[kirklancaster]

It was even envisaged as The Fourth Reich, and its architects were Nazis who realised that they were losing the Second World War and that they could not conquer Europe by military means so must do so by Economic means.

Merkells is the NEW Fuhrer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...kels-tune.html

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It was even envisaged as The Fourth Reich, and its architects were Nazis who realised that they were losing the Second World War and that they could not conquer Europe by military means so must do so by Economic means.

Merkells is the NEW Fuhrer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...kels-tune.html

What do you mean by comparing Angela Merkel to Adolf Hitler? I'm not understanding your logic here.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What do you mean by comparing Angela Merkel to Adolf Hitler? I'm not understanding your logic here.

This is what turns me off UKIP, the rhetoric as to anything they and their supporters don't like or want as being the absolute truth and all that matters.
Everyone else wrong, only they being right, in their view.

The hard extreme of dismissing everything anyone else says that challenges the UKIP viewpoint,usually with nasty put downs and unnecessary personal insults too.

Had Labour won the election, it would have done a lot I would have not liked,a lot I would and I would have criticised anything I didn't like.
I have never, and still don't believe only one party has the answers to everything.

As to immigration and this topic as to it today, we all knew the immigration figures when this govt. came to power,it was falling when this govt' came to power too.
It was this PM who said he was going to get it down to tens of thousands.
in 5 years,no ifs,no buts.

It has considerably gone up under his watch,no one elses,almost back to the levels Labour were hammered for it reaching, still he gets no blame.
He cannot in fact do anything about it really,UKIP cannot either, unless we are out of the EU.
Thankfully now businesses are getting behind the staying in side, coming out won't happen and really immigration will just have to be tolerated in the main by all parties under the EU guidelines to same.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is what turns me off UKIP, the rhetoric as to anything they and their supporters don't like or want as being the absolute truth and all that matters.
Everyone else wrong, only they being right, in their view.

The hard extreme of dismissing everything anyone else says that challenges the UKIP viewpoint,usually with nasty put downs and unnecessary personal insults too.

Had Labour won the election, it would have done a lot I would have not liked,a lot I would and I would have criticised anything I didn't like.
I have never, and still don't believe only one party has the answers to everything.

As to immigration and this topic as to it today, we all knew the immigration figures when this govt. came to power,it was falling when this govt' came to power too.
It was this PM who said he was going to get it down to tens of thousands.
in 5 years,no ifs,no buts.

It has considerably gone up under his watch,no one elses,almost back to the levels Labour were hammered for it reaching, still he gets no blame.
He cannot in fact do anything about it really,UKIP cannot either, unless we are out of the EU.
Thankfully now businesses are getting behind the staying in side, coming out won't happen and really immigration will just have to be tolerated in the main by all parties under the EU guidelines to same.

another prediction?

like the election result?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is what turns me off UKIP, the rhetoric as to anything they and their supporters don't like or want as being the absolute truth and all that matters.
Everyone else wrong, only they being right, in their view.

The hard extreme of dismissing everything anyone else says that challenges the UKIP viewpoint,usually with nasty put downs and unnecessary personal insults too.

Had Labour won the election, it would have done a lot I would have not liked,a lot I would and I would have criticised anything I didn't like.
I have never, and still don't believe only one party has the answers to everything.

As to immigration and this topic as to it today, we all knew the immigration figures when this govt. came to power,it was falling when this govt' came to power too.
It was this PM who said he was going to get it down to tens of thousands.
in 5 years,no ifs,no buts.

It has considerably gone up under his watch,no one elses,almost back to the levels Labour were hammered for it reaching, still he gets no blame.
He cannot in fact do anything about it really,UKIP cannot either, unless we are out of the EU.
Thankfully now businesses are getting behind the staying in side, coming out won't happen and really immigration will just have to be tolerated in the main by all parties under the EU guidelines to same.

oh aye I forgot you new labour fans get all offended or rather pretend to get offended by the most trivial things, the wrong adjective and new labourites always falsely accuse others of bigotry , yet ignore illegal wars million plus dead innocents endless innocents dying in the british hospitals from starvation thirst and neglect. nothing to say about that. evolting lying war mongers........oh but lets just blame it all on bush eh? easy cop out. funny so many other nations didn't join in the illegal wars they had more backbone more morality

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

oh aye I forgot you new labour fans get all offended or rather pretend to get offended by the most trivial things, the wrong adjective and new labourites always falsely accuse others of bigotry , yet ignore illegal wars million plus dead innocents endless innocents dying in the british hospitals from starvation thirst and neglect. nothing to say about that. evolting lying war mongers........oh but lets just blame it all on bush eh? easy cop out. funny so many other nations didn't join in the illegal wars they had more backbone more morality

As Labour supporters are we not entitled to a view?
I really object to your accusations that ALL Labour supporters were in support of taking the UK to war, that is NOT true.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As Labour supporters are we not entitled to a view?
I really object to your accusations that ALL Labour supporters were in support of taking the UK to war, that is NOT true.

I dint ear many apologies from new labour, warmonger hume didn't even bother counting up the innocent dead, he simply didn't care....just like the fake new labourites who followed him into hell. 95% of the female mps voted for the illegal invasion too....so much for new labours radical view than women will mean less violence less war...yet another new labour lie that cost the lives of thousands. new labour are dead. they are pond life scum. hopefully in time some of them will be charged with war crimes. its also tragically funny to see ed balls up, the man who bankrupted us, actually as shadow chancellor for 5 years? just shows you the new labour idiots learnt nothing

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As Labour supporters are we not entitled to a view?
I really object to your accusations that ALL Labour supporters were in support of taking the UK to war, that is NOT true.

I would have been against it Kizzy,I wasn't a Labour supporter then anyway,in fact as you yourself weren't either.
I really am stunned how these attacks are allowed to go on.
This is a thread about today's immigration figures not the Iraq war.

I have to say I am sadly getting really dismayed on here these last 3 days, really fed up of things now,sick of and rather weary of getting pulled up on every comment I make in so nastily and unnecessarily a fashion from 2 to 3 people.
It seems you get nowhere complaining either.

Options are running out but I am not really putting up with this much longer.
I love tibb but am fast coming to the point where enough really is enough.
By the way, just as they are, you are fully entitled and should be too, as to voicing your opinions,no matter what party you support or your views on immigration, without getting nasty insults and belittling attacks back for doing so.
At least I thought and believed that was how it should be.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I would have been against it Kizzy,I wasn't a Labour supporter then anyway,in fact as you yourself weren't either.
I really am stunned how these attacks are allowed to go on.
This is a thread about today's immigration figures not the Iraq war.

I have to say I am sadly getting really dismayed on here these last 3 days, really fed up of things now,sick of and rather weary of getting pulled up on every comment I make in so nastily and unnecessarily a fashion from 2 to 3 people.
It seems you get nowhere complaining either.

Options are running out but I am not really putting up with this much longer.
I love tibb but am fast coming to the point where enough really is enough.
By the way, just as they are, you are fully entitled and should be too, as to voicing your opinions,no matter what party you support or your views on immigration, without getting nasty insults and belittling attacks back for doing so.
At least I thought and believed that was how it should be.

It's like water off a ducks back, we could raise issues going back to the 80s the sinking of the belgrano to the destabilisation due to military intervention in 2011... but what's the point?
I'm not getting drawn out.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As Labour supporters are we not entitled to a view?
I really object to your accusations that ALL Labour supporters were in support of taking the UK to war, that is NOT true.

labour represents a very wide spectrum of views compared to insular little activist parties like ukip

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

labour represents a very wide spectrum of views compared to insular little activist parties like ukip

And Labour has also a LONG, LONG, history of deceit, corruption, mismanagement, waste, broken election promises, 'U' Turns and failures compared to 'insular little activist parties like ukip'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

labour represents a very wide spectrum of views compared to insular little activist parties like ukip

I agree, I don't pay any mind or get drawn out by provocative comments it's a to and fro that never ends well

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is what turns me off UKIP, the rhetoric as to anything they and their supporters don't like or want as being the absolute truth and all that matters.
Everyone else wrong, only they being right, in their view.

The hard extreme of dismissing everything anyone else says that challenges the UKIP viewpoint,usually with nasty put downs and unnecessary personal insults too.

Had Labour won the election, it would have done a lot I would have not liked,a lot I would and I would have criticised anything I didn't like.
I have never, and still don't believe only one party has the answers to everything.

As to immigration and this topic as to it today, we all knew the immigration figures when this govt. came to power,it was falling when this govt' came to power too.
It was this PM who said he was going to get it down to tens of thousands.
in 5 years,no ifs,no buts.

It has considerably gone up under his watch,no one elses,almost back to the levels Labour were hammered for it reaching, still he gets no blame.
He cannot in fact do anything about it really,UKIP cannot either, unless we are out of the EU.
Thankfully now businesses are getting behind the staying in side, coming out won't happen and really immigration will just have to be tolerated in the main by all parties under the EU guidelines to same.

Sorry, but I can't accept this as it's a complete and utter reversal of the true status quo - it is the Left Wing on here who in the main arrogantly presume that their views are the absolute truth and who either 'gang up' to 'shout down' any opposing views, or ignore posts which expose their views as wrong only to then post those same fallacious views on other threads.

The EU DID irrefutably see the first light of day as a a plan by defeated Nazis to conquer Europe economically, and the UK subscribed to the EU on terms which were wholly unfavourable to the UK but covertly favourable to a succession of treacherous bastards like Ted Heath who took us into this madness for their own mercenary and greedy reasons.

There are NO genuine benefits to our being in the EU or staying in the EU and NO WAY that we can ever recoup the trillions of pounds which being in the EU has cost the tax payers of this country during our 40 years of that unmitigated disaster of a membership.

Is there a business or investment scheme which any SANE person would subscribe to after suffering increasing financial losses year in year out for 40 years?

Is there even a business or investment scheme which would STILL BE IN BUSINESS after suffering such increasing losses year in year out?

Like the corruptly run Nationalised Industries before it, and like EVERY inept UK Government there has ever been, and like every corrupt and inept Council and Public Sector body this country has ever seen, the EU survives because the horrific results of corruption and waste and inept fiscal practices, are easily lessened because the huge holes in the balance sheets are not so instantly observable when we are talking trillions of pounds of PUBLIC MONEY - that never-ending well which the corrupt and greedy can perpetually return to, and when in addition the fabulously wealthy corporations, businessmen and bent political figures who DO GAIN from our membership of the EU at the expense of the UK, ALL OWN AND CONTROL the vast PRO-EU propaganda machines which took us in and have kept us in despite the TRUTH BEING OUT THERE, and DESPITE the warnings of honourable, TRUTHFUL men like NIGEL FARAGE who that same propaganda machine has constantly lied about and ridiculed and continues to do so.

The EU is unique in that it is the ultimate example of disgustingly greedy Capitalists BLATANTLY employing a perverse form of Communism to increase their own personal wealth and that of their upper social class at the expense and to the detriment of the lower classes:

'From each regardless of his means to each according to his greed'

THESE GUYS are the ONES BENEFITING from the EU NOT US. THEY get the GRANTS and KICKBACKS and we PAY the BILLIONS PER YEAR COSTS AND STAND THE FINANCIAL LOSSES which enable this situation to continue.

40 years of unmitigated failure, corruption, wasteful mismanagement, and negative annual balance sheets amounting to trillions of pounds in losses to the UK.

The Common Agriculture Policy with its subsidies to the wrong people, the butter and cheese mountains and wine and milk lakes which have KEPT the PRICE OF OUR FOOD three times HIGHER than it SHOULD have been for that 40 years, the decimation of our Fishing Industry, the loss of our Sovereignty, Our control of our Judicial System, Borders etc etc etc.

It's PURE MADNESS.

After 40 years, now, all of a sudden - after Farage had woken up some of the slumbering populace who had overfed on all the pro-EU propaganda - Cameron is going to negotiate better this and that and shet Marigolds.

It's BS.

Even the "three million jobs will go if we exit the EU" claim which treacherous lying ***** like Clegg keeps spouting as gospel is a false premise and a lie. The very authors of the report which that claim is MISQUOTED from have repeatedly and publicly DENIED that that's what they said or meant.

They actually said that "3 million jobs could be dependent upon our export market." - with NO MENTION OF THE COMMON MARKET.

Get us out.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry, but I can't accept this as it's a complete and utter reversal of the true status quo - it is the Left Wing on here who in the main arrogantly presume that their views are the absolute truth and who either 'gang up' to 'shout down' any opposing views, or ignore posts which expose their views as wrong only to then post those same fallacious views on other threads.

The EU DID irrefutably see the first light of day as a a plan by defeated Nazis to conquer Europe economically, and the UK subscribed to the EU on terms which were wholly unfavourable to the UK but covertly favourable to a succession of treacherous bastards like Ted Heath who took us into this madness for their own mercenary and greedy reasons.

There are NO genuine benefits to our being in the EU or staying in the EU and NO WAY that we can ever recoup the trillions of pounds which being in the EU has cost the tax payers of this country during our 40 years of that unmitigated disaster of a membership.

Is there a business or investment scheme which any SANE person would subscribe to after suffering increasing financial losses year in year out for 40 years?

Is there even a business or investment scheme which would STILL BE IN BUSINESS after suffering such increasing losses year in year out?

Like the corruptly run Nationalised Industries before it, and like EVERY inept UK Government there has ever been, and like every corrupt and inept Council and Public Sector body this country has ever seen, the EU survives because the horrific results of corruption and waste and inept fiscal practices, are easily lessened because the huge holes in the balance sheets are not so instantly observable when we are talking trillions of pounds of PUBLIC MONEY - that never-ending well which the corrupt and greedy can perpetually return to, and when in addition the fabulously wealthy corporations, businessmen and bent political figures who DO GAIN from our membership of the EU at the expense of the UK, ALL OWN AND CONTROL the vast PRO-EU propaganda machines which took us in and have kept us in despite the TRUTH BEING OUT THERE, and DESPITE the warnings of honourable, TRUTHFUL men like NIGEL FARAGE who that same propaganda machine has constantly lied about and ridiculed and continues to do so.

The EU is unique in that it is the ultimate example of disgustingly greedy Capitalists BLATANTLY employing a perverse form of Communism to increase their own personal wealth and that of their upper social class at the expense and to the detriment of the lower classes:

'From each regardless of his means to each according to his greed'

THESE GUYS are the ONES BENEFITING from the EU NOT US. THEY get the GRANTS and KICKBACKS and we PAY the BILLIONS PER YEAR COSTS AND STAND THE FINANCIAL LOSSES which enable this situation to continue.

40 years of unmitigated failure, corruption, wasteful mismanagement, and negative annual balance sheets amounting to trillions of pounds in losses to the UK.

The Common Agriculture Policy with its subsidies to the wrong people, the butter and cheese mountains and wine and milk lakes which have KEPT the PRICE OF OUR FOOD three times HIGHER than it SHOULD have been for that 40 years, the decimation of our Fishing Industry, the loss of our Sovereignty, Our control of our Judicial System, Borders etc etc etc.

It's PURE MADNESS.

After 40 years, now, all of a sudden - after Farage had woken up some of the slumbering populace who had overfed on all the pro-EU propaganda - Cameron is going to negotiate better this and that and shet Marigolds.

It's BS.

Even the "three million jobs will go if we exit the EU" claim which treacherous lying ***** like Clegg keeps spouting as gospel is a false premise and a lie. The very authors of the report which that claim is MISQUOTED from have repeatedly and publicly DENIED that that's what they said or meant.

They actually said that "3 million jobs could be dependent upon our export market." - with NO MENTION OF THE COMMON MARKET.

Get us out.

With respect Kirk you have hammered people against UKIPs stance as being left wing militants,in a generalised way, you are not the only one but in doing so you do insult people of that persuasion.

I respect the right of anyone to support who they please, I have said many times on here, I think it a disgrace that UKIP could get 3,800,000 votes and only 1 seat.

I have also, over the last months noted the worth of some of UKIPs social policies, such as scrapping the bedroom tax and ending ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled.

My moan with UKIP is the big ones unfortunately, the EU and immigration.

You slam down anything I say, others too, its not for me to say who, just for their views which like you, they are entitled to hold too.

I wasn't on here for the last election and I am sad that I was on for this one, since I have come to alter how I think of some I really respected.
You were one, however, I am not going to accept being generalised as a left wing militant,so since that has only come from UKIP supporters,I will stand against it.

All those statistics you quote are fine but if we wanted to, they could be presented another way that could back most of our arguments too.
Statistics say what the people quoting them or gathering them want them to say.

Anyway,you are not having me say,I don't like UKIPs stance on issues or the way the message I stated came across.
You then go straight into the left wing attack on here with the word arrogant added in too, as in relation to my post and my words.
You and I have had some good chats on here and not so good ones,however I am fed up of this left wing prejudice you portray against me and others in a generalised sense on here and in relation to my posts too.

In fact, you know what, I am fed up of here totally anyway and am sick of being got at.
I have really had all I am going to take from you and 2 others on here now, really had it beyond the level of tolerance now.

Needless to say, I disagree with most of what your post outlines anyway too,I won't however use any terminology of what side of politics is right or wrong as to the statements.
I stand by my view, that no party is always right and none always wrong either, it is for people to choose and they should not be belittled,got at or insulted as I and others have been just for having a view that is different to yours and others who sympathise with UKIP.

That all used to be against the rules, it seems it isn't any longer, so maybe I have now been on here too long.
I am not however taking any more of it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With respect Kirk you have hammered people against UKIPs stance as being left wing militants,in a generalised way, you are not the only one but in doing so you do insult people of that persuasion.

I respect the right of anyone to support who they please, I have said many time on here, I think it a disgrace that UKIP could get 3,800,000 votes and only 1 seat.

I have also, over the last months noted the worth of some of UKIPs social policies, such as scrapping the bedroom tax and ending ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled.

My moan with UKIP is the big ones unfortunately, the EU and immigration.

You slam down anything I say, others too, its not for me to say who just for their views which like you, they are entitled to hold too.

I wasn't on here for the last election and I am sad that I was on for this one, since I have come to alter how I think of some I really respected,you were one, however, I am not going to accept being generalised as a left wing militant,so since that has only come from UKIP supporters,I will stand against it.

All those statistics you quote are fine but if we wanted to, they could be presented another way that could back most of our arguments too.
Statistics say what the people quoting them or gathering them want them to say.

Anyway,you are not having me say,I don't like UKIPs stance on issues or the way the message I stated came across, you then go straight into the left wing on here with the word arrogant added in relation to my post and my words.
You and I have had some good chats on here and not so good ones,however I am fed up of this left wing prejudice you portray against me and others in a generalised sense on here and in relation to my posts too.

In fact, you know what, I am fed up of here totally anyway and am sick of being got at.
I have really had all I am going to take from you and 2 others on here now, really had it beyond the level of tolerance now.

Needless to say, I disagree with most of what your post outlines anyway too,I won't however use any terminology of what side of poltics is right or wrong as to the statements.
I stand by my view, that no party is always right and none always wrong either, it is for people to choose and they should not be belittled,got at or insulted as I and others have been just for having a view that is different to yours and others who sympathise with UKIP.

That all used to be against the rules, it seems it isn't any longer, so maybe I have now been on here too long.
I am not however taking any more of it.

Joey, apart from the first paragraph - reproduced below - where in my post have I belittled you personally or even the Labour Party?

My post is specifically about the EU and chiefly the corrupt Tories who took us in and are keeping us in.

"Sorry, but I can't accept this as it's a complete and utter reversal of the true status quo - it is the Left Wing on here who in the main arrogantly presume that their views are the absolute truth and who either 'gang up' to 'shout down' any opposing views, or ignore posts which expose their views as wrong only to then post those same fallacious views on other threads."

And even the first paragraph above is NO MORE personal than your posts or Kizzy's or JoshBB's are when opposing my posts or The Truths or LT's, so I do not understand your reaction.

I did not agree with your contentions below and posted a counter. What is wrong with that Joey?

"This is what turns me off UKIP, the rhetoric as to anything they and their supporters don't like or want as being the absolute truth and all that matters.
Everyone else wrong, only they being right, in their view.

The hard extreme of dismissing everything anyone else says that challenges the UKIP viewpoint,usually with nasty put downs and unnecessary personal insults too."

I respect you Joey and I would rather cease posting than have you quit - especially when I do not see anything wrong with my post?