[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Hi A.J.

Yes, I forgot about the way dogs are treated. THAT was addressed in one of the documentaries too.

Yes and also punching toddlers (boys) in the stomach to toughen them up to box and fist fight when they are older.

Savages.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Flowers left for innocent victims at the scene of an accident is a light-year away from flowers left for a perpetrator at his VICTIMS home.

And in the former, there can be NO doubt that the 'motive' behind leaving the flowers is Love, Sympathy and Remembrance, while, in the case of the latter, the motive behind leaving flowers is highly DUBIOUS.

In this country laying flowers at a scene where people or someone has died in an accident or murder is the normal thing.

This burglary cost him his life and yet this countries justice system let's child killers live luxury.

Bad news travels faster than good news.

[thesheriff443]

I think some forum members need to stop jumping on members because some of us don't nod our heads all at the same time.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If you mean; Why didn't the burglar USE the screwdriver on the 'old man' - HE DID. He held it to his throat but the 'old man' obviously surprised bully boy and won the grapple which ensued.

Good on him.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by arista

No a local will not stand for it.

A vigilante.

[Ammi]

...the police have intervened and made a statement...

"We would urge members of the public to respect the wishes of those who choose to place flowers and other tributes in the area.

"We would also request those placing tributes or visiting the area to behave in a responsible manner so as not to disrupt the local community."


https://news.sky.com/story/police-in...orial-11326935

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...the police have intervened and made a statement...

"We would urge members of the public to respect the wishes of those who choose to place flowers and other tributes in the area.

"We would also request those placing tributes or visiting the area to behave in a responsible manner so as not to disrupt the local community."


https://news.sky.com/story/police-in...orial-11326935

Not a satisfactory response from the police in my opinion. They should not be allowed to put the flowers there as it is innappropriate, intimidating and the fence is private property. The police need to be more forceful on this and ensure they put them somewhere else or start to make arrests for their continued harrassment.

[Amy Jade]

If I lived on that street I would be livid if I had to put up with this day in day out. The travellers constantly showing up and bringing press en mass and then a rinse and repeat with people ripping them down.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not a satisfactory response from the police in my opinion. They should not be allowed to put the flowers there as it is innappropriate, intimidating and the fence is private property. The police need to be more forceful on this and ensure they put them somewhere else or start to make arrests for their continued harrassment.

The police can't take sides, they will investigate harassment claims, like I said it's flowers not bombs they are leaving.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

In this country laying flowers at a scene where people or someone has died in an accident or murder is the normal thing.

This burglary cost him his life and yet this countries justice system let's child killers live luxury.

Bad news travels faster than good news.

As Kirk said there are definitely circumstances. Say somebody shot 5 people and then themself I would think it inappropriate to lay flowers for the shooter along with flowers for the innocent victims.

This man is no victim, he was a criminal who preyed on the vulnerable and his death occured as a result of his immoral act at an innocent persons home, his family should not be allowed to go to the house. If they were decent people they would mourn on theirown property not return to the scene where their relative had commited his crimes.

[thesheriff443]

Something to think about, kenny noye who stabbed Stephen Cameron to death on a motorway junction, before that was found not guilty for stabbing an under cover police officer to death in his back garden and claimed self defence, he was being investigated for playing a part in the brinks matt gold robbery.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

As Kirk said there are definitely circumstances. Say somebody shot 5 people and then themself I would think it inappropriate to lay flowers for the shooter along with flowers for the innocent victims.

This man is no victim, he was a criminal who preyed on the vulnerable and his death occured as a result of his immoral act at an innocent persons home, his family should not be allowed to go to the house. If they were decent people they would mourn on theirown property not return to the scene where their relative had commited his crimes.

He could be the devil himself, but it's not a crime to lay flowers, regardless of the moral rights and wrongs.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

He could be the devil himself, but it's not a crime to lay flowers, regardless of the moral rights and wrongs.

I agree that it is NOT a crime to lay flowers but it is NOT the act of laying the flowers that are being criticised, it is the LOCATION of where they are laying the flowers AND the glaringly dubious MOTIVATION behind that CHOICE of location.

If those laying the flowers are doing so only out a NEED to pay respects to the dead burglar, then - as A.J and others have said - there are better locations where they could do so, but to choose THAT specific location - in light of the threats made to the victims of the burglary and the fact that this INNOCENT old couple were FORCED from their home by those threats - then it is OBVIOUSLY wrong on all counts and raises suspicion as to the GENUINE motivations of those leaving flowers.

RESPECTING the dead is OVERSHADOWED when such an act DISRESPECTS the living.

[parmnion]

So lifes only fantastic under the tories, everyone managing fine..loads of opportunities for our youth..blah blah blah.....

Who mentioned travellers ..britains **** again...yawn.

[Cherie]

At least the thread has returned to talking about the particular story, rather than just an opportunity to traveller bash so that is something at least.

[Ammi]

...it would be interesting to know if the couple themselves would want the flowers taken down by residents or if they would want the grief to be allowed in this way...

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

In this country laying flowers at a scene where people or someone has died in an accident or murder is the normal thing.

This burglary cost him his life and yet this countries justice system let's child killers live luxury.

Bad news travels faster than good news.

The flowers weren't laid where he died. According to media reports he died a few streets away. They weren't laid on the pavement or kerb, they were attached to someones fence.

And seriously? Who went into a pensioners home in the dark with a screwdriver? What do you think he was planning to do with that screwdriver in the dark a bit of D I Y? He planned to use it as a weapon. He came unstuck and it was entirely his own fault.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it would be interesting to know if the couple themselves would want the flowers taken down by residents or if they would want the grief to be allowed in this way...

Since they can't go back to their home due to threats and intimidation, what do you think? It's not an act of grief, its clearly an act of intimidation.

I would imagine that both the pensioner and his wife are devastated by events. He's killed someone, was forced to, do they really need all this drama as well?

If someone in my family had the habit of going armed into elderly peoples homes to rob them I'd be ashamed, and appalled, not floating around with tributes to 'the boy' of 39. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to exclude them from all moral norms.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Since they can't go back to their home due to threats and intimidation, what do you think? It's not an act of grief, its clearly an act of intimidation.

I would imagine that both the pensioner and his wife are devastated by events. He's killed someone, was forced to, do they really need all this drama as well?

If someone in my family had the habit of going armed into elderly peoples homes to rob them I'd be ashamed, and appalled, not floating around with tributes to 'the boy' of 39. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to exclude them from all moral norms.

..that’s what I’ve been thinking exactly, Jaxie...what would I think , how would I feel about ‘this drama as well’ with how devastated their lives are atm...in how it’s escalating atm....which won’t lead to them feeling secure and safe in returning to their home, surely...(..if they intend to return obviously..)....taking another person’s life, well I can’t even imagine how that would feel, no matter what the circumstances...but to respect the couple as well as I’m sure residents have in their feelings and emotions...wouldn’t it be to not participate in escalating so their neighbours can return to their home as soon as possible...for all ‘healing’ to begin for all....

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that’s what I’ve been thinking exactly, Jaxie...what would I think , how would I feel about ‘this drama as well’ with how devastated their lives are atm...in how it’s escalating atm....which won’t lead to them feeling secure and safe in returning to their home, surely...(..if they intend to return obviously..)....taking another person’s life, well I can’t even imagine how that would feel, no matter what the circumstances...but to respect the couple as well as I’m sure residents have in their feelings and emotions...wouldn’t it be to not participate in escalating so their neighbours can return to their home as soon as possible...for all ‘healing’ to begin for all....

Its not just about the couple that have been robbed though. It's about all the local residents who have probably been targeted by the same burgling group in the past and likely will in the future. The flowers could be interpreted as a message .... "we are still here, and we are not going anywhere" If I were a local resident, I wouldn't want this bunch anywhere near where I lived, and there they are putting up a big sign saying ... "WE ARE HERE" I find it all rather troubling

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its not just about the couple that have been robbed though. It's about all the local residents who have probably been targeted by the same burgling group in the past and likely will in the future. The flowers could be interpreted as a message .... "we are still here, and we are not going anywhere" If I were a local resident, I wouldn't want this bunch anywhere near where I lived, and there they are putting up a big sign saying ... "WE ARE HERE" I find it all rather troubling

...hmmmm, it’s just that I haven’t seen any of those media stories though, bots...with the heightened emotions of the residents atm over the flower tributes ... there have been no words in the media from the residents of them being targeted by burgers or any ‘groups’ in the past so far as I know, I could be wrong with that...of any specific troubles the neighbourhood../..area has and has had in the leading up to this horrific thing and specifically involving the travelling community...there are no media stories of ‘intimidation’ that has or may have been felt...it’s all how the tributes are being interpreted as being ‘threatening’...

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, it’s just that I haven’t seen any of those media stories though, bots...with the heightened emotions of the residents atm over the flower tributes ... there have been no words in the media from the residents of them being targeted by burgers or any ‘groups’ in the past so far as I know, I could be wrong with that...of any specific troubles the neighbourhood../..area has and has had in the leading up to this horrific thing...there are no media stories of ‘intimidation’ that has or may have been felt...it’s all how the tributes are being interpreted as being ‘threatening’...

I don't believe for a moment that this was the first time this group burgled a house in the area, or some other area in the past. Burglary is a way of life, intimidation is a way of life, and these people know exactly what they are doing.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I don't believe for a moment that this was the first time this group burgled a house in the area, or some other area in the past. Burglary is a way of life, intimidation is a way of life, and these people know exactly what they are doing.

...but yet no ‘angered resident’ has stated that to the media in anything they’ve said with their reasoning also, so far as I can see ...that burglaries are an issue in that area...which is interesting also...actually I’m just having thoughts about the Tony Martin case...with one of the first things said there in the media...’that travellers had been a problem in the area’ leading up to...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Cherie

At least the thread has returned to talking about the particular story, rather than just an opportunity to traveller bash so that is something at least.

People dislike "travellers" for good reason

[Toy Soldier]

The police issue is complicated because while it would be great if these people would stop, the police can only act within the bounds of what is or isn't illegal. Placing flowers in public (for any reason) is not illegal, so the police can't force them to stop doing it.

Its like... I've had a few addicts fall asleep in my shop, and refuse to leave... and had to call the police for assistance. As its technically a licensed premises, the police CAN forcibly remove them from the shop, but as soon as they're a foot outside the door, they have to let them go - because they haven't actually broken any law. They usually end up passed out on the bench 3 meters from the door. Which isn't ideal, but at least it's out of the shop. But yeah my point is; until they break a law, the police can't do anything about it, sadly... So they're just trying to get it to blow over without incident.

Ifbthe residents are feeling harassed or threatened though, could they potentially apply for a restraining order or similar? Then the police can remove people who violate the order. We have a trespass order against 5 or 6 individuals. Although I'm unsure about how one gets a restraining order against several people / without knowing their names.