[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Actually yeah I've just checked and I was confused with a case that the McCanns referenced after the cadaver scent was found, they used a case where a man was found not guilty of murder because the particular cadaver dogs used in his case were unreliable. But yeah I'll admit that's pretty damning, I think maybe I need to read up more about it because having a brief look through this thread there's a lot I wasn't aware of. I've just always thought that there was no proof, no charges etc, and that the kidnap scenario is plausible (the alternative being so horrific).

Yeah look I was the same until I really started reading up on it, it isnt nice to think they were involved (not that I think they actually killed her but more likely covered up her death) but it does seem to point to that

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Actually yeah I've just checked and I was confused with a case that the McCanns referenced after the cadaver scent was found, they used a case where a man was found not guilty of murder because the particular cadaver dogs used in his case were unreliable. But yeah I'll admit that's pretty damning, I think maybe I need to read up more about it because having a brief look through this thread there's a lot I wasn't aware of. I've just always thought that there was no proof, no charges etc, and that the kidnap scenario is plausible (the alternative being so horrific).

And to add if they really knew nothing about what happened to her why would rhey instantly try to trash what the dogs found? Why not say My God maybe she died here and someone moved her? Lets investigate this more?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Actually yeah I've just checked and I was confused with a case that the McCanns referenced after the cadaver scent was found, they used a case where a man was found not guilty of murder because the particular cadaver dogs used in his case were unreliable. But yeah I'll admit that's pretty damning, I think maybe I need to read up more about it because having a brief look through this thread there's a lot I wasn't aware of. I've just always thought that there was no proof, no charges etc, and that the kidnap scenario is plausible (the alternative being so horrific).

Yes..that was unfortunate to pin their hopes on, given Eugene Zapata later confessed to murder, admitted the body was were the dogs indicated.

I mean, its been reported so many times that the squad working on this case from Scotland Yard is the homicide squad. Not missing persons or something, homicide. Why on earth would that be? The intruder killing her is impossible given the claimed checking routine. As the body would have to be there for (I believe it is) 90 mins...

[anne666]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do have to admire LT for sticking with this one. I mean, basically everyone else is united in suspecting that the McCanns have at least been "less than truthful" about events. People who disagree on every other topic under the sun are all like "Oh yeah but the McCanns are well dodgy."

But not LT! LT still believes in Kate goddamnit, until the end. He's the Sam to her Frodo .

If anyone's 10 years accumulated knowledge of this case is based on reading years of gagged (until now) biased UK media reports, it's not surprising.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think it's doubtful at this stage, i hope I'm wrong though

I think all that could put an end to their nonsense now is perhaps finding Maddie's body or a confession from one of the Tapas gang. Or they will be sacrificed by the TPTB who've needed to so fiercely protect them. I think it's more likely since the damning Supreme Court ruling, added to far more people now being aware of the PJ files. The truth of what their status has been all along is now widely known after their years of silencing have been stopped and after they've successfully pretended they were proven to be innocent of any involvement.
What kind of parents who are claiming their child has been abducted by peadophiles would totally ignore serious police advice and immediately advertise her distinguishing eye coloboma to the world? Effectively signing her death warrant!
They know exactly what happened to Madeleine and knew it was pointless to get out of their apartment and search for her. I don't believe they were directly involved in her death but they should have had the guts to face the consequences.
As you said they were actually saved by Portuguese Law from being arrested based on the Cadaver and Blood dogs findings.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by anne666

If anyone's 10 years accumulated knowledge of this case is based on reading years of gagged (until now) biased UK media reports, it's not surprising.



I think all that could put an end to their nonsense now is perhaps finding Maddie's body or a confession from one of the Tapas gang. Or they will be sacrificed by the TPTB who've needed to so fiercely protect them. I think it's more likely since the damning Supreme Court ruling, added to far more people now being aware of the PJ files. The truth of what their status has been all along is now widely known after their years of silencing have been stopped and after they've successfully pretended they were proven to be innocent of any involvement.
What kind of parents who are claiming their child has been abducted by peadophiles would totally ignore serious police advice and immediately advertise her distinguishing eye coloboma to the world? Effectively signing her death warrant!
They know exactly what happened to Madeleine and knew it was pointless to get out of their apartment and search for her. I don't believe they were directly involved in her death but they should have had the guts to face the consequences.
As you said they were actually saved by Portuguese Law from being arrested based on the Cadaver and Blood dogs findings.

Yeah that was ridiculous

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that was ridiculous

Ah but Niamh, it was a 'good marketing ploy'. It will make more people aware and as such, make more $ roll in for court cases and mortgage payments Who cares is publicizing that means whoever 'has your daughter' will kill her eh...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ah but Niamh, it was a 'good marketing ploy'. It will make more people aware and as such, make more $ roll in for court cases and mortgage payments Who cares is publicizing that means whoever 'has your daughter' will kill her eh...

I know imagine it seriously, imagine actually thinking your child had been kidnapped and doing that, makes zero sense at all unless you knew she wasn't kidnapped.....

Also what parent would even think about "marketing ploys" when their baby had just disappeared?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I know imagine it seriously, imagine actually thinking your child had been kidnapped and doing that, makes zero sense at all unless you knew she wasn't kidnapped.....

Also what parent would even think about "marketing ploys" when their baby had just disappeared?

Imagine your child had been kidnapped and you didn't physically search yourself, imagine refusing to answer police questions (yes some may be uncomfortable, BUT...parents/family are always first suspects because...statistics) surely you would help any way you could and would want your name cleared.... Imagine your friends kid had gone missing and you refused to do a reconstruction to help police get a better view of the situation. Imagine your child had gone missing and from the start you mislead police by stating the doors were locked and they must have came in through the window, but then its proven you cannot get in via the window without damage, so your own story then changes to 'we left the door open'. Imagine your child has just gone missing and you are planning parties for the year anniversary instead of hoping she would be found any minute. Imagine rubbishing all 'sightings' and complaining that the police were driving too fast to check one out..Infact, I fall at the first hurdle, as I cannot even begin to imagine going on holiday with the kids, dumping them in the creche from morning til night, then leaving them ALONE in a room in a strange place just so I could go out with friends

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Imagine your child had been kidnapped and you didn't physically search yourself, imagine refusing to answer police questions (yes some may be uncomfortable, BUT...parents/family are always first suspects because...statistics) surely you would help any way you could and would want your name cleared.... Imagine your friends kid had gone missing and you refused to do a reconstruction to help police get a better view of the situation. Imagine your child had gone missing and from the start you mislead police by stating the doors were locked and they must have came in through the window, but then its proven you cannot get in via the window without damage, so your own story then changes to 'we left the door open'. Imagine your child has just gone missing and you are planning parties for the year anniversary instead of hoping she would be found any minute. Imagine rubbishing all 'sightings' and complaining that the police were driving too fast to check one out..Infact, I fall at the first hurdle, as I cannot even begin to imagine going on holiday with the kids, dumping them in the creche from morning til night, then leaving them ALONE in a room in a strange place just so I could go out with friends

yep I know it's just crazy, any one of those things you listed would make me suspicious but all of them is just ridiculous.

And I totally agree about the dumping them in the creche all day, why even bother bringing them if they want to spend no time at all with them, usually those type of holidays are all about the kids. I don't know it's just weird, even after ditching them for the whole day that still wasn't enough, they had to dump them at night too

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

yep I know it's just crazy, any one of those things you listed would make me suspicious but all of them is just ridiculous.

And I totally agree about the dumping them in the creche all day, why even bother bringing them if they want to spend no time at all with them, usually those type of holidays are all about the kids. I don't know it's just weird, even after ditching them for the whole day that still wasn't enough, they had to dump them at night too

Indeed. I mean, me and Gav are going away next month. Very much an adult holiday, I plan to relax, eat and drink far too much and forget about everything. So...the kids are staying at grandads for that week. They will love it, they always do. Why would I even consider taking them just to dump on other people and ignore them. Its just stupid.

If the kids didn't like staying with grandad, or grandad couldn't have them...we would have had a different kind of holiday. A FAMILY one where focus is on the kids.

Simple..right?!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed. I mean, me and Gav are going away next month. Very much an adult holiday, I plan to relax, eat and drink far too much and forget about everything. So...the kids are staying at grandads for that week. They will love it, they always do. Why would I even consider taking them just to dump on other people and ignore them. Its just stupid.

If the kids didn't like staying with grandad, or grandad couldn't have them...we would have had a different kind of holiday. A FAMILY one where focus is on the kids.

Simple..right?!

Exactly, especially with very young kids like yours (which are probably close to the ages that Maddie and the twins would have been back then, right?) I would not feel comfortable dropping them off with total strangers either. Jeez Luke cried every single day when i dropped him to nursery school when he was 3, it broke my heart leaving him there

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly, especially with very young kids like yours (which are probably close to the ages that Maddie and the twins would have been back then, right?) I would not feel comfortable dropping them off with total strangers either. Jeez Luke cried every single day when i dropped him to nursery school when he was 3, it broke my heart leaving him there

Skyes actually older than Madeleine was. God thats mental. James is the age the twins were..so yeah.

When we went to centre parcs, we did put them in the creche for 2 hours. Mainly as Skye kept asking to go in (there was a door that looked like a tree...this seemed to be the reason) so I can't criticize putting them in there on the odd occasion. But to put them in the morning til night every day?! Nah. Even if they asked to be in there all that time I would still say no. Its meant to be a family holiday.

And yes, Skye cried her eyes out first day at nursery. Staff told me to just go as a lot of kids are like that. I can still hear the piercing screams to this day She loves it now, she loved it 10 mins after I left...but it went against every instinct I had to just leave her there in that state.

[Cal.]

Yeah I agree that you either go on an adults holiday or a kids holiday. Trying to do both is unfair on the children in my opinion.

[ebandit]

...note to the mc cann's.................a child is for life...............not until they

disrupt one's holiday..........................

Mark L

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Skyes actually older than Madeleine was. God thats mental. James is the age the twins were..so yeah.

When we went to centre parcs, we did put them in the creche for 2 hours. Mainly as Skye kept asking to go in (there was a door that looked like a tree...this seemed to be the reason) so I can't criticize putting them in there on the odd occasion. But to put them in the morning til night every day?! Nah. Even if they asked to be in there all that time I would still say no. Its meant to be a family holiday.

And yes, Skye cried her eyes out first day at nursery. Staff told me to just go as a lot of kids are like that. I can still hear the piercing screams to this day She loves it now, she loved it 10 mins after I left...but it went against every instinct I had to just leave her there in that state.

Luke never got used to it the only day he didn't cry when I left him was the very last day...because it was the last day.

[Suze]

Something that puzzles me that if say we take it that it was a kidnapping, then why take the biggest and possibly noisiest of the three children and hardest one to get through a small window or anything else they claimed happened with the kidnapping scenerio

[Niamh.]

"I went through a phase of guilt for not knowing what happened to her. I blamed myself for thinking that the place was safe.
"But the certainty that we are truly responsible parents has helped me carry on.
"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."
Asked about whether she and her husband were responsible for their daughter's disappearance, she said: "It cannot be considered a crime. Someone committed one, but not us."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ZW3LLnGD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

"I went through a phase of guilt for not knowing what happened to her. I blamed myself for thinking that the place was safe.
"But the certainty that we are truly responsible parents has helped me carry on.
"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."
Asked about whether she and her husband were responsible for their daughter's disappearance, she said: "It cannot be considered a crime. Someone committed one, but not us."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ZW3LLnGD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Kate laying it on the line

[Crimson Dynamo]

cant wait to see her on BGT

[anne666]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And to add if they really knew nothing about what happened to her why would rhey instantly try to trash what the dogs found? Why not say My God maybe she died here and someone moved her? Lets investigate this more?

Like everything else they haven't done as the parents of an, instantly declared, abducted by peadophiles child. Conning the police and public takes more imagination (and memory function) than they have.
Imagine their reaction if the "totally unreliable" Cadaver and Blood dog had alerted like this inside and outside of Murat's villa, his car, his car key and his clothing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4RDJLMgdWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8k2GkZ7llc
Mark Harrison, NPIA for missing persons police statement. He's mentioned in the first video
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
"A large possibility of Madeleine being dead and her body concealed somewhere in the area "

Using public funding to silence alternatives for 8 years out of 10 was another huge error.
In today's gutter press they've laid on a pity party for the ill informed faithful believers in their hopelessly enacted farce with strategically placed collection plates. More money for first class travel and five star hotels for the lot of them while they continue to do nothing to search for their supposedly missing child.
Two short lived and utterly useless Private Investigations in 10 years? Costing only a fraction of the money they've been given by the public. It would be good to have some transparency from the McCanns, friends and family's Limited Company about how the remaining millions in public donations over 10 years have been spent and what any of it had to do with searching for Maddie.

[chuff me dizzy]

"The shutter was smashed and rolled right up,the window was wide open,the curtains whooossshhhheeeddd when I opened the door " Note one curtain is lodged behind the bed, window closed, shutter undamaged and pulled down

[anne666]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

"The shutter was smashed and rolled right up,the window was wide open,the curtains whooossshhhheeeddd when I opened the door " Note one curtain is lodged behind the bed, window closed, shutter undamaged and pulled down

Yes, that was one of her two different versions in TV interviews some time later.
Her earlier police statements say something different to both. Can you imagine their horror when the PJ files were released after the public lies they'd told to all and sundry? Do you notice in each version of this fantasy she had no intention of looking in to check on three very small children? Their's was a listening service, apparently and of course the gang gave several different versions of what that consisted of in their conflicting and ever changing statements.
No curtain whooshing wind, strong enough to blow open a full length pair of curtains?? Yeah. No slamming door and she found the curtains open.
KM first police statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

So, it's perfectly clear, she's claiming the intruder opened them.
Ex-Det. Superindentent Peter MacLeod covers both parents differing versions about jemmied, smashed and whatever else shutters, curtains, which door they used to get into the apt. etc in his excellent book.
http://freepdfhosting.com/dc46088f9b.pdf

Page 8
Changes to the original story
Changing the initial version of events, especially concerning a report of a missing child, is a classic ‘red flag’ warning to police investigators to query both, or all, versions of events in great detail................
Page 11
Second change of story
This concerns the point of entry of Gerry and Kate into the apartment........
Page 20
Kate's claim that the door slammed, and when she went in
the curtains “Whooshed” open.

GM claimed to have immediately closed the shutter and window when he got back to the apartment. If they had been open add that to theirs and the groups many scene contaminations before the police arrived. He claimed he then went outside and opened and closed the shutter. The only finger prints on either side of the window were KM's and his weren't found anywhere on the shutter either. There wasn't any forensic evidence of footprints on the bed under the window which had to be stood on to enter or exit the room. There wasn't any forensic evidence of an intruder in the bedroom on the window or it's frame and shutter. Nor was their any DNA evidence of Maddie anywhere in the apartment, let alone in her bed, on her pillowcase, blanket or cuddle cat. GM flew back to the UK to get one of her pillowcase from home to provide her DNA for the police??
GM statement
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

At about 22.00 it was his wife Kate who went to check on the children. She entered the apartment by the door using the key and saw immediately that the door to the children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the blinds were raised and the curtains were drawn open

Then she runs off without checking her twins haven't been hurt by her peadophile and leaves them sleeping in the room with an open window and shutter and in the unlocked apartment again. Another example of perfectly normal behaviour under the supposed circumstances.
As for her peadophile drugging the twins and them all ignoring that fact all night, that too beggars belief.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do any of you lot have any examples of a similar situation, where "murderers" have kept them selves in the public eye for 10 years and have subsequently being found guilty?

[Vanessa]

There are a lot of things that don't make sense in this case. I don't believe for a second the McCanns murdered their daughter on purpose. I think it was an accident that they covered up. All evidence point at Maddie sadly dying in that flat on that sunday. I wish things were different, but i don't hold much hope.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do any of you lot have any examples of a similar situation, where "murderers" have kept them selves in the public eye for 10 years and have subsequently being found guilty?

Do you have an example of any other missing child case that has been in the public eye for 10 years and generated literally millions of pounds, and gained massive political interest?

We all know that the McCann case is unique and strange no matter which way you slice it. I'm not sure what you're trying to illustrate here.