As would any party.

I myself however would never want to now get involved in any way in Conservative politics so even if they ever had a similar system, I would hold onto my principles and have nothing to do with it.

However it may well be, those £3 payments end up allowing Labour to have some proper separate identity in an election again and by the time 2020 comes around another Leader who can maybe better present and sell those policies.
What goes round comes round.

So your already admitting Corbyn is a gonner?

[joeysteele]

Corbyn hates the Queen, showed his arrogance toward her live on national tv. No tridents with that fool in charge, he even refuses to press the buttons on a lift so how anyone can take this fool seriously on protecting the UK whilst he panders to his islamic hate preacher friends is anyones guess. .:joker:

I think we have exhausted conversation to be honest, Corbyn does not hate the Queen, he hates the system, not her personally.
Your rant above is not worth a response really.

If all you can do is shout irrational Corbyn hates this one and that one, and other MPs hate this one and that one.
All I will say is,you will find politics is a cut throat profession and in fact likely the minority of those in Politics, ever really like each other as to MPs in all Parties anyway.

[Johnnyuk123]

David Caneron is an honest man doing the great british public a great service. he has proved himself time and time again. I rest my case.

[Johnnyuk123]

I think we have exhausted conversation to be honest, Corbyn does not hate the Queen, he hates the system, not her personally.
Your rant above is not worth a response really.

If all you can do is shout irrational Corbyn hates this one and that one, and other MPs hate this one and that one.
All I will say is,you will find politics is a cut throat profession and in fact likely the minority of those in Politics, ever really like each other as to MPs in all Parties anyway.

And you need to digest the fact that the tory party are in charge of the country.

[joeysteele]

So your already admitting Corbyn is a gonner?

No, not at all and the majority of the policies he wants to make Labour's are certainly not.

I do not however think I would put money on him leading Labour into the 2020 election that's all,that does not mean he will not leave his mark from his leadership.
Which unlike you,I do not think will actually be that negative.

[Johnnyuk123]

The public have spoken MASSIVELY at the last election. Tory party is in control. Agreed?

[Kizzy]

The public have spoken MASSIVELY at the last election. Tory party is in control. Agreed?

37% :/

[Johnnyuk123]

No, not at all and the majority of the policies he wants to make Labour's are certainly not.

I do not however think I would put money on him leading Labour into the 2020 election that's all,that does not mean he will not leave his mark from his leadership.
Which unlike you,I do not think will actually be that negative.

Unlike you i am very positive. The tory party have been amazing for this country. David is a wonderful man. Has a wife too who is a looker btw. Does Corbyn have a wife or is he still dropping by Abbotts house every Thursday?

[joeysteele]

The public have spoken MASSIVELY at the last election. Tory party is in control. Agreed?

Thanks to the very far South of England yes,and also the massive decline of the Lib Dems, otherwise the answer would have been a firm NO and in fact,they may have not even been able to form a govt. at all either had that decline as to the Lib Dems not come about.

I don't think a 12 overall majority signifies voters speaking massively, when the loss of only 7 by elections would make them a minority govt.
Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair got the voters speaking massively for them, not David Cameron.
So no not at all, from the around 30+% the Conservatives got in 1997, David Cameron only achieved after 18 years for the Conservatives around a 6% increase in votes cast in May 2015.
Hardly a massive turnaround at all, just barely enough to have absolute power but no way massive.
Rather an over exaggeration that in my view.

Anyway goodnight for now, I have actually enjoyed debating with you.
Oh and thanks for the £3 donation to the Labour party too in the leadership election,it all goes to party funds.

[joeysteele]

Unlike you i am very positive. The tory party have been amazing for this country. David is a wonderful man. Has a wife too who is a looker btw. Does Corbyn have a wife or is he still dropping by Abbotts house every Thursday?

I'd rather visit Corbyn than go anywhere near the Camerons for any reason,sorry.

[Johnnyuk123]

I'd rather visit Corbyn than go anywhere near the Camerons for any reason,sorry.

The uk do not share your thoughts. Simples.:wavey:

[arista]

The uk do not share your thoughts. Simples.:wavey:


So say New Labour side
and all who Work Hard

Its split the Labour Party.

And Joey must understand
Dave is not staying in his Great Job
after 2020.


So JC is plodding along at PMQ's
with "I have a question from
another caller..... Johnny wants to know
why he can not earn enough to feed his dog?"


The whole House Laughs


JC do your Job stop all this Gimmick
it does not work.

[bots]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/145B3/production/_87597338_corbyn_twitter.jpg

Apparently Corbyn's twitter account has been hacked :laugh:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35278120

[MTVN]

More like Corbyn had had one too many of those vegan smoothies again

[joeysteele]

The uk do not share your thoughts. Simples.:wavey:

Actually it appears from those who voted in the election that 63.2% do share my thoughts as to that,particularly as to the Camerons.
We cannot say what the % is for Corbyn as he was not leader at the May election.
We have to wait years to see how he would do.

On the voting statistics for may, 36.8% supported Cameron's Conservatives which actually means as I pointed out earlier that 63.2% did not.
So where you come up with saying the UK is solidly behind him sort of mystifies me.
He was only 6.3% ahead of Labour too so hardly a massive endorsement.

[joeysteele]

His twitter account was hacked, pure and simple and no story.
One wonders how it is so easy for this to keep happening to twitter,time they sorted it out.

[bots]

Statistics are a wonderful thing. Of that 63%, many could have supported Cameron, but didn't bother to vote, many could have supported Cameron, but on balance chose to allocate their vote to a local personal mp ...

The conservatives won in a democratic election, that's really all we have to go on, and more than that, it was at that particular snapshot in time.

[Toy Soldier]

The conservatives won in a democratic election, that's really all we have to go on, and more than that, it was at that particular snapshot in time.

This is one this that does particularly bother me about democracy. Over the space of a few months, even a few weeks, public opinion on all sorts of things flows in all sorts of directions. So you can never really be sure that the people are well represented at all... all you can be sure of is that they were represented on that one day.

[joeysteele]

Statistics are a wonderful thing. Of that 63%, many could have supported Cameron, but didn't bother to vote, many could have supported Cameron, but on balance chose to allocate their vote to a local personal mp ...

The conservatives won in a democratic election, that's really all we have to go on, and more than that, it was at that particular snapshot in time.

I went on that fact, it was the other guy who said that I was in the minority when in fact as to the 2 main party leaders in the May election,there was little between them from the voters and none seemingly attracting any great number of voters such as Thatcher and Blair managed to.

63.2% of those who voted did not vote for Cameron to be PM,that is hardly the whole UK endorsing him.
Had the Lib Dem vote not crashed too.then I wonder what his tally may have been then.
They lost 49 seats in may 2015 and a massive 26 of their seats fell to the Conservatives.

We can only follow what those who actually voted did in an election,enough voted Conservative to make them the govt but no way was anywhere near the majority of the voters and in fact no way was it anywhere near even half of those who voted too.
So to make a point that the UK supports Cameron,when N Ireland probably wouldn't,Wales and Scotland certainly wouldn't for starters, is at best misleading.
That's before the breaking up of England's figures too.

There is a massive schism of voters actions from the rest of the UK including England and most of the main Cities of England,in the extreme far South of England only,where across the whole area of heel, sole and toes of England in that far South, now only 4 seats are not won by the Conservatives.
Almost totally at odds with the rest of the UK.

[arista]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/145B3/production/_87597338_corbyn_twitter.jpg

Apparently Corbyn's twitter account has been hacked :laugh:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35278120


How Nice


Its about time his Young Son (JC's manager)
got up at 4AM Like I have to

[bots]

Labour's McKinnell quits shadow cabinet

Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell has resigned from the shadow cabinet, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn.

Ms McKinnell said Labour was heading down an "increasingly negative path" and that she was concerned about recent "internal conflict".

With a "heavy heart", she said she believed she could better serve Labour from the backbenches.

She is the fourth MP to quit the front bench since the recent reshuffle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35281203

------

Tick tock ....

[joeysteele]

Labour's McKinnell quits shadow cabinet

Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell has resigned from the shadow cabinet, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn.

Ms McKinnell said Labour was heading down an "increasingly negative path" and that she was concerned about recent "internal conflict".

With a "heavy heart", she said she believed she could better serve Labour from the backbenches.

She is the fourth MP to quit the front bench since the recent reshuffle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35281203

------

Tick tock ....


She only just joined it not long ago,there has been conflict since Corbyn's election,so what is she on about.
I am sure some Labour MPs are just enjoying 'helping to create' more drama.

She may have talent but for me the likes of these people are as bad as anything they may disagree with.
She chose a very bad day to do it however if she hoped to get any great deal of publicity.

[arista]

Labour's McKinnell quits shadow cabinet

Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell has resigned from the shadow cabinet, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn.

Ms McKinnell said Labour was heading down an "increasingly negative path" and that she was concerned about recent "internal conflict".

With a "heavy heart", she said she believed she could better serve Labour from the backbenches.

She is the fourth MP to quit the front bench since the recent reshuffle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35281203

------

Tick tock ....


Yes on Daily Politics today
showing Labour going down and down



Tick tock
is moving faster

[arista]

She only just joined it not long ago,there has been conflict since Corbyn's election,so what is she on about.
I am sure some Labour MPs are just enjoying 'helping to create' more drama.

She may have talent but for me the likes of these people are as bad as anything they may disagree with.
She chose a very bad day to do it however if she hoped to get any great deal of publicity.

Does not work like that.
Have you been in Parliament
I have, and its shocking
they would not stop looking
at my, Shock Front Page
of my Paper I had with me.


I was there with the fella
who is now in China
and my current Co-Manager

[kirklancaster]

Along with others on here, I have said from the start that Corbyn will not last.

Either he will disappear without trace or the Labour Party as we know/knew it will, and I KNOW which I prefer.

We NEED the Labour Party, we DO NOT need Corbyn.

[kirklancaster]

Labour's McKinnell quits shadow cabinet

Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell has resigned from the shadow cabinet, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn.

Ms McKinnell said Labour was heading down an "increasingly negative path" and that she was concerned about recent "internal conflict".

With a "heavy heart", she said she believed she could better serve Labour from the backbenches.

She is the fourth MP to quit the front bench since the recent reshuffle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35281203

------

Tick tock ....

:laugh: Could not help but laugh at this BOTS.

[arista]

Along with others on here, I have said from the start that Corbyn will not last.

Either he will disappear without trace or the Labour Party as we know/knew it will, and I KNOW which I prefer.

We NEED the Labour Party, we DO NOT need Corbyn.


But he is not Giving it Up
there are the Left Side Vs New Labour Side,

Tonight is a PPL massive Labour meeting
without JC - so Press on Daily Politics say.

Tomorrow Front Pages
David Bowie
and if any more run away
from this current Labour mess.

We will see at 10:30PM tonight

[kirklancaster]

More like Corbyn had had one too many of those vegan smoothies again

:laugh:

[arista]

PMQ's

JC put forward simple maths
but the PM was not having it
and avoided his direct well researched question.


So Joey
no change
as like last week

Sign Of The Times

[lostalex]

I'm sick of his nonsense.

Doesn't the Queen have some sort of covert assassination she can do for this type of situation?

[arista]

I'm sick of his nonsense.

Doesn't the Queen have some sort of covert assassination she can do for this type of situation?



No the SAS
protect her

MP's are outside of their zone

[lostalex]

No the SAS
protect her

MP's are outside of their zone

assassination for the asinine. it should be in royal code.

[Kizzy]

Jeremy Corbyn’s hopes of remoulding Labour have been boosted by a detailed Guardian survey into the party at grassroots level that shows overwhelming support for him, a decisive shift to the left and unhappiness with squabbling among MPs.

The Guardian has interviewed Labour secretaries, chairs, other office holders and members from more than 100 of the 632 constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales. Almost every constituency party across the country we contacted reported doubling, trebling, quadrupling or even quintupling membership, and a revival of branches that had been moribund for years and close to folding.
Reflecting increased interest among the young, university cities and towns recorded some of the biggest rises, with Bath jumping from 300 to 1,322 members and Colchester from 200-250 to almost 1,000. Neither are traditional Labour seats.

The survey findings are borne out by Labour’s national figures, released to the Guardian in a break with party tradition of keeping them secret. Membership jumped from 201,293 on 6 May last year, the day before the general election, to 388,407 on 10 January.

Party membership figures are a controversial issue, with the former cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who is opposed to Corbyn, telling a Labour meeting in the Lords last month that “30,000 long-term members have left the party, real members, tens of thousands”.

But the newly released figures undermine his claim, showing a total of 13,860 have left since the general election, some of them having resigned while others have gone as part of natural churn. The increase in membership is continuing, with just under 1,000 having joined since Christmas Eve.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/13/revealed-how-jeremy-corbyn-has-reshaped-the-labour-party

[Johnnyuk123]

Jeremy Corbyn is still on track to suffer a far greater defeat than Ed Milliband did at the next general election. Corbyn's popularity percentage also took a another nose dive. His popularity now is so low that he has over taken the much hated Michael Foot who was the least popular labour leader. Corbyn now holds that crown with Foot dropping into 2nd place.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/01/how-jeremy-corbyns-labour-faring-elections-so-far

[Toy Soldier]

Jeremy Corbyn is still on track to suffer a far greater defeat than Ed Milliband did at the next general election.

:joker: It's less than a year since the last one, and 4+ until the next... making this sort of prediction is Mystic Meg stuff. Corbyn will probably have died of old age by then, and who knows what else will have happened in politics.

[arista]

He was Live
only on SkyNewsHD
from Glasgow


Talking about Employed Folks Rights

Not live now.




Why can the BBC not get the same live link?
I know its the bbc1 news now
but the Fecking BBCNews Ch can have the Live Corbyn Link on


Paxman warned about BBC doing this

[arista]

Well Done Ch4HD News
for giving a Balanced report JC

like SkyNewsHD does.

BBC are not balanced at all.


Now Soon JC will have No Choice
to Debate Trident with his Own MPs

Trident with his OWN MPs
matters like Life and Death does

I still can see good in JC
but he must decide with his Own MPs
on Trident - no way can it get kicked into long grass

[joeysteele]

Well Done Ch4HD News
for giving a Balanced report JC

like SkyNewsHD does.

BBC are not balanced at all.


Now Soon JC will have No Choice
to Debate Trident with his Own MPs

Trident with his OWN MPs
matters like Life and Death does

I still can see good in JC
but he must decide with his Own MPs
on Trident - no way can it get kicked into long grass



I totally agree with that.

[arista]

JC is Live on MARR bbc1 and BBC1HD in a min

once clegg stops moaning

[arista]

feck Me Marr
you let JC Fudge it.

How stupidly keeps going on a Dream
that all nation with stop nuke bombs


"I fecking jumped in the Air"
as it Aint going to happen


MARR gave his a gentle talk.



Paxman Get On Ch4HD news start with your grilling of JC

[arista]

End bit on MARR

JC said do not Ban Trump

You are Most Wise on that JC

[Kizzy]

The JC keeping it pacifist, bit like the original JC eh? Aw look, I've come over all songs of praise ...bless me.

[kirklancaster]

The REAL J.C. said "Turn the other cheek" NOT "Bend over for your enemies and open up your butt cheeks for them".

[Northern Monkey]

The REAL J.C. said "Turn the other cheek" NOT "Bend over for your enemies and open up your butt cheeks for them".

:laugh:

[joeysteele]

It was a good interview, I would have liked as arista would, a more challenging approach but I really don't think Corbyn was saying anything different than he has said already.
I liked a lot of what he said however.

[Johnnyuk123]

The REAL J.C. said "Turn the other cheek" NOT "Bend over for your enemies and open up your butt cheeks for them".

I like the bloke inspite of who he represents tbh. They should hire him out for childrens parties. Kids love clowns.:joker::joker::joker:

[smudgie]

The more I watch him the more he reminds me of my Uncle Stan.
Just needs the pipe and slippers.

[arista]

The JC keeping it pacifist, bit like the original JC eh? Aw look, I've come over all songs of praise ...bless me.


Yes Kizzy
but the Vast Amount Labour MPs
want Nuke weapons are not changing

He is a Fool to think
his way can win,
Its Enough to Split the Labour Party.

JC as the PM
will let nukes destroy us
he will not push any button
We all DIE

[Johnnyuk123]

Yes Kizzy
but the Vast Amount Labour MPs
want Nuke weapons are not changing

He is a Fool to think
his way can win,
Its Enough to Split the Labour Party.

JC as the PM
will let nukes destroy us
he will not push any button
We all DIE

When it comes to protecting the people of the UK this man is a complete joke, he has clearly shown the UK that he will let them all die rather than press the button to protect them. Thankfully he is unelectable so this will never be an issue.

[Kizzy]

Let's all live a life of paranoid terror then :/

[joeysteele]

Yes Kizzy
but the Vast Amount Labour MPs
want Nuke weapons are not changing

He is a Fool to think
his way can win,
Its Enough to Split the Labour Party.

JC as the PM
will let nukes destroy us
he will not push any button
We all DIE

We will all probably die if it is pushed too.
Except perhaps some well protected elite.

[arista]

We will all probably die if it is pushed too.
Except perhaps some well protected elite.


No as 1 nuke hits in UK
3 fired back fast
Ends it.


A PM & 2nd army chief would be ready to go ahead
after one hit.

Its not just Elites who have Bunkers
Others do
due to knowledge through contacts
that have a better picture on this whole
possible attacks.

There are many outcomes , of course , Joey
but UK Public demand a PM that will Fire back
its common sense.

JC could never become PM
due to His own brick wall View on trident
its sad - he must change his view
or Split Labour Up.

[Northern Monkey]

The whole point of having Trident is so we don't have to use it.It is in constant use as we speak.No other country would try and invade us because us and France have it.Afterall our army and navy are no deterent these days.JC in charge of our nuclear deterent and saying he would never use it stops it from being a deterent and cuts the balls off the country.The rest of Europe relies on the UK and France having this deterent and scrapping it could potentially leave Europe open to attack.God help us all if Corbyn somehow became our PM.Not to mention he does'nt believe we should be a part of NATO and has voted against any military action that has ever been taken in his career.Sometimes action has to be taken.JC cannot be trusted to make the important security decisions a country needs to make.

[kirklancaster]

No one wants to die prematurely, but I would rather do so knowing the bastards responsible were also on their way to oblivion.

And there is such a thing as a 'pre-emptive strike' if our Intelligence Services advise that we are extremely likely to be nuked.

Safety - like charity - for me begins 'at home'.

[kirklancaster]

The whole point of having Trident is so we don't have to use it.It is in constant use as we speak.No other country would try and invade us because us and France have it.Afterall our army and navy are no deterent these days.JC in charge of our nuclear deterent and saying he would never use it stops it from being a deterent and cuts the balls off the country.The rest of Europe relies on the UK and France having this deterent and scrapping it could potentially leave Europe open to attack.God help us all if Corbyn somehow became our PM.Not to mention he does'nt believe we should be a part of NATO and has voted against any military action that has ever been taken in his career.Sometimes action has to be taken.JC cannot be trusted to make the important security decisions a country needs to make.

Great post Paul as usual. One thing I would add; is that Corbyn cannot be trusted - period.

[kirklancaster]

No as 1 nuke hits in UK
3 fired back fast
Ends it.


A PM & 2nd army chief would be ready to go ahead
after one hit.

Its not just Elites who have Bunkers
Others do
due to knowledge through contacts
that have a better picture on this whole
possible attacks.

There are many outcomes , of course , Joey
but UK Public deand a PM that will Fire back
its common sense.

JC could never become PM
due to His own brick wall View on trident
its sad - he must change his view
or Split Labour Up.

Brilliantly put Arista.

[kirklancaster]

Let's all live a life of paranoid terror then :/

The Left Wing have enough paranoia for all of us; one idiotic conspiracy after another idiotic conspiracy concerning our own Government, our own Military, our own people - blah de blah de blah.

And the only terror we non- Lefties might harbour, is at the thought that every anti-British terrorist's pal Corbyn might ever come to power. Ugh - what a real fecking nightmare.

[kirklancaster]

I like the bloke inspite of who he represents tbh. They should hire him out for childrens parties. Kids love clowns.:joker::joker::joker:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Thank you ever so much for sharing this Johnny, you are always right of course, and I must remember to always agree with you.

[Kizzy]

Hang on the whole concept of having nuclear is based on the conspiracy that it's needed, it isn't, France is 25 miles away if we were under threat don't you think they would act? They aren't living under a huge impenetrable dome :/.

[kirklancaster]

Hang on the whole concept of having nuclear is based on the conspiracy that it's needed, it isn't, France is 25 miles away if we were under threat don't you think they would act? They aren't living under a huge impenetrable dome :/.

Ahhh - That old Leftie ideology of gaining something without contributing something, of reliance on others to provide instead of self-sufficiency, of depending on the state instead of the self.

Why SHOULD the tax payers of France - or the USA for that matter - pay through the nose for a Nuclear Deterrent, only to use each multi-million pound missile to defend us when we are against defending ourselves?

Why should the French Government or any other, use their Nuclear Deterrent to RETALIATE on our behalf against some nuclear attack upon us when we have ELECTED NOT to have our own deterrent for whatever B.S reason, and when such retaliatory action would bring them into a Nuclear War which they otherwise may not be involved in?

So you morally OBJECT to us having our own Nuclear Deterrent, but you OBVIOUSLY have no such moral objections to the French having them, or to them USING them on our behalf.

[Kizzy]

If Europe was under attack then France has a deterrent, we can't afford one.
What is the vision for the UK, 4 shiny nuclear subs and 90% of the population living as serfs scratching a living? Not my idea of a future for my children.

[joeysteele]

Hang on the whole concept of having nuclear is based on the conspiracy that it's needed, it isn't, France is 25 miles away if we were under threat don't you think they would act? They aren't living under a huge impenetrable dome :/.

Well our so called nuclear deterrent is such that even if our PM wanted to press the button, they could not unless they had the agreement and permission of the USA.

The fact is, no matter the position of Corbyn, (it is the wider Labour party,(those probably seen,by those looking down their noses at them too), with the old leftie ideology,there that dig at those on the left again,who will be the overall decision makers after a full and inclusive debate in the Party, who will form the trident policy.

Emiiy Thornberry is against Trident as is Corbyn, she has however stated she will operate the machinery of the debate and consultation as to Trident in an open way.
That is fair in my view.

In fact I think all the other Parties should demand a referendum of the people on this, should we retain the Trident system as it is, reduce it or move to scrap Trident altogether.
Let's have a national debate and consultation on this,we can hold referenda for Independence of a part of the UK, we can hold referenda as to our future in the EU, why not hold one as to Trident too.

Or is the worry that voters will vote to scrap or reduce Trident I wonder.

[Kizzy]

Well our so called nuclear deterrent is such that even if our PM wanted to press the button, they could not unless they had the agreement and permission of the USA.

The fact is, no matter the position of Corbyn, (it is the wider Labour party,(those probably seen,by those looking down their noses at them too), with the old leftie ideology,there that dig at those on the left again,who will be the overall decision makers after a full and inclusive debate in the Party, who will form the trident policy.

Emiiy Thornberry is against Trident as is Corbyn, she has however stated she will operate the machinery of the debate and consultation as to Trident in an open way.
That is fair in my view.

In fact I think all the other Parties should demand a referendum of the people on this, should we retain the Trident system as it is, reduce it or move to scrap Trident altogether.
Let's have a national debate and consultation on this,we can hold referenda for Independence of a part of the UK, we can hold referenda as to out future in the EU, why not old one as to Trident too.

Or is the worry that voters will vote to scrap or reduce Trident I wonder.

What a rational, fair and valid point Joey, I agree.

[Northern Monkey]

"Well our so called nuclear deterrent is such that even if our PM wanted to press the button, they could not unless they had the agreement and permission of the USA."

This bit is just not true.We buy the Warheads from America and we get them maintained there.That's it.If it came down to it then our PM would make the decision on whether to use it.
Obviously if any NATO member wanted to use nukes however i would imagine there would have to be a vote or a unanimous agreement.

[joeysteele]

"Well our so called nuclear deterrent is such that even if our PM wanted to press the button, they could not unless they had the agreement and permission of the USA."

This bit is just not true.We buy the Warheads from America and we get them maintained there.That's it.If it came down to it then our PM would make the decision on whether to use it.
Obviously if any NATO member wanted to use nukes however i would imagine there would have to be a vote or a unanimous agreement.

Sorry but I dispute that.
Andrew Neill clearly pointed out in a daily politics programme on the issue that we could not independently push the button 'without' the agreement of the President of the USA.

[Northern Monkey]

If Europe was under attack then France has a deterrent, we can't afford one.
What is the vision for the UK, 4 shiny nuclear subs and 90% of the population living as serfs scratching a living? Not my idea of a future for my children.

So we rely on France for our security?Should we not be able to stand on our own two feet?Why should France have to protect the whole of Europe alone?Not only that but along with economic power,military power is one of the fundamental things which gives a country clout on the world stage.Unfortunately without Trident we don't have much of that anymore.Why would any other country listen to anything we had to say.We don't exactly have the biggest army or navy in the world.

[Toy Soldier]

Sorry but I dispute that.
Andrew Neill clearly pointed out in a daily politics programme on the issue that we could not independently push the button 'without' the agreement of the President of the USA.

I think the issue is that there are two types of "could", here... in terms of whether or not we could independently launch the nukes, I think in theory, we could. As in, they are not "locked" with the US holding a "key".

However, in every sense that matters, we could not (ever) launch a nuclear weapon without the backing of the USA. We would be completely ****ed. So it doesn't really matter if it is technically possible - as it is politically impossible.

On the other hand, it is pretty much impossible for ANYONE to start launching the things and have any outcome that doesn't closely resemble "completely ****ed" sooo... this is all moot, tbh.

[joeysteele]

"Well our so called nuclear deterrent is such that even if our PM wanted to press the button, they could not unless they had the agreement and permission of the USA."

This bit is just not true.We buy the Warheads from America and we get them maintained there.That's it.If it came down to it then our PM would make the decision on whether to use it.
Obviously if any NATO member wanted to use nukes however i would imagine there would have to be a vote or a unanimous agreement.

Actually Northern Monkey, I am giving you an unreserved apology.
I tried to find any transcripts of that programme with Andrew Neill's comment and have been unable to do so.
I thank you for enlightening me further to that as since I have checked even further I find it stated,that the USA does not now have a veto on our independent use of Trident it seems.

So I thank you again and concede that point to you fully.
My apologies again and respect to you too.

[Northern Monkey]

Sorry but I dispute that.
Andrew Neill clearly pointed out in a daily politics programme on the issue that we could not independently push the button 'without' the agreement of the President of the USA.

We could.The PM has the codes.It would not be wise to without US backing because once we'd shot our load so to speak Russia would obliterate us.In that respect we would need to Know the US were going to use theirs.Obviously we never would nuke a country first(hopefully).

Edit:Oops sorry.Ignore this post.I just read your other one:laugh:

[joeysteele]

I think the issue is that there are two types of "could", here... in terms of whether or not we could independently launch the nukes, I think in theory, we could. As in, they are not "locked" with the US holding a "key".

However, in every sense that matters, we could not (ever) launch a nuclear weapon without the backing of the USA. We would be completely ****ed. So it doesn't really matter if it is technically possible - as it is politically impossible.

On the other hand, it is pretty much impossible for ANYONE to start launching the things and have any outcome that doesn't closely resemble "completely ****ed" sooo... this is all moot, tbh.

Yes we can independently do so it appears TS, Northern Monkey is correct,I was wrong in still thinking that we could not now do so.

[Northern Monkey]

Actually Northern Monkey, I am giving you an unreserved apology.
I tried to find any transcripts of that programme with Andrew Neill's comment and have been unable to do so.
I thank you for enlightening me further to that as since I have checked even further I find it stated,that the USA does not now have a veto on our independent use of Trident it seems.

So I thank you again and concede that point to you fully.
My apologies again and respect to you too.

You are a gentleman.

[joeysteele]

We could.The PM has the codes.It would not be wise to without US backing because once we'd shot our load so to speak Russia would obliterate us.In that respect we would need to Know the US were going to use theirs.Obviously we never would nuke a country first(hopefully).

Edit:Oops sorry.Ignore this post.I just read your other one:laugh:


:joker: No worries, it is a very confusing issue anyway but you are correct.

[Kizzy]

So we rely on France for our security?Should we not be able to stand on our own two feet?Why should France have to protect the whole of Europe alone?Not only that but along with economic power,military power is one of the fundamental things which gives a country clout on the world stage.Unfortunately without Trident we don't have much of that anymore.Why would any other country listen to anything we had to say.We don't exactly have the biggest army or navy in the world.

We don't have much of anything, the rest of the world know this. We are not billy big kahoonas any more. It's not a case of relying on anyone, due to proximity any threat to us is a threat to them and visa versa.

[Northern Monkey]

We don't have much of anything, the rest of the world know this. We are not billy big kahoonas any more. It's not a case of relying on anyone, due to proximity any threat to us is a threat to them and visa versa.

For now.It is better imo to have security in an uncertain future.

[Kizzy]

For now.It is better imo to have security in an uncertain future.
See how it sounds totally fearful and paranoid, how do other countries go on without nuclear? They live, have families, grow old and die the same as everyone else.

[Northern Monkey]

To clarify.I would love to live in a world where nuclear weapons did'nt exist.Or were not needed.I do think though that they have played a part in us not having a third world war as of yet.The consequences are terrifying.Almost total destruction for life on Earth.Unfortunately we don't live in that world.Multilateral disarmament is the only sensible option imo.That is unlikely with North Korea in the mix though.I think it is an idealistic dream.Rushing into disarming ourselves alone could be a huge mistake i think.

[Northern Monkey]

See how it sounds totally fearful and paranoid, how do other countries go on without nuclear? They live, have families, grow old and die the same as everyone else.They live under the shelter of countries like The US,UK,France,Russia,China,Pakistan,India,Israel.A single country disarming their nukes removes part of that shelter.For it to work safely then all nuclear armed countries need to destroy all nuclear weapons.Imo.

[bots]

So say we address the strategic nukes and remove them. What about the tactical nukes? Do they get removed too? One may just be able to check that everyone has dismantled strategic nukes, but we could never trace the tactical variety ... not in 100 years of Sundays.

Nukes are with us. Like the wheel, once invented, its not possible to un-invent it. The threat will always be there.

[arista]

To clarify.I would love to live in a world where nuclear weapons did'nt exist.Or were not needed.I do think though that they have played a part in us not having a third world war as of yet.The consequences are terrifying.Almost total destruction for life on Earth.Unfortunately we don't live in that world.Multilateral disarmament is the only sensible option imo.That is unlikely with North Korea in the mix though.I think it is an idealistic dream.Rushing into disarming ourselves alone could be a huge mistake i think.


Bang On Right


And why JC can never be PM
unless he changed his brick wall type view

[kirklancaster]

Bang On Right


And why JC can never be PM
unless he changed his brick wall type view

That's not the only change which he needs to effect though Arista - in fact he needs so many changes that he would cease to be Jeremy Corbyn. :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

So say we address the strategic nukes and remove them. What about the tactical nukes? Do they get removed too? One may just be able to check that everyone has dismantled strategic nukes, but we could never trace the tactical variety ... not in 100 years of Sundays.

Nukes are with us. Like the wheel, once invented, its not possible to un-invent it. The threat will always be there.

Another great post.

[joeysteele]

Bang On Right


And why JC can never be PM
unless he changed his brick wall type view


That is a fair point arista,however I still say, this decision to press the button should not just fall with one person.
I myself would prefer a nuclear committee to decide if such action was needed,with all Parties represented at Westminster and of course the Cabinet and PM of the day part of that committee.

Maybe my original thought on that was too inclusive and too large but the fact it would need a majority to decide the action,for or against it, is what would carry the day.

I fear a trigger happy PM as much as I would a very hesitant one to press the button.
For me, this should not be a decision just for one person to make,the whole Parliament should really make it,not just the govt.
In that scenario, whether you had a PM who would or wouldn't would not then matter.
There are many other things a PM needs to do, whether they would make a poor,fair or good PM should not hinge on one decision they would never likely have to make hopefully.

I hope to see a change as to it only being a PMs decision,that is why a whole open National debate on Trident and our nuclear stance is, in my view, badly needed now for the future.