[mrlecturer]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Well didn't you just get infinitely more interesting.

Gandhi was used by many civil rights leaders, most notably, Martin Luther King. I'm not sure what your point is exactly, but I don't need to read many books written about him in this instance, when his own words speak so loudly.

"Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."

“Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.”

With any historical figure, there is a debate over intentions/actions etc, but where we have their actual words, I think it's only fair of doing them the courtesy of accepting what they say on face value.

I know you are a Muslim, so I'll tread carefully with my next point, I have an ex-girlfriend (Muslim) whose family were from Pakistan originally, and she used to call me Kaffir as a playful insult. She told me it meant infidel or non believer, and was very much a derogatory term when used in it's original context.

Maybe you can enlighten me on your description of the word Kaffir?

If he's being used as an example of civil justice by African-Americans such as MLK, then does that not undermine the initial claim that he was a racist? Or were MLK and DeBois merely overlooking that? How? If the claim was true, I don't think you would've found a single, African-American, proponent of Gandhi.

Your ex was from Pakistan? Urdu is the official language (one that I also speak) with English, and though the language has adopted many Arabic words, some do not have the same meaning. I've also studied Islamic History, and the word kafir was first mentioned in Medina circa 630 C.E., to describe those who did not submit to the divine message. In essence, it meant - non-believer. People in the city were categorized in three groups (Muslims (who submitted), Kafirs (who did not), Munafiq (who were hypocrites, not true believers). But Islamic Revivalists in the 19-20th century started using the word it in a different light, further compounded by the apartheid in South Africa (where the word was as bad as the N word).

So yes, the word since the start of Islam has continuously evolved, taking a more negative meaning. By Gandhi's time the word was still commonplace, but still did not carry the venom it did till after his death. I will say though Gandhi's views on racial/caste segregation did change when he moved from South Africa. I'm doing a double major, in political science and history, and I've read Gandhi more than a hundred times over 4 years, but I still can't call him a racist - because that would directly contradict his achievements in India.

here's my quote : "I believe in a long, prolonged, derangement of the senses in order to obtain the unknown." -Jim Morrison.