[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm sorry Kizzy but I respectfully disagree. I can see that you're criticising the 'people aren't being honest' argument and that's fine...but that's Toy Soldier's ballgame and not mine. From my experience and/or (more often) observation, there have been on occasions (not necessarily in this thread or in recent ones since people have started airing their concerns) in the last year or so, many instances of male voices having their opinions denigrated and validity called into question based on their sex. Often in a snide, indirect and baiting manner too. It's not helpful and is not conducive to a productive debate, or a debate at all for that matter.



No, I get that totally. Hence why on several occasions I've qualified my point by saying that my personal stake in this topic is obviously COMPLETELY different to that of a female's lived experience. But it's still a personal stake, just from a different angle - that's all my point was.



I'm not sure I understand this bit. I completely agree that feeling afraid to be honest about my genuine opinions is not conducive to civilised and reasoned debate! But I don't think I've suggested that the rest of the forum should? I think you're getting mine and TS' line of arguments mixed up here, I didn't make the point that people aren't being honest...he did. I was coming at it from a different angle.



I'm glad we agree on this however!

With respect I can't help but get your views tangled as you highlighted his views as relevant and they do seem to chime with your own on this, they aren't a million miles apart.
That's not to say I agree however, I can't think of one thread where a male opinion has been denigrated or deemed irrelevant. I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't work both ways even should you feel that, in all seriousness feminism isn't exactly the forte of some of the male regular members of this forum... That's not a snipe by the way that's an observation.

I'm not saying your angle is lesser ( I know you didn't say this, but I don't want my wording misconstrued) than mine as you say just different, my angle is different again from someone who has felt that fear, it's not specific to my gender to empathise with the abused. We have to appreciate that there has to be some rights afforded to them too. Which is why I felt the unisex option alongside the existing facilities had to be the most inclusive option.

You understood me well enough that's more or less what I was trying to say, aside from I meant the rest of the forum should remain civilised while speaking their minds. You remain civilised while not speaking your mind which is easy to do... some are being accused of speaking their mind whilst not being honest and still managing to come over as offensive. I appreciate that is not your view.