[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Novo

She didn't wear a poppy last night, the viewers will pick up on this and turn against her.. Meanwhile Katie will get loads of votes for wearing one

she's Irish, why would she wear a poppy

[fruit_cake]

yeah the poppy mafia are gonna be after her!!!!

[Novo]

All the old people will be voting Katie

" Oh look she has a Poppy on what a great respectful young girl!! Arthur vote 12 times! "

" Alright Dot pass me the phone "

That is what will be happening all over the UK

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

Liam's really good I agree

Yeah, and although I thought Paige was good last night, I think Liam deserved to be in Danii's final 4 over him.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

She brings in most of the headlines...oh I don't bloody know but it's annoying. She's too arrogant for my taste. Her speaking voice is annoying too. I don't see her lasting past one single after this is done. There are better looking girls out there that can actually sing and rap. Now that companies know people are craving for this kind of act maybe they will make an effort to sign a similar act worth our dosh and Cher will disappear into obscurity.

[joeysteele]

Liam is the strongest by far of One Direction, Zain is the weakest, he always seems to be looking for guidance as to what to do next, I also think it a mistake that Liam wasn't put through to the Boys category because he alone in One Direction is the organiser and improving one of the group.

As to Cher, I don't think she will be in danger this week,I would like her to be but I think Katie has the problem again and if Katie is in the last 2, it should be recalled the times she has been there in only 5 weeks.

[Z]

I don't get it either. She deserved praise last week; Simon went too far with it. She deserved criticism in weeks 2, 3 and 5 - but the worst she got was week 5: Simon saying it wasn't as good as last week. They're definitely refraining from criticising her properly and I don't understand why - generally speaking if the judges criticise a favourite, their fans go mental and vote for them even more to make sure they aren't in the bottom two. So clearly the votes aren't the issue, I think they just want to make her seem unstoppable.

Mary, in my opinion, unravelled a bit last week, and then last night completely lost all the credibility she'd built up for herself. She's no longer the 50 year old woman with the impressive voice who can sing anything - she's been shown as a one trick pony who has flopped about miserably both times she's been tasked with a song outside of her comfort zone. Maybe that was an intentional move from the judges to gear Cher up to the invincible position? They're doing a lot of undermining of other, better acts in favour of Cher!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I wonder why? Erm...maybe because that's their opinion?

I don't buy into this either. Simon did criticise her, not regarding her vocal, but that the performance wasn't as good as last week. If he 'loved her' that much he wouldn't criticise her at all...

Its not really someones opinion if someone is out of tune or not though, they either are or they arent

It is someones choice, whether they will admit that someone was out of tune though




Back to the OP...I have no idea, but it is stupid. Then again, Mary last night got no negative comments and she was atrocious, so maybe it is something to do with the more fragile acts getting special treatment. There has to be something as cher has been praised to high heavens every week, when the only week she deserved so much praise was last week. But even then, throwing the 'best performance of the series' label at her was a total joke

IF they are bigging her up because they are afraid of upsetting her fragile self...its the worst thing they can do, because she believes all her own hype, and if she doesnt win, it will be disastrous after being practically told that she will since the start.

To be honest, I dont even see why she is on the live shows. After failing at bootcamp and judges houses, even REFUSING to sing again after ****ing up at the judges houses, just walking off...why on earth was she still put through? Surely that showed what she would be like...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

Matt, Aiden and Rebecca in the final sounds pretty good to me!!! would be the best ever final

Perfect final

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

she was out of tune Jack

It was an exact copy of the original too,which I think Simon picked up on,so it wasn't 'good' imo.

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Novo

All the old people will be voting Katie

" Oh look she has a Poppy on what a great respectful young girl!! Arthur vote 12 times! "

" Alright Dot pass me the phone "

That is what will be happening all over the UK

ever hear the term clutching at straws novo
what has ******ing poppies to do with rock n roll ...haha or the x factor for that matter

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its not really someones opinion if someone is out of tune or not though, they either are or they arent

It is someones choice, whether they will admit that someone was out of tune though

Not really, because you could easily spin that around and say 'it's someones choice whether or not they will admit that someone was in tune, even though they dislike the act'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Not really, because you could easily spin that around and say 'it's someones choice whether or not they will admit that someone was in tune, even though they dislike the act'.

Yes you could. Never said it didnt go the other way too

However it is ridiculous to say that it is someones opinion if an act was in tune. As it is not opinion at all.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes you could. Never said it didnt go the other way too

However it is ridiculous to say that it is someones opinion if an act was in tune. As it is not opinion at all.

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

[patsylimerick]

I think the difficulty is that, even though all of Cher's fans may realise she was completely out of tune last night; they won't acknowledge it. Understandable, I suppose. But she was still out of tune.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

Stating if someone is in tune or not is an observation; bias playing into it is another issue entirely - but I think the vast majority of users who post in the X Factor forum can be sensible enough to pass judgment on whether a performance was in tune or not without being biased.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Zee

Stating if someone is in tune or not is an observation; bias playing into it is another issue entirely - but I think the vast majority of users who post in the X Factor forum can be sensible enough to pass judgment on whether a performance was in tune or not without being biased.

I agree. And I'm not biased, I genuinely believe she was in tune [she went off-key for a small part, can't remember where, but for the large majority of the song she was in tune]. I'm definitely not biased, as in some weeks I end up rating my favourites lower than other acts in the 'Ratings' thread. But I genuinely believe she was in tune. So either other people are just saying she was out of tune because they dislike her, or it's an opinion?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

That is called bias. Based on who you like.

Being in tune is not an opinion, its a fact.


That being said, she was not out of tune for the entire performance, only in parts.

[Vicky.]

See the thing is, she could sing a whole song, horrifically out of tune...and the fans would still say she wasnt out of tune.

She could sing a whole song perfect, and some people who dont like her would say she was out of tune.

But the fact of her actually being in tune or not, is not opinion...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

she's Irish, why would she wear a poppy

Out of respect for all the Irish men who fought with the Allies in WW2, even though they didn't have to?

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I agree. And I'm not biased, I genuinely believe she was in tune [she went off-key for a small part, can't remember where, but for the large majority of the song she was in tune]. I'm definitely not biased, as in some weeks I end up rating my favourites lower than other acts in the 'Ratings' thread. But I genuinely believe she was in tune. So either other people are just saying she was out of tune because they dislike her, or it's an opinion?

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

That is called bias. Based on who you like.

Being in tune is not an opinion, its a fact.

But my point is - how are we supposed to decipher whether someone is right that she was out of tune or that someone else is right that they were in tune? How is it possible to decipher who is right and who is wrong? Because both sides will believe they are right - so surely it's got to be an opinion? If it's not and it's just bias, then one of the sides could easily say 'you're the one that's biased', but the other could then say the same, thus providing no resolution. So it's got to be an opinion if everyone can't agree that she was in/out of tune and whether people are biased or not? What else could it be?

Originally Posted by Vicky.

That being said, she was not out of tune for the entire performance, only in parts.

Well that I agree with, though only small parts.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

Mary was horrifically off key. I love that song too

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Out of respect for all the Irish men who fought with the Allies in WW2, even though they didn't have to?

eh no. They're not my army and so I would not be wearing a poppy.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Zee

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.