[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah same here alright. And the whole reason there is such a massive "us and them" divide and why people might come across as generalising is because they don't seem to have to follow the same rules as everyone else in the country. If I had a horse and treated him the way they do with theirs, I'd be arrested and probably never allowed keep one again, they get to keep theirs on other peoples land and not feed them etc

I remember when I worked for an MP, if ever the traveller community had an issue, they'd turn up in a large crowd, with a copy of the Human Rights Act under their arm. It's a shame that since the act was introduced it's been mostly used to help scumbags get their own way.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Do you think hitler had the right idea which was to murder them all like he did with the Jews.

Good and bad in every culture.

Of course there are good and bad in every culture - where did anyone say differently - but this family are a pretty unpleasant bunch known for not only targeting and stealing from the elderly whilst armed they are now attempting to intimidate the elderly VICTIM of a member of their family for defending himself.

It seems it doesn’t matter how badly people behave there will always be someone to defend them - that is what I find sad.

[Amy Jade]

Some travellers around here robbed a charity shop too, Livia. Claire House, a charity for dying children.

They were seen parked behind by people in the pubs across the road and they raised the police, the police came over an hour later. Some people from the pub told them who it was and the woman who ran the charity shop had CCTV of them inside the shop but nothing came of it, don't even think it was investigated.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Some travellers around here robbed a charity shop too, Livia. Claire House, a charity for dying children.

They were seen parked behind by people in the pubs across the road and they raised the police, the police came over an hour later. Some people from the pub told them who it was and the woman who ran the charity shop had CCTV of them inside the shop but nothing came of it, don't even think it was investigated.

They all lie for each other. And you know, I'm sure none of us want to tell anyone else how to live their lives, but cruelty to animals, thieving and all the other things they're famous for is totally unacceptable. If they cleaned up their act people wouldn't have such a huge problem with them. And really, stealing from a charity for dying children really is as low as you can go. And then they make a big thing about going to church. Incredible.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

around where I work the problem is how they treat their horses, they dump them on other peoples/companies land without adequate food or security, they end up walking around the roads alot of times. A friend of mine and her husband have started a group that goes round feeding them and arranging vet care for them. Sulky racing is a big problem too, just down the road from where I work last week one of the horses collapsed on the road while they were in a sulky, they just unclipped him from it and left him there on the road to die. It's heart breaking

OMG Niamh ,that is so sad,Can I ask what is Sulky racing ? it sounds awful,I think most of us know travellers that have been rude,and filthy,not all of them but a lot don't care about anyone other than themselves.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It seems it doesn’t matter how badly people behave there will always be someone to defend them - that is what I find sad.

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

OMG Niamh ,that is so sad,Can I ask what is Sulky racing ? it sounds awful,I think most of us know travellers that have been rude,and filthy,not all of them but a lot don't care about anyone other than themselves.

Here's a video of a race on a really busy road, very close to where I work

Youtube video

[Kazanne]

Oh Jeez,those poor horses must be so scared,Is it against the law there? Looks pretty dangerous for other drivers too

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Oh Jeez,those poor horses must be so scared,Is it against the law there? Looks pretty dangerous for other drivers too

This is what I'm saying, if I went out on one of them, I'd absolutely get arrested and charged........

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

Well there is if you're interested in such things. Again, I'm not talking about making excuses for anyone so the outrage is misplaced.

I'm interested in the childhood psychology of serial killers but it doesn't mean I want them released .

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Livia

They weren't being fairly spiritual when they robbed my garage. Or when they left a site about a mile from me covered in disgusting crap, bags of dirty nappies, builders rubbish... and then there are those who are nicking people's pet dogs out of their front gardens to use as bait dogs. A BIG problem where I live. Sometimes they just can't be allowed to have their own way.

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

You are free to think that i would act differently, but to be honest i wouldnt..

I wouldnt go round pointing fingers with no proof as i know how much that can go horribly wrong with innocent people being killed due to one mans word.


And i would probably invited to 2 women indoors to discuss what to do going forward....believe it if you want..or not...

[Kazanne]

people always seem to want to blame anyone but the criminal,I just don't get it and no good slapping these people on the wrist this is why we are so fcuked up now,human rights abused and used to commit crimes and plead their human right.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

They, they, they......


Now that sounds like you have just lumped all travellers in the scumbag box without even bothering to find out about individuals...which is my point exactly.


These 2 women are being judged on a dead scumbags actions and i find that a bit off tbh.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by parmnion

They, they, they......


Now that sounds like you have just lumped all travellers in the scumbag box without even bothering to find out about individuals...which is my point exactly.


These 2 women are being judged on a dead scumbags actions and i find that a bit off tbh.

Plenty of travelers don't do those things, they're not a problem and they're a separate "they".

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes but whos to say the grieving family have anything to do with the death threats?

From my own experiences i am very aware of internet and life trolls latching onto any news story thats been so public so they can then be the sick and twisted individuals they are by contacting people involved to harrass and upset them...

I may be wrong, and it may well be the family if the stories are true....but to just jump in and hang them before a trial saddens me as i just see it as peoples prejudice and intolerance to travellers.

..just touching on this thing Parmy said earlier in the thread...about ‘internet trolls latching on etc..’...?...I read a news report this morning...which said that some who are taking the flowers down aren’t residents or anyone associated with the older couple involved...they are people who have just read the media stories and have become ‘enraged’...so they have acted on that..that’s not really concern for the residents either, I wouldn’t say...

[thesheriff443]

Let's be real, animals children and the old are treated the worst in this so called civilised world.

[Ammi]

.. my balance of personal ‘travelling community’ stories anyway...things I’ve personally experienced..is that yeah, some pretty negative ones with no care or regard to the community etc... it some great ones as well...some great, caring traveller parents who have helped create great associations and interactions with the residents...who have themselves initiated that and been very involved with other parents and children in caring for the community together...is what I’ve also experienced with some travellers...some great people with some great values...

[Cherie]

Alot of comments on this thread would not be tolerated for other groups, there are good and bad everywhere.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

But TS, you are making excuses. You say that you can see shades of grey, well, you#'re not the only one. We're all pretty intelligent on here. Maybe you've been fortunate not to have encountered the downside of the traveller community, but I have and so have others. And every time a scumbag does something appalling there are people on the forum ready to tell everyone they're wrong and we should see the bigger picture.

If there was a positive story about travellers anywhere, I'd be glad to compare note.

[Beso]

All this not caring about the community etc...

You just have to look at all the garbage strewn up and down the countries roads..or the dog **** you have to dodge to get your morning paper....

Feet high front lawns, broken down viehicles outside folks front doors..etc etc.....

I dont think travellers are to blame for it all.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Alot of comments on this thread would not be tolerated for other groups, there are good and bad everywhere.

To be fair, Cherie, not a lot of other groups get away with what the travellers get away with. They are a law unto themselves.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Alot of comments on this thread would not be tolerated for other groups, there are good and bad everywhere.

Which other groups have gotten themselves a reputation for doing the things which make people complain about the travelers?

[jaxie]

I don't really agree that travellers as a group are relevant to this thread or in the stereotypes for them but then I don't live in a community that has had problems from them as a group and this can weight peoples opinion considerably. I don't really blame anyone for that either.

However I do think this particular family are being deliberately provocative. This is more about making a vengeful statement than genuine grieving in my opinion.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which other groups have gotten themselves a reputation for doing the things which make people complain about the travelers?

Jesus christ..pop into any housing estate and you will see all the **** left lying about by people of all nationalities, races or whatever todays box is.