[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Chastising can be done without actually becoming psychical.

Like I said, I regret saying what I said because it's changed the whole tone of the discussion and made this awful kid into some kind of victim.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Like I said, I regret saying what I said because it's changed the whole tone of the discussion and made this awful kid into some kind of victim.

Most of the time on here it’s who is saying something not what they are saying.

Lt gets jumped on more times than a free bouncy castle.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Most of the time on here it’s who is saying something not what they are saying.

Lt gets jumped on more times than a free bouncy castle.

Are you accusing me of not having that opinion consistently? because I do....and I like Livia and LT so there goes that theory

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Are you accusing me of not having that opinion consistently? because I do....and I like Livia and LT so there goes that theory

I never mentioned your name Niamh so stop jumping to conclusions.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I never mentioned your name Niamh so stop jumping to conclusions.

It was a pretty easy conclusion to jump to considering I was the only one speaking to Livia on the opposite side, who were you talking about then because there literally was no one else involved?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It was a pretty easy conclusion to jump to considering I was the only one speaking to Livia on the opposite side, who were you talking about then because there literally was no one else involved?

It was in answer to Livia wishing she never said anything, as we all do on here at times, just not worth the bloody hassle, this being a prime example.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It was in answer to Livia wishing she never said anything, as we all do on here at times, just not worth the bloody hassle, this being a prime example.

So people aren't allowed to disagree in the Serious Debates section?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Are you accusing me of not having that opinion consistently? because I do....and I like Livia and LT so there goes that theory

Being friends and also being able to disagree is the grown up approach.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Being friends and also being able to disagree is the grown up approach.

Indeed, i like a good ol debate

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Most of the time on here it’s who is saying something not what they are saying.

Lt gets jumped on more times than a free bouncy castle.

amem sister

[Cherie]

or is he saying I am only 15 to travel for free

if there were more discipline and respect maybe the young mainly men who have ended up dead with a knife in their guts might still be alive, a small shove to put your in your place v a knife in the gut....you choose

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

or is he saying I am only 15 to travel for free

if there were more discipline and respect maybe the young mainly men who have ended up dead with a knife in their guts might still be alive, a small shove to put your in your place v a knife in the gut....you choose

So adults demonstrating that violence is a way to solve problems makes it LESS likely that kids / teens will use violence to solve their problems?

It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't, and it never will, no matter how much people want it to, there is simply zero evidence base behind the idea that corporal punishment teaches respect, and there is an ample evidence base behind the statistically verified fact that violence (whether its "well meaning" or apparently "justified" or not) begets violence. I get that people don't like that and want something else to be true, but it just isn't. People have been examining this issue for a very long time.

This kid being physically grabbed / pushed by this bus driver will have made him much more likely to grab / push other people in future. Especially if people are congratulating the driver and saying that he did the right thing. It's positive reinforcement of violence and its pretty much just that simple.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So adults demonstrating that violence is a way to solve problems makes it LESS likely that kids / teens will use violence to solve their problems?

It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't, and it never will, no matter how much people want it to, there is simply zero evidence base behind the idea that corporal punishment teaches respect, and there is an ample evidence base behind the statistically verified fact that violence (whether its "well meaning" or apparently "justified" or not) begets violence. I get that people don't like that and want something else to be true, but it just isn't. People have been examining this issue for a very long time.

This kid being physically grabbed / pushed by this bus driver will have made him much more likely to grab / push other people in future. Especially if people are congratulating the driver and saying that he did the right thing. It's positive reinforcement of violence and its pretty much just that simple.

so why is violence at school at record levels?

"Nearly half of school support staff across England experience violence at work, with tens of thousands subject to attacks in the classroom on a weekly basis, new figures show"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8527906.html

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so why is violence at school at record levels?

"Nearly half of school support staff across England experience violence at work, with tens of thousands subject to attacks in the classroom on a weekly basis, new figures show"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8527906.html

A vast array of complex social and economic changes, the rise of social media (though I will freely admit this is mainly just my opinion), the breakdown of communities and extended families promoted by neoliberal capitalism and consumerism... to name a few suggestions.

Why on earth would you simply assume that it's "because they don't get hit enough"? It makes no sense at all especially given that - in general - kids who come from solid, respectful homes who do NOT physically punish or harm each other, are the LEAST likely to be attacking or harming other pupils or staff in schools.

Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. That's the absolute basics, LT. You can't say "Kids used to get hit more. Staff used to get assaulted less. Therefore, hitting kids will reduce assaults on staff." It's (literally, demonstrably) not logical.

Here's another fact for you; Bee populations have been declining over the last few decades. And school assaults have been increasing . We must consider the bees!! School assaults are increasing because of the lack of bees! Look at the numbers. Less bees since 1995. More assaults since 1995. Undeniable facts.

It's just the same BS logic as the assault on television / gaming. "Kids watch more telly and play more games than 10 years ago and X/Y/Z is a bigger problem than 10 years ago. Therefore, TV / gaming is responsible for X/Y/Z.

Unproven, undemonstrated, unscientific supposition and nonsense opinion.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So adults demonstrating that violence is a way to solve problems makes it LESS likely that kids / teens will use violence to solve their problems?

It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't, and it never will, no matter how much people want it to, there is simply zero evidence base behind the idea that corporal punishment teaches respect, and there is an ample evidence base behind the statistically verified fact that violence (whether its "well meaning" or apparently "justified" or not) begets violence. I get that people don't like that and want something else to be true, but it just isn't. People have been examining this issue for a very long time.

This kid being physically grabbed / pushed by this bus driver will have made him much more likely to grab / push other people in future. Especially if people are congratulating the driver and saying that he did the right thing. It's positive reinforcement of violence and its pretty much just that simple.

A push is hardly demonstrating violence, if someone tried to enter your home illegally or in a threatening way you would be quite within your rights to push them out, the bus driver is responsible for the bus and his passengers, if he felt this passenger was going to be a threat or cause trouble he had every right to push him off, we don't know the full story here so its difficult to judge why the bus driver reacted but I doubt it was just for being called a prick

If this happened at a hospital reception desk no one would bat an eyelid at the youth being man handled out by security, the guy is on his own, its not like he set about him with a baseball bat, he pushed him off the bus, the only way he let himself down was calling the kid fat, maybe he has done the kid a favour and he will act reasonably in future

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

A push is hardly demonstrating violence, if someone tried to enter your home illegally or in a threatening way you would be quite within your rights to push them out, the bus driver is responsible for the bus and his passengers, if he felt this passenger was going to be a threat or cause trouble he had every right to push him off, we don't know the full story here so its difficult to judge why the bus driver reacted but I doubt it was just for being called a prick

If this happened at a hospital reception desk no one would bat an eyelid at the youth being man handled out by security, the guy is on his own, its not like he set about him with a baseball bat, he pushed him off the bus, the only way he let himself down was calling the kid fat, maybe he has done the kid a favour and he will act reasonably in future

You are incorrect Cherie, sorry, a bus (like a shop) is not private property. If I physically grabbed or pushed a customer for calling me a name I would be at the very least suspended - would be at risk of being fired - and could be charged with assault. The same applies here.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

A push is hardly demonstrating violence, if someone tried to enter your home illegally or in a threatening way you would be quite within your rights to push them out, the bus driver is responsible for the bus and his passengers, if he felt this passenger was going to be a threat or cause trouble he had every right to push him off, we don't know the full story here so its difficult to judge why the bus driver reacted but I doubt it was just for being called a prick

If this happened at a hospital reception desk no one would bat an eyelid at the youth being man handled out by security, the guy is on his own, its not like he set about him with a baseball bat, he pushed him off the bus, the only way he let himself down was calling the kid fat, maybe he has done the kid a favour and he will act reasonably in future

That's just wrong tbh. Can't compare a private home to a place of business. The driver is in a public facing role, if a situation arises when the driver is receiving abuse then they have to stick to the regulations in how to handle that.

Being called a prick doesn't warrant him insulting them back and putting hands on them, two wrongs do not make a right.

I definitely would do more than bat an eyelid if I saw a disproportionate response like that in a hospital or any other place.

Bit worrying that you think a violent and abusive response is a good way of course correcting someone's behaviour tbh...

If this wasn't a teenage boy, a lot of people who were on the driver's side would not have supported his behaviour.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Cherie

A push is hardly demonstrating violence, if someone tried to enter your home illegally or in a threatening way you would be quite within your rights to push them out, the bus driver is responsible for the bus and his passengers, if he felt this passenger was going to be a threat or cause trouble he had every right to push him off, we don't know the full story here so its difficult to judge why the bus driver reacted but I doubt it was just for being called a prick

If this happened at a hospital reception desk no one would bat an eyelid at the youth being man handled out by security, the guy is on his own, its not like he set about him with a baseball bat, he pushed him off the bus, the only way he let himself down was calling the kid fat, maybe he has done the kid a favour and he will act reasonably in future

That is an interesting take and I wouldn't say it's invalid. It just depends on what society agrees should be the boundaries. Some welfare/social security offices here will kick you out, and yes they will touch to remove you from the premises if you decide to get a little bit too pissy. That may seem OTT to some not accustomed to this, but here, many of these places are really overcrowded and there are all sorts of characters that come into these places. Employees have been touched. I've only been in a few times, but the employees have short-tempers... and to some degree, when you see how many will show up and threaten, lose their sh** over something taking too long or their claim not being expedited, they sort of do have to take matters into own hands sometimes. Literally. They see a lot of resistance.

With city services like metro/transportation, I think the lines are more blurred than that. I would not have a problem with a bus driver removing someone physically from a bus who is being disruptive permitted it's not hitting them in the face and with any force to parts of their body. Just simply a removal from the vehicle. However, it depends on what society, and mainly the passengers helps them feel safe in that environment. So it's not always easy to determine how/where those boundaries should be. Personally, I feel safer when a bus driver does have more tools at their disposal because there are drug runs, gang-related activities, etc that are carried out through public transit. But, we have a police division just for Metro Transit, so probably they have some dispatch potential.