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Maru · 06-02-2018, 04:57 AM

My addition to Vicky & Ammi's wonderful selection(s).

Quote:

when a man can
take a stand
and wash his hands
of his scams
and watch his woman
stand unafraid
aid her in her fight
to get paid
help her get her
medicines made
let her step on out
of the shade

and i will call him
super solid
and i will call him
super solid

it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strongman
yes it does
it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strongman
yes it does

if love sex
is the soul vexed
is the earth next
we need respect

can we love outside
of the clan
where's the sister
in brotherman
back to back
divided we stand
can we put some love
in the land?
i will call him supersolid
i will call him supersolid

it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strong man
yes it does
it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strongman
yes it does

conquering, stealing
wheeling and dealing
tell me is this planet
healing?
conquering, stealing
wheeling and dealing
tell me is this planet
healing?
when a man knows
where he came from
he can't tell me
i am shameful
and i will call him
supersolid

i will call him
supersolid
it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strongman
to stand by a strong woman
it takes a strongman
it takes a strongman

he can stop trying
to get even
he will know he's
here for a reason
to stand beside
his woman in peace
she's got the way
to release him

Ammi · 06-02-2018, 05:02 AM

..that’s the thing though, Vicky...in thinking about and discussing feminism so much as many of us have in the last few days...my thoughts are of one poem and yours are of another...and they’re both so contrasting in ‘vibe’...one a celebration, and the other obviously much less celebrating...which brings me and my thoughts right back to what TS has been saying and how he feels...of who sets the agenda of feminism, then...because females as a collective and the thoughts and opinions of females etc, stray off in different directions of what they feel will progress to a common goal of equality...obviously because within being women, we’re all individuals as well...and if men have been discounted to more being a supporting role, then surely, that would discount and deprive of, any potential or possible ‘lead male character parts’, that may make a big and positive difference in the progress of......?...

...anyways, obviously I hate to be always saying...yeah, I agree with you TS..because obviously he’s a man and knows nothing..but yeah, I do find I lean his way so much with this and the best progression would feel that ‘regardless of gender’ and not to exclude...it’s more about individuals and including all in any capacity of their strengths, to hope for the progression we all hope for and are all in the same page with, as it were...

Maru · 06-02-2018, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that’s the thing though, Vicky...in thinking about and discussing feminism so much as many of us have in the last few days...my thoughts are of one poem and yours are of another...and they’re both so contrasting in ‘vibe’...one a celebration, and the other obviously much less celebrating...which brings me and my thoughts right back to what TS has been saying and how he feels...of who sets the agenda of feminism, then...because females as a collective and the thoughts and opinions of females etc, stray off in different directions of what they feel will progress to a common goal of equality...obviously because within being women, we’re all individuals as well...and if men have been discounted to more being a supporting role, then surely, that would discount and deprive of, any potential or possible ‘lead male character parts’, that may make a big and positive difference in the progress of......?...

...anyways, obviously I hate to be always saying...yeah, I agree with you TS..because obviously he’s a man and knows nothing..but yeah, I do find I lean his way so much with this and the best progression would feel that ‘regardless of gender’ and not to exclude...it’s more about individuals and including all in any capacity of their strengths, to hope for the progression we all hope for and are all in the same page with, as it were...

This is a self-amusing aside, but I was actually going to post the Strongman video on TS' wall a week or so back. And then forgot. Starting to think my subconscious knows some things I don't when I choose songs for users on here. Though I think it might've had something to do with a superman avatar he had a few years back(?)... my creative brain tends to remember some things my logical brain sometimes forgets to recall

And no, he don't know squat, that's why for me he'll always be the Dale Gribble of TiBB

I can just see him looking up everything we say and putting it all together... getting it all figured out...

Vicky. · 06-02-2018, 05:18 AM

I don't really think there is an agenda as such tbh. Many people do feminism in their own way. Have their own priorities and such. My point about women setting the agenda..was not really saying 'oh all women should agree on this and do this' but more..women should lead the discussion. Like, I don't appreciate men telling me something I experienced was not sexist, unless it was an incident actually involving them or they were there to see it and give their opinion. If that makes sense? It just seems a lot of men are very much like 'oh feminism is not needed in the West, you all just want to be better than us, go focus on female genital mutliation in third world cointries instead' and such which is not helpful at all, to anyone or anything. I'm not sure I am explaining myself properly here as I have not slept yet..but as usual it makes sense in my head, just probably does not come out right.

What feminism means to me..as I said earlier

Quote:

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

So..anything goes, as long as the desired result is the same, in short

Ammi · 06-02-2018, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't really think there is an agenda as such tbh. Many people do feminism in their own way. Have their own priorities and such. My point about women setting the agenda..was not really saying 'oh all women should agree on this and do this' but more..women should lead the discussion. Like, I don't appreciate men telling me something I experienced was not sexist, unless it was an incident actually involving them or they were there to see it and give their opinion. If that makes sense? It just seems a lot of men are very much like 'oh feminism is not needed in the West, you all just want to be better than us, go focus on female genital mutliation in third world cointries instead' and such which is not helpful at all, to anyone or anything. I'm not sure I am explaining myself properly here as I have not slept yet..but as usual it makes sense in my head, just probably does not come out right.

What feminism means to me..as I said earlier

So..anything goes, as long as the desired result is the same, in short

...no you make perfect sense and explain well...and I think we’re all on the same page, it’s just more ...how does that page go forward and progress, as it were...because it’s feminism and striving for equality for females and also highlighting some of the ‘wrongs’ females endure, just through being the gender they are...females will always be and ‘play the bigger part’ because it’s about many things that they personally experience, which men don’t and haven’t because of their gender...and obviously that in itself, will mean that females will often be the ‘leads’ in discussion etc because they have personal experiences and insights that a man could never have...but then, there would be times for me also, when the lead of a man in a discussion, could be very progressive, also...so then the danger there is that feminism could ‘alienate’, some potential great allies...and could potentially alienate through gender alone, which is basically what we women and we feminists are giving our experiences of.../..of the discrimination and oppressions felt by us because of only our very gender...

...the men that would say...oh, stop complaining and go and look at female gender mutilation etc...well, they aren’t the men that feminism would ever want to have as an ally or ‘lead’ voice though...so yeah, we’ll just go ahead and not give their voices any part in the discussions....because those voices are obviously not recognising ‘feminism’...

...anyways, I’m probably the one who isn’t explaining well because I’m rushing, so I’ll just hope something makes some sense, somehow...

Maru · 06-02-2018, 05:54 AM

I haven't done much research on this, because it's sorta a newer revelation. There does seem to be a big correlation between some of the hard-left agendas out there and feminists in academia. For example, much of the stuff Vicky you take issue with, for example, the gender rules and pronouns, etc... a lot of the "scientific" and academic backing came from Women's Studies folk.

I didn't know this, but when I took a class in college that was supposed to be history (liberal arts), ended up being a weed-picking and artwork made of trash creating course... my essays were actual trash, but as long as I kept a certain tone (pro-hippy, super lefty stuff), then I was guaranteed a very easy A... one of my essays was titled "Trees are Good For The Environment"... that was the first time I was ever in school that felt highly influenced by some sort of political agenda and I was pissed I paid $400 to participate in a fraud (but it was required). This was years ago, but I looked up the professor recently and it was a Women's Studies professor... It wouldn't occur to me to take a Women's Studies course on my own, so I really had no idea the kind of agendas that come from them.

There was another class I signed up for, which was Asian history... it ended up being a philosophy course (???), as it had a ton of philosophy majors in it, and the lady was talking about how she was going to force us to think real hard, and answer all these super personal and penetrating questions to get into the base of our skulls. Except this would all be exposed and we would be meant to answer as honest as possible through group pressure. I dropped it right away as thankfully that was not required (kinda sad to lose the opportunity to learn the history tho...) and the last thing I needed was some nut-job digging into my business with the support of peer pressure in order to root out our "inner truths". No telling what the purpose was, as she didn't make this clear--it was just supposed to be a trust your professor sorta thing. It didn't have anything to do with Asian history, and I did not like the sound of it... at all...

So I'm a little cautious about certain rhetoric when it comes to mainstream opinions, because I'm not sure if my backing is what is allowing some of this to seep into the mainstream.

It is good that the movement(s) get criticism from men, because let's be honest, they're good bullsh*t detectors too. They also help to pump the brakes on some of the crazier sh*t that is getting passed for feminist theory these days. I guess I just think that resistance is balancing. It's not like men--well, non-trans men--can hijack a woman's movement. We would have to agree collectively, and I think there are some people who are sneaking things through as if it is some collective agreement... when really, it's not all women agreeing or a set agenda as you say... but that's what is being portrayed in the media, that we all agreeing to champion things that most women have no real clue about.

I did say to my husband that I thought after Trump's win, that women would be leading the way forward in terms of keeping up the pressure, but I think that that some is also needed at times the other direction to keep things from getting out o hand. In other words, Yin-Yang.

Vicky. · 06-02-2018, 06:08 AM

Apparently 'womens studies' is now 'gender studies'..so my sister informs me. Not sure if thats just her uni or not but thats seriously depressing. Not gender as in sex (as some would read that as male and female studies, which would be more 'equal') but gender as in...a mythical soul...an essence inside us apparently. So basically..a religion. Womens studies has been replaced by another R.E.

Ammi we are totally on the same page, but writing essays about that same page in different ways

thesheriff443 · 06-02-2018, 06:34 AM

A true saying of mine in the company of women is, us girls got to stick together.

Ashley. · 06-02-2018, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Some members I get so wrong, I read them as very male and they turn out to be women. Others I read as female, and it turns out they are male. And some, I read as male, they claim they are female for ages and ages, and then it turns out they were male all along

I think avatars with newer members does this too. Once you get to know someone a bit more it seems more obvious...obviously. But I do tend to assume that those with male avatars are male and such, even when the avatars are of BB contestants.

I do this, too... Niamh will always be Conor McGregor, in my eyes.

Niamh. · 06-02-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A slightly more depressing one, about the erosion of the very word woman...

Spoiler:

Sorry, I read it like an hour ago and your poem reminded me of it so I had to share

It's really well written and the total opposite to Ammis

Niamh. · 06-02-2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley.

I do this, too... Niamh will always be Conor McGregor, in my eyes.

I'm Eddie Vedder these days Ashley

user104658 · 06-02-2018, 10:00 AM

Supersolid

Alf · 06-02-2018, 01:40 PM

Youtube video

Livia · 06-02-2018, 02:22 PM

You're not helping this debate, Alf.

Niamh. · 06-02-2018, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

You're not helping this debate, Alf.

Some how I don't think he's trying to

Livia · 06-02-2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Some how I don't think he's trying to

No I'm sure... but bloody hell... I could take about twenty seconds of the incoherent rantings of some random Scottish bloke. If I wanted the engage in that I'd PM Leather Trumpet.

Niamh. · 06-02-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

No I'm sure... but bloody hell... I could take about twenty seconds of the incoherent rantings of some random Scottish bloke. If I wanted the engage in that I'd PM Leather Trumpet.