[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

In your head maybe...sorry marsh but i found annieks post more helpfull in understanding the matter so quoted her instead of you

Yet felt the need to bring my name up. Your defence has more leaks than a sponge.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

I shall leave now as i will be the one sitting staring at the you are banned screen...take your hate elsewhere though, i dont need it.

I hope you don't resort to this childish nonsense when people disagree with you in real life. It won't get you anywhere.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Yet felt the need to bring my name up. Your defence has more leaks than a sponge.

Cause i was sidelined by anniek you idiot but was still wanting to carry on our duscussion..jesus christ..**** me off.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

sorry marsh but i found annieks post more helpfull in understanding the matter so quoted her instead of you again as it wasnt going anywhere

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

but was still wanting to carry on our duscussion

It's best for you to understand your own intentions before posting as you're now contradicting yourself.

But I'm the "idiot". Clearly.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

It's best for you to understand your own intentions before posting as you're now contradicting yourself.

But I'm the "idiot". Clearly.

Discussions take all twists and turns..our bit wasnt going anywhere, so i thought you might want in on what annie said...you may be paranoid?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As we've already said, the study you linked to had a fatal flaw that you haven't really responded to. Sure, if people play enough games they become desensitised to violence WITHIN games but that doesn't mean they become desensitised to REAL violence or become more prone to committing it either.

Like I said in the examples before, if you watch a sad film enough times, it won't affect you the way it did when you first watched it, it doesn't mean that you won't be emotionally affected if you were to suffer a similar emotional event in real life as the characters in the said film.

It's been over twenty years since these kinds of studies have taken place and that's probably not counting the studies that would have happened in the 80's and such when Mary Whitehouse got up on a soapbox and wanted to ban whatever upset her. If there was any real proof, it would have been discovered by now.

Don't try to make out people are insulting you because you are losing the argument, you are reaching with these accusations and it's obvious to everyone.

It IS my right to tell you you are wrong because that's my ****ing opinion. I don't care if you can't accept that, it doesn't change the fact that I think you're wrong and all you are doing with your accusations is exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

And this theory is evidence based...Where is it then?

Are you suggesting we should take evidence from the 80s to debunk my theory, what was in the study donkey kong?... Modern games are a tad more realistic, and as such they affect people more, like these the characters have depth... personality, character they are relatable on an emotional level.... Why is it so hard to reason that they could affect how we think or feel, especially if playing as a child? Games have age appropriate content, why if they can't affect us?

I'm not losing the argument, my argument hasn't changed.. it's exactly the same, you've completely misinterpreted my comments to suggest I was stating games made people violent... I never said that.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion as I've stated earlier whatever you opinions are you are welcome to them I'm not going to attempt to suggest you're wrong...Though quite why you feel you can so rudely slight my opinion I don't know :/

I get it you think 'm wrong... Let it be known I don't care you think that... have the grace to let me revel in my wrongness should I so wish!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

Discussions take all twists and turns..our bit wasnt going anywhere, so i thought you might want in on what annie said...you may be paranoid?

Our discussion wasn't going anywhere but you apparently wanted to "continue" it. Ok.

Yeah, all the swearing and tantrum throwing is my paranoia.

Maybe you spend too much time checking the ban list to stare at my name.

Have a lovely evening.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, I refer to my Loch Ness monster argument.

I've not insulted you so drop the victim act and accept the fact that people can have their opinions on YOUR opinions because that's how discussions works.

You made a absolute statement that is ultimately unfounded despite many studies since the early 90's to try to determine whether games can make people more violent. Science has not been able to find a link in that long, it's safe to say that it does not exist.

You can make your statements and I (and anyone else) are perfectly entitled to tell you that you are wrong and point out why.

You always insult and then always play the victim by claiming others are playing the victim.

You take absolutely no responsibility for your own actions and always try and turn it around on to the people you constantly insult.

You are on a public website - you must either think everyone is blind or so stupid that a few words from you stating everyone else is playing the victim card will get you off the hook. You are not kidding anyone, only yourself.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You always insult and then always play the victim by claiming others are playing the victim.

You take absolutely no responsibility for your own actions and always try and turn it around on to the people you constantly insult.

You are on a public website - you must either think everyone is blind or so stupid that a few words from you stating everyone else is playing the victim card will get you off the hook. You are not kidding anyone, only yourself.

So you have nothing of interest to add to the topic, okay.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

And this theory is evidence based...Where is it then?

Are you suggesting we should take evidence from the 80s to debunk my theory, what was in the study donkey kong?... Modern games are a tad more realistic, and as such they affect people more, like these the characters have depth... personality, character they are relatable on an emotional level.... Why is it so hard to reason that they could affect how we think or feel, especially if playing as a child? Games have age appropriate content, why if they can't affect us?

I'm not losing the argument, my argument hasn't changed.. it's exactly the same, you've completely misinterpreted my comments to suggest I was stating games made people violent... I never said that.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion as I've stated earlier whatever you opinions are you are welcome to them I'm not going to attempt to suggest you're wrong...Though quite why you feel you can so rudely slight my opinion I don't know :/

I get it you think 'm wrong... Let it be known I don't care you think that... have the grace to let me revel in my wrongness should I so wish!

It's based on all the studies that have not been able to provide a link between violence in video games and violence in real life and it's just common sense really.

I see you misunderstood my point about the 80's, try reading a post a few more times before responding to make sure you understand. The reason why I brought up the 80's because there was people with the exact same thoughts towards 'video nasties' that believed they could desensitise children to violence or make them more violent in turn. No evidence backed them up then and no evidence backs up this crusade against video games now. Not being affected by violence that's not real does not mean that you won't be affected by actual violence.

Games are age restricted for the same reasons that TV shows and films are, that should be common sense. The BBFC does not classify games differently to films, the same standards still remain. Games, like films and TV shows can affect us on an emotional level, there's a number of games that will make you weep like you've just watched tearjerker, games are more effective at making us feel fear than horror films since you can't look away but all these feelings don't translate to real life. You don't go through life having emotional breakdowns over the fact that Mufasa died in The Lion King. The emotions a person feels whilst watching a film or playing a game remains tied to that.

No, you keep making out that I'm saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, you are and I'm entitled to dissect that opinion however you please like you can to mine.

I have never been restricted from playing or watching whatever films or games I want to watch. Watching and playing violent films and video games from a young age has never affected me because I knew it was not real and I could differentiate between what's acceptable in a game and what's acceptable in reality. Again, not being affected by simulated violence is not the same as not being affected by actual violence.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's based on all the studies that have not been able to provide a link between violence in video games and violence in real life and it's just common sense really.

I see you misunderstood my point about the 80's, try reading a post a few more times before responding to make sure you understand. The reason why I brought up the 80's because there was people with the exact same thoughts towards 'video nasties' that believed they could desensitise children to violence or make them more violent in turn. No evidence backed them up then and no evidence backs up this crusade against video games now. Not being affected by violence that's not real does not mean that you won't be affected by actual violence.

Games are age restricted for the same reasons that TV shows and films are, that should be common sense. The BBFC does not classify games differently to films, the same standards still remain. Games, like films and TV shows can affect us on an emotional level, there's a number of games that will make you weep like you've just watched tearjerker, games are more effective at making us feel fear than horror films since you can't look away but all these feelings don't translate to real life. You don't go through life having emotional breakdowns over the fact that Mufasa died in The Lion King. The emotions a person feels whilst watching a film or playing a game remains tied to that.

No, you keep making out that I'm saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, you are and I'm entitled to dissect that opinion however you please like you can to mine.

I have never been restricted from playing or watching whatever films or games I want to watch. Watching and playing violent films and video games from a young age has never affected me because I knew it was not real and I could differentiate between what's acceptable in a game and what's acceptable in reality. Again, not being affected by simulated violence is not the same as not being affected by actual violence.

You can't excuse your lack of evidence as 'it's just common sense' :/

Again you're alluding to the link between violence in games and real life violence ... for the third time that was not, and is not my issue, instead of mocking me for your misunderstanding make sure you are aware of what my point is in relation to the topic.

I would say the parts in bold reinforce my argument more than yours too, for the reasons I stated earlier, there will be factors that could influence psychological impact the game quality for certain that won't have been an issue in the 80s. The age of the gamer is another factor, as with films there's always going to be younger people playing 18 games, we can't be certain they won't have been affected.

You can dissect my opinion if you like, you're not in a position to say it's wrong however as I'm not stating it as fact, all you have to counter is your opinion which also is not fact.

[user104658]

The thing is though... They do have age ratings, just like movies, and they have them for a reason. If the question you're asking is; "Is mature content harmful to young developing minds?" then the answer is "probably, yes" but that's largely irrelevant isn't it? The fact that people under 18 access mature content is NOT a reason for mature content to cease to exist.

Also, that said, I would imagine that mature content is more harmful to an 18 year old who has no context for it than for a 15 year old who has received good parental guidance in understanding adult themes.

But again that's really a totally separate discussion.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You can't excuse your lack of evidence as 'it's just common sense' :/

Again you're alluding to the link between violence in games and real life violence ... for the third time that was not, and is not my issue, instead of mocking me for your misunderstanding make sure you are aware of what my point is in relation to the topic.

I would say the parts in bold reinforce my argument more than yours too, for the reasons I stated earlier, there will be factors that could influence psychological impact the game quality for certain that won't have been an issue in the 80s. The age of the gamer is another factor, as with films there's always going to be younger people playing 18 games, we can't be certain they won't have been affected.

You can dissect my opinion if you like, you're not in a position to say it's wrong however as I'm not stating it as fact, all you have to counter is your opinion which also is not fact.

Why do you keep ignoring the majority of my posts and making out that my only argument is common sense? Also I know exactly what your argument is, I've commented on it enough just for you to keep ignoring it and focusing on bits you can misrepresent.

I haven't got a lack of evidence, I am the ****ing evidence, years of research that has yet to prove that games can have a detrimental effect on people's real life empathy or reactions to violence IS my evidence too. You are literally clinging to one study that stated an obvious fact, people become desensitised to VIRTUAL violence when they see a lot of it but no study has been able to prove there's a similar desensitivity to actual violence because of exposure to similated violence. I've explained why it's the case for films as well multiple times but you chose to ignore it since you can't argue against it.

Violent video games are not a new fangled thing, they have been around for over twenty years, if they have a negative effect on children we would have seen results or proof of that but we haven't.

Well you DID state an opinion like it was a fact.

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

I've never stated my opinions like they are facts obviously because I've repeated my mantra on opinions repeatedly in this thread, keep up Kizzy.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Why do you keep ignoring the majority of my posts and making out that my only argument is common sense? Also I know exactly what your argument is, I've commented on it enough just for you to keep ignoring it and focusing on bits you can misrepresent.

I haven't got a lack of evidence, I am the ****ing evidence, years of research that has yet to prove that games can have a detrimental effect on people's real life empathy or reactions to violence IS my evidence too. You are literally clinging to one study that stated an obvious fact, people become desensitised to VIRTUAL violence when they see a lot of it but no study has been able to prove there's a similar desensitivity to actual violence because of exposure to similated violence. I've explained why it's the case for films as well multiple times but you chose to ignore it since you can't argue against it.

Violent video games are not a new fangled thing, they have been around for over twenty years, if they have a negative effect on children we would have seen results or proof of that but we haven't.

Well you DID state an opinion like it was a fact.



I've never stated my opinions like they are facts obviously because I've repeated my mantra on opinions repeatedly in this thread, keep up Kizzy.

Not a very wise decision to present yourself and your constant aggressive posts as evidence of non-aggression. I think if anything you simply prove the case against not the case for.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Why do you keep ignoring the majority of my posts and making out that my only argument is common sense? Also I know exactly what your argument is, I've commented on it enough just for you to keep ignoring it and focusing on bits you can misrepresent.

I haven't got a lack of evidence, I am the ****ing evidence, years of research that has yet to prove that games can have a detrimental effect on people's real life empathy or reactions to violence IS my evidence too. You are literally clinging to one study that stated an obvious fact, people become desensitised to VIRTUAL violence when they see a lot of it but no study has been able to prove there's a similar desensitivity to actual violence because of exposure to similated violence. I've explained why it's the case for films as well multiple times but you chose to ignore it since you can't argue against it.

Violent video games are not a new fangled thing, they have been around for over twenty years, if they have a negative effect on children we would have seen results or proof of that but we haven't.

Well you DID state an opinion like it was a fact.



I've never stated my opinions like they are facts obviously because I've repeated my mantra on opinions repeatedly in this thread, keep up Kizzy.

I'm bored of you now to be honest, you you can't ****ing have a study of one ****ing person for ****s sake!

For clarification I feel games now have the capacity to cause desensitisation and normalise violence... if you don't agree let it be said I just don't give a flying ****, whatever your opinion is I don't give a rats arse! I did not state my opinion as fact... ****ing fact!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I'm bored of you now to be honest, you you can't ****ing have a study of one ****ing person for ****s sake!

For clarification I feel games now have the capacity to cause desensitisation and normalise violence... if you don't agree let it be said I just don't give a flying ****, whatever your opinion is I don't give a rats arse! I did not state my opinion as fact... ****ing fact!

If you read my posts properly, you would know I was referring to the fact that, like so many other people, I could watch and play what I wanted from an early age and that it didn't normalise real life violence for me since, again like so many other people, I can tell the difference between reality and a video game. That's my argument for why I am proof that video games doesn't normalise violence because it certainly did not in my case or in the cases of many others on this site who had similar unrestricted access to mature content as a child.

As I've said a thousand times (which you will ignore like you have this entire thread, your study that you keep mentioning holds no merit on the discussion of violence desensitivity in real life since it only proved what should have been obvious to everyone, that playing violent video games will desensitise you to VIRTUAL violence. That study has no impact on the discussion of video games normalising violence or desensitising people to ACTUAL violence.

I will continue to comment on yours' and other opinions just like you are free to do so to me because that's my ****ing right to do and you've just got to accept that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you read my posts properly, you would know I was referring to the fact that, like so many other people, I could watch and play what I wanted from an early age and that it didn't normalise real life violence for me since, again like so many other people, I can tell the difference between reality and a video game. That's my argument for why I am proof that video games doesn't normalise violence because it certainly did not in my case or in the cases of many others on this site who had similar unrestricted access to mature content as a child.

As I've said a thousand times (which you will ignore like you have this entire thread, your study that you keep mentioning holds no merit on the discussion of violence desensitivity in real life since it only proved what should have been obvious to everyone, that playing violent video games will desensitise you to VIRTUAL violence. That study has no impact on the discussion of video games normalising violence or desensitising people to ACTUAL violence.

I will continue to comment on yours' and other opinions just like you are free to do so to me because that's my ****ing right to do and you've just got to accept that.

Go for it ... Fill your boots.

My opinions remains the same.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Go for it ... Fill your boots.

My opinions remains the same.

Luckily, your opinion also remains uninformed and irrelevant.

[Kazanne]

Well this convo is interesting,of course kids are influenced by games and media , whoever says they are not just needs to convince themselves of that because they play these games , and they really want to keep playing them, my lads start imitating Ninja Turtles ,Power Rangers etc,so if they are not influenced why would they want to re-enact it,plus the times I have had to cover my ears when my nephew is playing a game upstairs and he is not an angry young man , but as soon as he gets that control in his hands he is a different lad, I am not saying the games make kids violent but they certainly don't make them calm and peaceful either ,many a time I have had to calm my boys down after playing things they have seen on TV or seen someone playing, so to say it doesn't affect them is stupid and probably said by people who dont even have kids.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker Sweet

Well this convo is interesting,of course kids are influenced by games and media , whoever says they are not just needs to convince themselves of that because they play these games , and they really want to keep playing them, my lads start imitating Ninja Turtles ,Power Rangers etc,so if they are not influenced why would they want to re-enact it,plus the times I have had to cover my ears when my nephew is playing a game upstairs and he is not an angry young man , but as soon as he gets that control in his hands he is a different lad, I am not saying the games make kids violent but they certainly don't make them calm and peaceful either ,many a time I have had to calm my boys down after playing things they have seen on TV or seen someone playing, so to say it doesn't affect them is stupid and probably said by people who dont even have kids.

Like I said, adult rated games featuring violence may well affect kids but so what? They're not supposed to be playing them, and that's not what this thread is even about. It's about a game with adult themes, designed for and marketed at adults, and whether or not certain content should be "banned" because it might reduce empathy. Whether or not someone's son / nephew / neighbours cousins TV repair man's clients kid gets mad playing Call of Duty (which incidentally, is not rated for children in the first place) is totally irrelevant.

It also has nothing to do with gaming and everything to do with the fact that it's competitive multiplayer gaming. It's not the games that are making these kids fume and throw things at walls - its the fact that they have LOST at a game AGAINST ANOTHER HUMAN.

If you want me to believe that those same kids are perfectly calm when they lose a game of football up the park, or lose a board game against their family... I'll have to ask you to pull the other one. They're lobbing their footie boots across the changing room and lobbing the monopoly board off the table just the same as the game pad.

[user104658]

There's also a big difference between being culturally influenced by media and becoming physically violent :/

[Beso]

http://www.educationalneuroscience.o...-more-violent/

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker Sweet

Well this convo is interesting,of course kids are influenced by games and media , whoever says they are not just needs to convince themselves of that because they play these games , and they really want to keep playing them, my lads start imitating Ninja Turtles ,Power Rangers etc,so if they are not influenced why would they want to re-enact it,plus the times I have had to cover my ears when my nephew is playing a game upstairs and he is not an angry young man , but as soon as he gets that control in his hands he is a different lad, I am not saying the games make kids violent but they certainly don't make them calm and peaceful either ,many a time I have had to calm my boys down after playing things they have seen on TV or seen someone playing, so to say it doesn't affect them is stupid and probably said by people who dont even have kids.

Completely agree Kaz - I have had the same experience with my son. I also agree that a lot of this is about justification from people who spend a lot of time playing the games themselvess, some of whom allow their underage kids to play them too.

It’s obvious that violence in a lot of the games does have a substantial effect on some and increase aggression in many otherwise quite passive people - so what do they do to those already aggressive by nature?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

http://www.educationalneuroscience.o...-more-violent/

1) Again, what does the premise of this thread have to do with children playing games that are not age appropriate?

2) Your own link has actually advocated FOR the game used in the example;

"The good news is that pro-social games, where the main aim is to help someone else, have a positive effect on behaviour[xiv]*to the same extent that violent games have a negative effect."


The aim in the game that Esther has an issue with, and that this thread is about, is to HELP the victim of violence. Therefore - according to your link - this will have a positive effect on the player. Right?

[Marsh.]

Except kids know the difference between playing power rangers and play fighting and shooting someone dead.