[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Pathetic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Its not pathetic but it is sad to see

Id imagine she entered the house thinking it would be a fun experience but it has turned out to be a nightmare for her

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I think the problem is exactly that Ali does just say what she says and walks away, rather than allowing the other person to express their thoughts and feelings fully. This doesn’t, however, allow any room for discussion or reconciliation, and doesn’t allow the other person to feel heard.

If two people genuinely don’t like each other, it is better to accept that and walk away. In this case, Ali does give the impression that she really doesn’t like Khaled, whereas he seems to be perceiving the situation as a difference of opinion that he hopes to resolve. I don’t think he is coming from a place of dislike.

I don't think he is either, but he needs to have the emotional intelligence to stop badgering and move on. You can't make someone like you who doesn't. There doesn't even have to be a reason, some humans just don't like other humans based on vibes. It's human behaviour

[GoldHeart]

Wey I think Khaled knows now to stay well clear of psychopath. Emma was even advising him to leave it.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Wey I think Khaled knows now to stay well clear of psychopath. Emma was even advising him to leave it.

Thanks for your educated diagnosis.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Well if you need to resort to swearing you have lost the argument before it even begins.

See, that's the kind of bullshit self superior nonsense 'logic' people like Ali rely on to 'win'.

Swearing in no way invalidates an argument or valid point.

And deliberately trying to provoke someone into anger as an automatic 'win' button is a really toxic and weak personality trait.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

I feel something was left out of the edit there. On the live feed, most of the house supported Khaled over Ali over the dispute. Why was that? Why did he approach her that evening rather than wait until the next morning? From the edit, the only thing is he was wound up slightly by the group conversation but even that doesn't quite add up. There appears to be a lack context.

It is a two way street. Khaled's timing and phrasing was off, but so was Ali's reaction.

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

Though it could be argued that, as Khaled knew how difficult it was to be confronted straight after making the HoH nomination, he'd give some time to Ali for doing the same thing. He even said he would so I'm not sure why he didn't follow that through.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I don't think he is either, but he needs to have the emotional intelligence to stop badgering and move on. You can't make someone like you who doesn't. There doesn't even have to be a reason, some humans just don't like other humans based on vibes. It's human behaviour

All perceptions are different, I know, but I don’t see his need to discuss something as badgering, unless he does it numerous times. Personally, also see him as someone with pretty decent emotional intelligence.

I don’t feel that he is trying to make Ali like him. In fact, I believe he recognises that she doesn’t, and accepts that’s her prerogative. In the real world, it is easy to accept that and walk away. However, they are in a very closed environment with a relatively small number of people, and they cannot either avoid each other or escape. I think his intentions are to develop a sense of understanding and resolution between them so that they can live more calmly and peacefully within the BB house without awkwardness, discomfort or conflict. That would surely be better for them both, and for other housemates.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

Exactly.

She demands empathy, understanding and respect of others but gives zero in return.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

Though it could be argued that, as Khaled knew how difficult it was to be confronted straight after making the HoH nomination, he'd give some time to Ali for doing the same thing. He even said he would so I'm not sure why he didn't follow that through.

That’s a fair point, as he did say he would address it the following day. However, he didn’t do it immediately after nominations as they were both involved in other conversations after leaving the sofas. Perhaps, after having both had some time to settle somewhat, he changed his mind about the timing.

I am trying to see things from both sides with these two, as I have time for them both, and I think it can be all too easy to fall into the trap of seeing one or other as the villain no matter what. I have defended Ali in the past, but in this particular instance, I feel Khaled didn’t deserve how he was treated.

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by Garfie

That’s a fair point, as he did say he would address it the following day. However, he didn’t do it immediately after nominations as they were both involved in other conversations after leaving the sofas. Perhaps, after having both had some time to settle somewhat, he changed his mind about the timing.

I am trying to see things from both sides with these two, as I have time for them both, and I think it can be all too easy to fall into the trap of seeing one or other as the villain no matter what. I have defended Ali in the past, but in this particular instance, I feel Khaled didn’t deserve how he was treated.

No, I agree - I think being accused of point scoring took Khaled aback as he didn't see his comment in that way. But at the same time, it was not really the moment to refer back to the previous week. It could be he got lost in semantics but, if he had said "That wasn't easy, was it?", it such a small change but, by not referring to himself Ali may not have seen it as a dig.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Exactly.

She demands empathy, understanding and respect of others but gives zero in return.

I agree very much with the sentiment that empathy, understanding and respect works both ways. I understand why Ali might find this more challenging than most and respect that, but she is of high intelligence and her achievements and career would suggest she has a good capacity to learn. In fact, I would imagine those qualities are important in being a successful psychologist.

In the same way I have tried to understand Ali, I am trying to treat Khaled with equal understanding and respect. I don’t believe that demonstrating kindness, courtesy and compassion towards each other suggests someone is fake, devious or deceitful, even if they might appear to be trying too hard. If those were the worst crimes committed by the human race, I think the world would be a much happier place to live in.

I also wonder how many of those who judge Khaled so harshly have stopped to think about alternative explanations for his behaviour?

His early life experiences were in a country involved in conflict and he described growing up hearing bombings around him. As a young child, he must have been ultra-conscious of the dangers around him, alert to any sign of danger and fearful of how conflict could so easily escalate to a point of death and destruction. Therefore, it wouldn’t be unreasonable or irrational if he now feels the need to live with a sense of calm, stability and peace around him or why he has the urge to avoid confrontation and resolve conflict with others.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

No, I agree - I think being accused of point scoring took Khaled aback as he didn't see his comment in that way. But at the same time, it was not really the moment to refer back to the previous week. It could be he got lost in semantics but, if he had said "That wasn't easy, was it?", it such a small change but, by not referring to himself Ali may not have seen it as a dig.

I understand where you’re coming from but, in the same way, Ali could just have said that she didn’t see it that way at the time, but now she could relate to how difficult it was. That might have made the difference in terms of resolution.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

Wonderful post

[jet]

Originally Posted by Garfie

All perceptions are different, I know, but I don’t see his need to discuss something as badgering, unless he does it numerous times. Personally, also see him as someone with pretty decent emotional intelligence.

I don’t feel that he is trying to make Ali like him. In fact, I believe he recognises that she doesn’t, and accepts that’s her prerogative. In the real world, it is easy to accept that and walk away. However, they are in a very closed environment with a relatively small number of people, and they cannot either avoid each other or escape. I think his intentions are to develop a sense of understanding and resolution between them so that they can live more calmly and peacefully within the BB house without awkwardness, discomfort or conflict. That would surely be better for them both, and for other housemates.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by jet

Wonderful post

Cheers, jet.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by vesavius

See, that's the kind of bullshit self superior nonsense 'logic' people like Ali rely on to 'win'.

Swearing in no way invalidates an argument or valid point.

And deliberately trying to provoke someone into anger as an automatic 'win' button is a really toxic and weak personality trait.

It does show lack of intelligence and decorum though imo

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

Originally Posted by Garfie

All perceptions are different, I know, but I don’t see his need to discuss something as badgering, unless he does it numerous times. Personally, also see him as someone with pretty decent emotional intelligence.

I don’t feel that he is trying to make Ali like him. In fact, I believe he recognises that she doesn’t, and accepts that’s her prerogative. In the real world, it is easy to accept that and walk away. However, they are in a very closed environment with a relatively small number of people, and they cannot either avoid each other or escape. I think his intentions are to develop a sense of understanding and resolution between them so that they can live more calmly and peacefully within the BB house without awkwardness, discomfort or conflict. That would surely be better for them both, and for other housemates.

Originally Posted by Garfie

I agree very much with the sentiment that empathy, understanding and respect works both ways. I understand why Ali might find this more challenging than most and respect that, but she is of high intelligence and her achievements and career would suggest she has a good capacity to learn. In fact, I would imagine those qualities are important in being a successful psychologist.

In the same way I have tried to understand Ali, I am trying to treat Khaled with equal understanding and respect. I don’t believe that demonstrating kindness, courtesy and compassion towards each other suggests someone is fake, devious or deceitful, even if they might appear to be trying too hard. If those were the worst crimes committed by the human race, I think the world would be a much happier place to live in.

I also wonder how many of those who judge Khaled so harshly have stopped to think about alternative explanations for his behaviour?

His early life experiences were in a country involved in conflict and he described growing up hearing bombings around him. As a young child, he must have been ultra-conscious of the dangers around him, alert to any sign of danger and fearful of how conflict could so easily escalate to a point of death and destruction. Therefore, it wouldn’t be unreasonable or irrational if he now feels the need to live with a sense of calm, stability and peace around him or why he has the urge to avoid confrontation and resolve conflict with others.

You raise very good and thought out opinions.

I can't disagree. What I do disagree with is the astounding hatred for someone,, to the point you would have thought she had committed murder. I think that is probably why I back her corner too

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

It does show lack of intelligence and decorum though imo

Intelligence? Quite the opposite.

Decorum? Subjective.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a7916516.html

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

You raise very good and thought out opinions.

I can't disagree. What I do disagree with is the astounding hatred for someone,, to the point you would have thought she had committed murder. I think that is probably why I back her corner too

And so do you, by the way.
I’m totally on the same page as you regarding the extremes of hatred aimed at housemates, whether it be Ali or Khaled or anyone else. I just wish people would look beneath the surface, and remember the complexities of human nature, rather than judging housemates as if they were one-dimensional cartoon characters.

[arista]

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by arista

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by arista

Wow, it's almost like the position is super stressful and emotionally hard. It's a shame that she didn't use it as a learning moment to understand how Khaled felt and the impact of her behaviour on him.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Garfie

And so do you, by the way.
I’m totally on the same page as you regarding the extremes of hatred aimed at housemates, whether it be Ali or Khaled or anyone else. I just wish people would look beneath the surface, and remember the complexities of human nature, rather than judging housemates as if they were one-dimensional cartoon characters.

Spot on

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I also wonder how many of those who judge Khaled so harshly have stopped to think about alternative explanations for his behaviour?

His early life experiences were in a country involved in conflict and he described growing up hearing bombings around him. As a young child, he must have been ultra-conscious of the dangers around him, alert to any sign of danger and fearful of how conflict could so easily escalate to a point of death and destruction. Therefore, it wouldn’t be unreasonable or irrational if he now feels the need to live with a sense of calm, stability and peace around him or why he has the urge to avoid confrontation and resolve conflict with others.

He's explained that he's had to move frequently after migrating and thus adapting/reintroducing himself to people over and over. So he's constantly facing reintegration. He said he finds that incredibly tiresome. So placing pins on his map early on of new people he's met in his life makes sense for doing basic navigation and I can see why that's a skill he's had to pick up for himself...

I think him and Ali are actually more similar than they realize and that results in a few problems for them...

Khaled has a strong sense of self and takes immense pride in his ability and capability of navigating complex social situations "properly". Ali is very much the same in that she's also constantly looking out for what other people's expectations of her will be and measuring herself up to those marks.

A serious negative... they both treat people and situations as challenges (ie puzzles) to solve. This can make for relationships with them maybe feeling too mechanical.

I can see the group growing really tired of it all with their constant nagging of themselves and others about what is going on in the heads of other HMs because of their gameplay style as Completionists in social situations. Because it's BB, this looks like it is influenced more by the game side, but I suspect this is actually just normal day-to-day for them

This house is different than past houses in some respects as there's big characters who hyper-fixate on the analysis of other people over and over with each new nugget of info. Add in the text group chat feels with the boys, the dressing room nature of the girl gossip (including Nathan & Dean) and it's like a social media version of Clue... "Who killed the bagel?"... etc

Both are bound to be nominated (again) soon. If I were in the same situation, I'd be really annoyed that they keep placing their own need to dig into other people's heads above others as it's probably overbearing for those who are just starting to figure out where they sit. I'm a viewer who loves a good analysis of house politics, but even I think it is getting tedious. Even for BB standards. One of them needs to pick up a grey rock for a friend and just learn to observe for a while without overanalyzing every single social cue... there's a point where it's just not that deep for me

[GlitterUK]

I think they have both taken up so much of the show it would be interesting to see what happens when they both do leave because I think their fans will cancel out each other.