[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

What is wrong with not wanting to resolve something?

He's so willing to give olive branches he brings something up that was put to bed even though he was advised to wait until the next day

I feel something was left out of the edit there. On the live feed, most of the house supported Khaled over Ali over the dispute. Why was that? Why did he approach her that evening rather than wait until the next morning? From the edit, the only thing is he was wound up slightly by the group conversation but even that doesn't quite add up. There appears to be a lack context.

It is a two way street. Khaled's timing and phrasing was off, but so was Ali's reaction.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

I feel something was left out of the edit there. On the live feed, most of the house supported Khaled over Ali over the dispute. Why was that? Why did he approach her that evening rather than wait until the next morning? From the edit, the only thing is he was wound up slightly by the group conversation but even that doesn't quite add up. There appears to be a lack context.

It is a two way street. Khaled's timing and phrasing was off, but so was Ali's reaction.

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

Though it could be argued that, as Khaled knew how difficult it was to be confronted straight after making the HoH nomination, he'd give some time to Ali for doing the same thing. He even said he would so I'm not sure why he didn't follow that through.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

Though it could be argued that, as Khaled knew how difficult it was to be confronted straight after making the HoH nomination, he'd give some time to Ali for doing the same thing. He even said he would so I'm not sure why he didn't follow that through.

That’s a fair point, as he did say he would address it the following day. However, he didn’t do it immediately after nominations as they were both involved in other conversations after leaving the sofas. Perhaps, after having both had some time to settle somewhat, he changed his mind about the timing.

I am trying to see things from both sides with these two, as I have time for them both, and I think it can be all too easy to fall into the trap of seeing one or other as the villain no matter what. I have defended Ali in the past, but in this particular instance, I feel Khaled didn’t deserve how he was treated.

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by Garfie

That’s a fair point, as he did say he would address it the following day. However, he didn’t do it immediately after nominations as they were both involved in other conversations after leaving the sofas. Perhaps, after having both had some time to settle somewhat, he changed his mind about the timing.

I am trying to see things from both sides with these two, as I have time for them both, and I think it can be all too easy to fall into the trap of seeing one or other as the villain no matter what. I have defended Ali in the past, but in this particular instance, I feel Khaled didn’t deserve how he was treated.

No, I agree - I think being accused of point scoring took Khaled aback as he didn't see his comment in that way. But at the same time, it was not really the moment to refer back to the previous week. It could be he got lost in semantics but, if he had said "That wasn't easy, was it?", it such a small change but, by not referring to himself Ali may not have seen it as a dig.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

No, I agree - I think being accused of point scoring took Khaled aback as he didn't see his comment in that way. But at the same time, it was not really the moment to refer back to the previous week. It could be he got lost in semantics but, if he had said "That wasn't easy, was it?", it such a small change but, by not referring to himself Ali may not have seen it as a dig.

I understand where you’re coming from but, in the same way, Ali could just have said that she didn’t see it that way at the time, but now she could relate to how difficult it was. That might have made the difference in terms of resolution.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

Exactly.

She demands empathy, understanding and respect of others but gives zero in return.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Exactly.

She demands empathy, understanding and respect of others but gives zero in return.

I agree very much with the sentiment that empathy, understanding and respect works both ways. I understand why Ali might find this more challenging than most and respect that, but she is of high intelligence and her achievements and career would suggest she has a good capacity to learn. In fact, I would imagine those qualities are important in being a successful psychologist.

In the same way I have tried to understand Ali, I am trying to treat Khaled with equal understanding and respect. I don’t believe that demonstrating kindness, courtesy and compassion towards each other suggests someone is fake, devious or deceitful, even if they might appear to be trying too hard. If those were the worst crimes committed by the human race, I think the world would be a much happier place to live in.

I also wonder how many of those who judge Khaled so harshly have stopped to think about alternative explanations for his behaviour?

His early life experiences were in a country involved in conflict and he described growing up hearing bombings around him. As a young child, he must have been ultra-conscious of the dangers around him, alert to any sign of danger and fearful of how conflict could so easily escalate to a point of death and destruction. Therefore, it wouldn’t be unreasonable or irrational if he now feels the need to live with a sense of calm, stability and peace around him or why he has the urge to avoid confrontation and resolve conflict with others.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I also wonder how many of those who judge Khaled so harshly have stopped to think about alternative explanations for his behaviour?

His early life experiences were in a country involved in conflict and he described growing up hearing bombings around him. As a young child, he must have been ultra-conscious of the dangers around him, alert to any sign of danger and fearful of how conflict could so easily escalate to a point of death and destruction. Therefore, it wouldn’t be unreasonable or irrational if he now feels the need to live with a sense of calm, stability and peace around him or why he has the urge to avoid confrontation and resolve conflict with others.

He's explained that he's had to move frequently after migrating and thus adapting/reintroducing himself to people over and over. So he's constantly facing reintegration. He said he finds that incredibly tiresome. So placing pins on his map early on of new people he's met in his life makes sense for doing basic navigation and I can see why that's a skill he's had to pick up for himself...

I think him and Ali are actually more similar than they realize and that results in a few problems for them...

Khaled has a strong sense of self and takes immense pride in his ability and capability of navigating complex social situations "properly". Ali is very much the same in that she's also constantly looking out for what other people's expectations of her will be and measuring herself up to those marks.

A serious negative... they both treat people and situations as challenges (ie puzzles) to solve. This can make for relationships with them maybe feeling too mechanical.

I can see the group growing really tired of it all with their constant nagging of themselves and others about what is going on in the heads of other HMs because of their gameplay style as Completionists in social situations. Because it's BB, this looks like it is influenced more by the game side, but I suspect this is actually just normal day-to-day for them

This house is different than past houses in some respects as there's big characters who hyper-fixate on the analysis of other people over and over with each new nugget of info. Add in the text group chat feels with the boys, the dressing room nature of the girl gossip (including Nathan & Dean) and it's like a social media version of Clue... "Who killed the bagel?"... etc

Both are bound to be nominated (again) soon. If I were in the same situation, I'd be really annoyed that they keep placing their own need to dig into other people's heads above others as it's probably overbearing for those who are just starting to figure out where they sit. I'm a viewer who loves a good analysis of house politics, but even I think it is getting tedious. Even for BB standards. One of them needs to pick up a grey rock for a friend and just learn to observe for a while without overanalyzing every single social cue... there's a point where it's just not that deep for me

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by Maru

He's explained that he's had to move frequently after migrating and thus adapting/reintroducing himself to people over and over. So he's constantly facing reintegration. He said he finds that incredibly tiresome. So placing pins on his map early on of new people he's met in his life makes sense for doing basic navigation and I can see why that's a skill he's had to pick up for himself...

I think him and Ali are actually more similar than they realize and that results in a few problems for them...

Khaled has a strong sense of self and takes immense pride in his ability and capability of navigating complex social situations "properly". Ali is very much the same in that she's also constantly looking out for what other people's expectations of her will be and measuring herself up to those marks.

A serious negative... they both treat people and situations as challenges (ie puzzles) to solve. This can make for relationships with them maybe feeling too mechanical.

I can see the group growing really tired of it all with their constant nagging of themselves and others about what is going on in the heads of other HMs because of their gameplay style as Completionists in social situations. Because it's BB, this looks like it is influenced more by the game side, but I suspect this is actually just normal day-to-day for them

This house is different than past houses in some respects as there's big characters who hyper-fixate on the analysis of other people over and over with each new nugget of info. Add in the text group chat feels with the boys, the dressing room nature of the girl gossip (including Nathan & Dean) and it's like a social media version of Clue... "Who killed the bagel?"... etc

Both are bound to be nominated (again) soon. If I were in the same situation, I'd be really annoyed that they keep placing their own need to dig into other people's heads above others as it's probably overbearing for those who are just starting to figure out where they sit. I'm a viewer who loves a good analysis of house politics, but even I think it is getting tedious. Even for BB standards. One of them needs to pick up a grey rock for a friend and just learn to observe for a while without overanalyzing every single social cue... there's a point where it's just not that deep for me

I can understand where you're coming from but Khaled's relationships with Hanah, Marcello and Segun do not strike me as mechanical. And I'd say the same for Ali towards Lily and perhaps Martha.

The annoying thing is it feels like Ali and Khaled had sorted out their issues, but one comment being taken the wrong way has blown everything up, aided by Dean's influence on the pairings.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

I can understand where you're coming from but Khaled's relationships with Hanah, Marcello and Segun do not strike me as mechanical. And I'd say the same for Ali towards Lily and perhaps Martha.

The annoying thing is it feels like Ali and Khaled had sorted out their issues, but one comment being taken the wrong way has blown everything up, aided by Dean's influence on the pairings.

Sure but that's only looking at those relationships that are being driven by the house atm. How close are they really? We don't know yet, Remember when some were suggesting Khaled was being "fake" (he likely wasn't) and everything felt forced. I think this was part of why. Khaled was helped by Ali's behavior in the longrun because it gave everyone an incentive to check through his exterior behavior for themselves and see if there was anything to that.

I wonder if Lily is going to have a rethink. I don't think she is completely happy with staying in a sidekick, "friend friend" role. Their relationship still seems shallow atm. Khaled I think risks pushing more people to nominate him if he doesn't relax, but it's a much smaller risk because he has multiple people around him to keep him in check. In retrospect, I can see where Izaaz may not have wanted to get too involved with that side of things regarding him, at least at first... after all they're still forced to live together. Martha is harder to examine but I think I agree with Nathan a bit that she is being a bit fake, but it could be fake it til you make it for all we know?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t feel his timing needs to be questioned. Ali didn’t waste any time in launching into him directly after he made his killer nomination last week, and didn’t show any consideration for the fact that the timing might be wrong for him. How can the same thing be fair for one and not the other?

I have an understanding of Ali, and empathy for her Autistic tendencies. However, alongside that goes the reality that all humans are flawed, all people can get things wrong and those on the Spectrum are not immune to that. And, just like any other person in this world, they shouldn’t be defended to the hilt when they do make mistakes, but encouraged instead to recognise errors in judgement and behaviour, so that they are given the opportunity to reassess and change if necessary.

Excusing or defending all they do, no matter what the impact, does them a disservice and is basically just enabling - it doesn’t show credit or respect for the intelligence and ability they have to reconsider, adjust, adapt or learn where necessary.

Wonderful post

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by jet

Wonderful post

Cheers, jet.