[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Talking of vicious mental abuse there's no verdict yet, and here you are judge juror and executioner.
It's like the #be kind movement folowing Caroline Flack's suicide never happened....

obviously these two had a very volatile relationship, in this disgusting media circus there are no innocents both have been exposed. Neither are shrinking violets, Winona Ryder and Kate Moss weren't either.. if you attract chaotic people and have turbulent love affairs then the lines of who did what to whom and why are going to get blurred.
Blaming one party in the relationship is not right or fair the both had very glaring faults.

You don't need to be a shrinking violet to be an abuse victim. I know you're not outright saying you have to be but statements like that really don't help.

The lines are blurred because they're three-dimensional human beings with complex personalities and relationship histories and not the cardboard cutout good and bad guy. It's not really a reason to say neither can be or are victims of abuse. It just doesn't work that way.

When calling out abuse, it isn't excusing the other person's faults. It's calling out abuse.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm biased because I don't subscribe to your view of Heard.
I've never suggested Depp can't be a victim at all. As far as I see it so far they are both abusers and victims in a toxic relationship.

Hollywood is not known as a place where people are treated fairly as a rule is it? Gagging orders, black listing, settlements, the backlash from fans...who in their right mind would take on an A lister unless they had to?

I still say there are faults on both sides, you would also have to disregard some statements to refute that.

She's clearly not a woman in her right mind, and regardless of what anyone thinks of either of them she has told countless lies and painted herself as the victim she never was, so she "took on" the Hollywood A-lister when she didn't need to. If she was a victim of his abuse she wouldn't have needed to lie and invent stories or make threats that no one would believe him if her claims were genuine.