[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's no defending this, The whole 'oh but the Taliban wouldn't treat our dead with respect' point people have been saying is just repugnant. Just because the Taliban don't always fight fair doesn't mean it gives the right for the forces to commit acts like this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why should we lower ourselves to their standards? It'd just void everything we're trying to achieve in Afghanistan.

Yes exactly, it's madness to be in Afghanistan on the basis of bringing democracy to the country and then go and try and downplay this act as if it doesn't go against everything they're supposedly fighting for. That doesn't just make it disgusting, it makes it hypocritical as well.

And let's not forget that despoiling the dead is also illegal under both the Geneva convention and under US military law, they will hopefully face prosecution

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's no defending this, The whole 'oh but the Taliban wouldn't treat our dead with respect' point people have been saying is just repugnant. Just because the Taliban don't always fight fair doesn't mean it gives the right for the forces to commit acts like this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why should we lower ourselves to their standards? It'd just void everything we're trying to achieve in Afghanistan.

It's easy to sit safely at home and say things like this.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

.......And let's not forget that despoiling the dead is also illegal under both the Geneva convention and under US military law, they will hopefully face prosecution

Perhaps someone will be good enough to send a copy of the Geneva Convention to the Taliban.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Perhaps someone will be good enough to send a copy of the Geneva Convention to the Taliban.

Bit of a moot point, the Taliban have never claimed to uphold the Geneva convention as the US do, or make such things illegal under their own military law. It doesn't seem much of an argument to me to say that "well the Taliban do it to", the Taliban also use suicide bombings but that wouldn't be a justification for NATO forces to start using them

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Perhaps someone will be good enough to send a copy of the Geneva Convention to the Taliban.

If we lower ourselves to commit such acts then tell me, what makes us any better then them?

Originally Posted by Livia

It's easy to sit safely at home and say things like this.

It's also easy not to piss over corpses but it didn't stop these soldiers didn't it?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes exactly, it's madness to be in Afghanistan on the basis of bringing democracy to the country and then go and try and downplay this act as if it doesn't go against everything they're supposedly fighting for. That doesn't just make it disgusting, it makes it hypocritical as well.

And let's not forget that despoiling the dead is also illegal under both the Geneva convention and under US military law, they will hopefully face prosecution

the geneva conventions are a joke, as is the UN, when's the last time western europe or the UN actually got stuck in to solve a problem. IF the UN did it's job then maybe the Iraq and Afghan wars would never have happened. If the UN actually did any thing at all, why does no one ask, why isn't the UN actually doing **** to stop wars???

WHat has the UN done against the taliban everytime they break the Geneva conventions??? Abosolutely NOTHING.

The UN is a pathetic joke.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the geneva conventions are a joke, as is the UN, when's the last time western europe or the UN actually got stuck in to solve a problem. IF the UN did it's job then maybe the Iraq and Afghan wars would never have happened. If the UN actually did any thing at all, why does no one ask, why isn't the UN actually doing **** to stop wars???

WHat has the UN done against the taliban everytime they break the Geneva conventions??? Abosolutely NOTHING.

Are the US Military Laws a joke?

The UN is currently involved in 16 peacekeeping missions worldwide, a lot of them in places most people don't give a sh*t about or aren't reported

And see my above post, plus it's quite hard to actually prosecute the Taliban given the circumstances. We just kill them instead.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Are the US Military Laws a joke?

The UN is currently involved in 16 peacekeeping missions worldwide, a lot of them in places most people don't give a sh*t about or aren't reported

And see my above post, plus it's quite hard to actually prosecute the Taliban given the circumstances. We just kill them instead.

Yea and alot of those peace keeping missions, we hear about the "peacekeepers" raping little girls and spreading diseases, so what's yur point??
The relief effort in Haiti, led by UN peacekeepers, the UN brought Cholera into Haiti, how many times have we heard about the UN peacekeepers being accused of pedophilia and rape in Africa?? too many to count.

The UN "peacekeepers" are much worse than anything we've seen from US and NATO troops.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Yea and alot of those peace keeping missions, we hear about the "peacekeepers" raping little girls and spreading diseases, so what's yur point??
The relief effort in Haiti, led by UN peacekeepers, the UN brought Cholera into Haiti, how many times have we heard about the UN peacekeepers being accused of pedophilia and rape in Africa?? too many to count.

The UN "peacekeepers" are much worse than anything we've seen from US and NATO troops.

Hmm I don't know that much about the UN peacekeepers tbh and this is going a bit off topic, but fact remains the US have signed and ratified the Geneva convention, and this act is illegal under both that and their own military law

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Hmm I don't know that much about the UN peacekeepers tbh and this is going a bit off topic, but fact remains the US have signed and ratified the Geneva convention, and this act is illegal under both that and their own military law

Well i agree, the US should hold itself to a higher standard, and this video is disgraceful, and i'm sure all involved will be punished.

Perhaps we should be holding EVERYONE to such a high standard though, that's my only point.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well i agree, the US should hold itself to a higher standard, and this video is disgraceful, and i'm sure all involved will be punished.

Perhaps we should be holding EVERYONE to such a high standard though, that's my only point.

Well the Taliban are technically accountable to the Geneva convention but like I said it's not exactly easy to prosecute them while the war is going on, but if, for example, Bin Laden had been captured instead of just killed then he would have too have been prosecuted under the convention

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well the Taliban are technically accountable to the Geneva convention but like I said it's not exactly easy to prosecute them while the war is going on, but if, for example, Bin Laden had been captured instead of just killed then he would have too have been prosecuted under the convention

The Taliban are not subject to the Geneva convention because they do not have a country or uniforms or a government.


An interesting question though, would it be better for the world for Bin Laden to have had a world wide platform to speak his hate? Would it benefit the world in any way for him to have a platform in court to spread his hateful propaganda and paint himself as a victim? Or is it actually better that he never got that chance?

Sometimes doing the right thing isn't pretty. Sometimes denying people rights is actually protecting other peoples rights.

It is illegal to preach racism in Europe right? You can be put in jail in Europe for saying something racist. Personally i believe in free speech, but maybe sometimes, you should protect people from very manipulative speech that could cause more violence.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's no defending this, The whole 'oh but the Taliban wouldn't treat our dead with respect' point people have been saying is just repugnant. Just because the Taliban don't always fight fair doesn't mean it gives the right for the forces to commit acts like this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why should we lower ourselves to their standards? It'd just void everything we're trying to achieve in Afghanistan.

We all agree, that its disgusting and appaling. Its safe to say, most people would never do such a thing. My point is, it does happen, all the time, in war situations, on any side. So, I am not shocked watsoever. This is a reason, to avoid putting people in those situations, at all costs. Soldiers commit atrocities, they sometimes kill, or see innocent civilians being killed. So they are all somewhat, scared for life, because they would never do such a thing otherwise. These are usually regular people, some just teenagers wanting to get paid. Because you make good money, if youre deployed. But the things that they see, and do, turn them into neanderthals. Not saying everyone has done such things, directly. But they've all seen it, or been around it. Only because o the soldiers code, they dont put it in any reports. Unfortunately, people like to film everything these days, thats why, more and more are revealed now. But its nothing new, or surprising.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Is pissing on a dead person really that bad though? I mean they are already dead. Whther they went to "paradise" to have sex with 72 virgins, or whether they are burning in hell for all eternity, eigther way they are long gone from this world. Every cell in their bodies will melt back into the earth, with or without being pissed on.

ITS BAD because you are supposed to respect the dead, no matter what, even executed criminals, gets a proper respect and burial.
I thing everyone will agree, that its 'THAT BAD". The only thing is, I am not surprised, that it does happen.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

ITS BAD because you are supposed to respect the dead, no matter what, even executed criminals, gets a proper respect and burial.
I thing everyone will agree, that its 'THAT BAD". The only thing is, I am not surprised, that it does happen.

i didn't say it's not bad, I asked is it THAT bad...

Is it comparable to waterboarding live human beings? i think not.

Is it comparable to the Abuse of live prisoners in Abu Graib? i think not.

I'm just sayin it's not THAT bad.

I remember like 4 or 5 years ago there a video of a US marine throwing a dog off a cliff. Is this even as bad as that? i don't think so.

Compared to the other scandals in the "war on terrorism" it doesn't seem THAT bad to me.

It's wrong, but is it THAT wrong?

[CharlieO]

Put all men together in an army this is what you get. Men will always try to act like 'lads' in front of each other to impress. Though I am truly disgusted by this.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i didn't say it's not bad, I asked is it THAT bad...

Is it comparable to waterboarding live human beings? i think not.

Is it comparable to the Abuse of live prisoners in Abu Graib? i think not.

I'm just sayin it's not THAT bad.

I remember like 4 or 5 years ago there a video of a US marine throwing a dog off a cliff. Is this even as bad as that? i don't think so.

Compared to the other scandals in the "war on terrorism" it doesn't seem THAT bad to me.

It's wrong, but is it THAT wrong?

There are different degrees on wrongness, torture may be deemed necessary in order to obtain information that could save lives, note the word could, Sometimes it doesnt.

Abuse of live prisoners is as wrong as body desecration, creates the same results, hate from the people we need on our side.

Originally Posted by CharlieO

Put all men together in an army this is what you get. Men will always try to act like 'lads' in front of each other to impress. Though I am truly disgusted by this.

Sorry Charlie but thats garbage. Its not about acting the lad or being macho

Its caused by the elation of still being alive when rounds are flying and others are dying.

Its about the feelings after action of guilt and pure and utter happinesss not to be lying either dead or covered in your own blood and s**t.

During any sort of combat the adrenaline flows as do other hormones and chemicals.

Afterwards you come down fast, but you are still buzzing. Only problem is the normal inhibitions we impose have been loosened by the buzz and fear. You sit giggling, minor things are hilarious, you are floating in something called the joie de vivre - the ecstatic elation of being alive.

Dont think this posing thing is anything new, its happened during and after battles throughout history, only difference is nowadays the troops carry mobile phones with cameras or even hand held DV recorders.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marc

Absolutely disgusting, they are human beings. I might be seen as naive with my opinion but I don't believe anybody deserves to have their body treated like that once they've died, perhaps ignorant of me but I would like to think there is not one single person in th world who see this as acceptable and that not one person regards this as 'not a bad thing'.

It's awful

This.

I'm no fan of the American empire, and on the surface this seems like a really bad story. However, I think it's worse for people that have a religious belief, which the taliban obviously do.

Once I am no more in this life, then that's it for me. All that will be left is soon to be rotting flesh, and the beginning of a new ecology for fly eggs/maggots etc.

I can only relate this to how I would feel, and would I be bothered if someone took a piss on me when I was dead?

The simple answer is no, although, the American Empire will not be winning any hearts and minds with these actions.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I'm no fan of the American empire, and on the surface this seems like a really bad story. However, I think it's worse for people that have a religious belief, which the taliban obviously do.

Once I am no more in this life, then that's it for me. All that will be left is soon to be rotting flesh, and the beginning of a new ecology for fly eggs/maggots etc.

I can only relate this to how I would feel, and would I be bothered if someone took a piss on me when I was dead?

The simple answer is no, although, the American Empire will not be winning any hearts and minds with these actions.

the "american empire" was defeated in 1776. so what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by lostalex

the "american empire" was defeated in 1776. so what are you talking about?

America has an unofficial empire. The troops they have across the world in unnecessary countries attest to that fact.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Shasown

The local populace do, its not good to desecrate bodies in anyones eyes, but especially in the Muslim eyes. Especially if the bodies are muslims and the desecrators are infidels

after all they are the ones who the UN protection force are trying to win over

I could not give a FF about muslims and their medieval superstitions. Actions like this will remind them that no one cares about what they think and ultimately whilst they walking around in their socks praying to a made up diety the rest of the world are looking at porn on their Ipad 2's and eating ice cream.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

America has an unofficial empire. The troops they have across the world in unnecessary countries attest to that fact.

unneccesary countries? really? unneccessary when we protected you from the Soviet Union? Unnecesary in the Japan? Really? if you don't see how those bases were necessary, then you need to read a history book.

Try to have some historical perspective please.

the USA does not have any military bases in any country without the explicit permission from those countries. The USA doesn't force it's presence on anyone.

Originally Posted by lostalex

unneccesary countries? really? unneccessary when we protected you from the Soviet Union? Unnecesary in the Japan? Really? if you don't see how those bases were necessary, then you need to read a history book.

Try to have some historical perspective please.

Protected us from the soviet union? Kennedy nearly got us all wiped out in a nuclear war over Cuba.

America has troops in between 100-200 countries. You still haven't left Germany yet. I'm not calling America "the great satan" or anything, but you have a very narrow perspective on your view of history. The cold war is now over, so why do you still need these bases? You actually said it yourself. Those bases "were" necessary.

I know my history, very well, and refuse to whitewash the despicable acts that my own country has perpetrated throughout history. If you expect me to be anything other than objective, you are sadly mistaken, and your defence is pretty lacking in any kind of substance.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Protected us from the soviet union? Kennedy nearly got us all wiped out in a nuclear war over Cuba.

America has troops in between 100-200 countries. You still haven't left Germany yet. I'm not calling America "the great satan" or anything, but you have a very narrow perspective on your view of history. The cold war is now over, so why do you still need these bases? You actually said it yourself. Those bases "were" necessary.

I know my history, very well, and refuse to whitewash the despicable acts that my own country has perpetrated throughout history. If you expect me to be anything other than objective, you are sadly mistaken, and your defence is pretty lacking in any kind of substance.

If it wasn't for America, you'd be a Soviet Republic right now. Don't forget that. You had no defense from the soviets just like the rest of post war europe. The only reason democracy survived in Europe was because of American protection. That's a SOLID FACT.